4 banger LC, thoughts? (1 Viewer)

[Blackwatch1]

This guy seemed to do a pretty good job explaining the difference between the LC250 and other Toyota/Lexus models. I believe he said there is no ATRAC. The LC300 has a front locker but nothing coming to America does. ATRAC was added years ago to give us a type of front locker.

Also the LC250 does not have E-KDSS or a rear sway bar disconnect. He goes over that pretty well. So a 5th gen 4Runner seems more capable off road than this LC250. More ground clearance, ATRAC and KDSS. I am no expert just putting this up for discussion.

 

[Knowbuddy]

Not to bad… yet I’d imagine Atrac is still standard.

I’m sure it can 4 wheel a bit more than a Prius

Im indifferent about multi terrain select and crawl control. They are fine and a party trick but I never used them on a 5th gen 4Runner I had for a couple of years.

 

[Knowbuddy]

This guy seemed to do a pretty good job explaining the difference between the LC250 and other Toyota/Lexus models. I believe he said there is no ATRAC. The LC300 has a front locker but nothing coming to America does. ATRAC was added years ago to give us a type of front locker.

Also the LC250 does not have E-KDSS or a rear sway bar disconnect. He goes over that pretty well. So a 5th gen 4Runner seems more capable off road than this LC250. More ground clearance, ATRAC and KDSS. I am no expert just putting this up for discussion.

I would be blown away if it didn’t have atrac. I’ll check when I see the 250 at Cruiserfest. My 2004 lx470 had it and my 2016 4Runner trial premium had it so it would be crazy for it not to. As for kdss from my 4Runner days it wasn’t worth the hassle. Have a couple buddies with lifted 4Runners that fight it. The 200 kdss is far superior. I just don’t think it’s worth the hassle. Also not every 300 comes with front and rear lockers or even kdss

 

[Land Caesar]

Rear sway is over rated

Solid stationary rear is best with disconnected front sway

There are plenty of videos on this

Yet everyone has opinions

The crawl control … yeah it’s a gimmick

 

[Land Caesar]

My real issue is trying to Over look the overall cost with high interest rates.

I could Buy a Nice used Tundra and a Four Wheel Camper… be happy.

Or this new Land Cruiser
With a nice Rtt, awning enclosed.

Only real problem is with the next decade… the damn fuel cost.

 

[Rednexus]

ATRAC and DAC are really nice. Use both all the time on my GX.

 

[Jetboy]

This guy seemed to do a pretty good job explaining the difference between the LC250 and other Toyota/Lexus models. I believe he said there is no ATRAC. The LC300 has a front locker but nothing coming to America does. ATRAC was added years ago to give us a type of front locker.

Also the LC250 does not have E-KDSS or a rear sway bar disconnect. He goes over that pretty well. So a 5th gen 4Runner seems more capable off road than this LC250. More ground clearance, ATRAC and KDSS. I am no expert just putting this up for discussion.

I don't think it's exactly apples to apples. The 4R is pretty limited by relatively short front control arms. Kdss version has more articulation than the normal suspension models, but it's still quite a bit less than the kdss lc200. The LC250 should have more travel than the lc200. So, it'll probably be quite a bit more than the 4Runner, even with kdss. Even without a rear sway disconnect. But maybe not as much as the gx550. Maybe more? Hard to know until we get our hands on them.

The LC should be a lot more buildable too. It has the equivalent of a +1.5 per side long travel on the 4R, much better gear spread on the transmission, a bigger 9.5 rear axle and 8.7(?) front diff. And it appears to fit big tires a lot easier. 35s are really challenging on a 4runner. 37s are super easy on a tundra. Hopefully it'll be like the Tundra. In my ideal world the front suspension is interchangeable with Tundra and it'll be really easy to get to 13-14" of travel and 35-37 tires.

Out of the box, it's maybe similar. But I think it will be a lot easier to build a decent trail rig.

Of course that is vs the current 4runner. The new Tacoma has everything the LC has along with better shocks and OEM off-road stuff like factory jack points in the bumper for high lift jacks. If history holds, the 4runner gets all that too. In that case it's probably the better off road model. But arguably it has been for a while. There's a lot of different types of things that make up off-road - but more technical terrain favored the old 4R in a few ways. And the LC moving to the old 4runner space opens the 4r to go a bit more enthusiast on the spectrum. Maybe it'll come with 35s factory or something more competitive with Wrangler and bronco.

 

[Land Caesar]

Does anyone really feel that this new rig will obtain approximately 27 mpg in stock form?

 

[Jstawgn]

Does anyone really feel that this new rig will obtain approximately 27 mpg in stock form?

It was listed in Toyota website accidentally. Real world result will vary by how it was driven. This was later taken out.

Off road usually would be worse than city MPG. This is where the hybrid might provide real advantage. 8 MPG might become 16 MPG off road and that is substantial gain in off road range where you are out of civilization and cannot refuel easily.

 

[Phillyd2]

Not sure if it's true but I’ve seen a couple of references that there’s only a 2 MPG increase between Hybrid and non-Hybrid versions. And more than a couple, including from Toyota engineers, that the reason for them is emissions – not increased MPG.

 

[Land Caesar]

There is a Distinct difference between the 6cyl hybrid that uses that System for Torque and the smaller 4cyl hybrid that uses it for Mpg

The real world mpg of the tundra is a little less than the sticker. (Not Offroad use)

So normal driving.. I’d imagine the new 250 should likely get 24-25 mpg? Maybe if a lite foot and normal mixed driving.

I’m aware they took the 27mpg number off the website, yet it’s been seen and referred to many times. So it hopefully is at-least…. close to that.

 

[OldCarSmell]

This guy seemed to do a pretty good job explaining the difference between the LC250 and other Toyota/Lexus models. I believe he said there is no ATRAC. The LC300 has a front locker but nothing coming to America does. ATRAC was added years ago to give us a type of front locker.

Also the LC250 does not have E-KDSS or a rear sway bar disconnect. He goes over that pretty well. So a 5th gen 4Runner seems more capable off road than this LC250. More ground clearance, ATRAC and KDSS. I am no expert just putting this up for discussion.

Toyota doesn’t indicate whether the SDM only applies to front or front and rear. Where is this guy getting his info? Anyone seen more specifics about this?

 

[elbarto]

View attachment 3413259
Toyota doesn’t indicate whether the SDM only applies to front or front and rear. Where is this guy getting his info? Anyone seen more specifics about this?

It’s the front, says in the PR.

 

[elbarto]

I don't think it's exactly apples to apples. The 4R is pretty limited by relatively short front control arms. Kdss version has more articulation than the normal suspension models, but it's still quite a bit less than the kdss lc200. The LC250 should have more travel than the lc200. So, it'll probably be quite a bit more than the 4Runner, even with kdss. Even without a rear sway disconnect. But maybe not as much as the gx550. Maybe more? Hard to know until we get our hands on them.

The LC should be a lot more buildable too. It has the equivalent of a +1.5 per side long travel on the 4R, much better gear spread on the transmission, a bigger 9.5 rear axle and 8.7(?) front diff. And it appears to fit big tires a lot easier. 35s are really challenging on a 4runner. 37s are super easy on a tundra. Hopefully it'll be like the Tundra. In my ideal world the front suspension is interchangeable with Tundra and it'll be really easy to get to 13-14" of travel and 35-37 tires.

Out of the box, it's maybe similar. But I think it will be a lot easier to build a decent trail rig.

Of course that is vs the current 4runner. The new Tacoma has everything the LC has along with better shocks and OEM off-road stuff like factory jack points in the bumper for high lift jacks. If history holds, the 4runner gets all that too. In that case it's probably the better off road model. But arguably it has been for a while. There's a lot of different types of things that make up off-road - but more technical terrain favored the old 4R in a few ways. And the LC moving to the old 4runner space opens the 4r to go a bit more enthusiast on the spectrum. Maybe it'll come with 35s factory or something more competitive with Wrangler and bronco.

The new LC is definitely a bit cozy between the GX and the 4R price wise for the only difference to be the name plate and full time 4WD.
I don’t think there’s any reason to think the 4R will follow exactly the Tacoma exactly…after all the current (2016-2023) Tacoma and 4R don’t even have the same drivetrain.
I expect the 4R will NOT get the hybrid-2.4T ( *maybe* on halo TRD Pro); instead I think the engine options will be 2.4T non hybrid and the non-turbo 2.5 hybrid. Maybe see return of MT paired with the 2.4T in TRD trim levels.

I don’t see them going after the Jeep market without a removable top with the 4R, they sell too many to soccer moms. I would expect the rumored FJ-successor to potentially have removable top so it can go after the Wrangler/Bronco.

 

[M1911]

The new LC is definitely a bit cozy between the GX and the 4R price wise for the only difference to be the name plate and full time 4WD.
I don’t think there’s any reason to think the 4R will follow exactly the Tacoma exactly…after all the current (2016-2023) Tacoma and 4R don’t even have the same drivetrain.
I expect the 4R will NOT get the hybrid-2.4T ( *maybe* on halo TRD Pro); instead I think the engine options will be 2.4T non hybrid and the non-turbo 2.5 hybrid. Maybe see return of MT paired with the 2.4T in TRD trim levels.

The 6th Gen 4Runner is not going to have a manual transmission. Neither the 4th or 5th gen offered a manual transmission.

 

[NinjahGoose]

The new LC is definitely a bit cozy between the GX and the 4R price wise for the only difference to be the name plate and full time 4WD.
I don’t think there’s any reason to think the 4R will follow exactly the Tacoma exactly…after all the current (2016-2023) Tacoma and 4R don’t even have the same drivetrain.
I expect the 4R will NOT get the hybrid-2.4T ( *maybe* on halo TRD Pro); instead I think the engine options will be 2.4T non hybrid and the non-turbo 2.5 hybrid. Maybe see return of MT paired with the 2.4T in TRD trim levels.

I don’t see them going after the Jeep market without a removable top with the 4R, they sell too many to soccer moms. I would expect the rumored FJ-successor to potentially have removable top so it can go after the Wrangler/Bronco.

The limited model 4Runners already have full time 4wD with a locking center diff.

I really believe the 6th Gen 4Runner will only offer the 2.4T. The lower trims will be the regular 2.4T with the Limited and TRD Pro getting the same hybrid from the Tacoma and LC. If Toyota shrinks the vehicle down and offers the TRD (Pro and Package) with extended control arms and long travel suspension they will bring a fight to the Bronco and Wrangler. Go look at the Bronco forums. There is constant complaints of noise, water intrusion, and vibrations on the removable top. If 4Runner can retain the roll down rear window, throw on a panoramic roof like Tundra and Sequoia, it will have that same open air vibe without the hassle.

 

[M1911]

The limited model 4Runners already have full time 4wD with a locking center diff.

I really believe the 6th Gen 4Runner will only offer the 2.4T. The lower trims will be the regular 2.4T with the Limited and TRD Pro getting the same hybrid from the Tacoma and LC. If Toyota shrinks the vehicle down and offers the TRD (Pro and Package) with extended control arms and long travel suspension they will bring a fight to the Bronco and Wrangler. Go look at the Bronco forums. There is constant complaints of noise, water intrusion, and vibrations on the removable top. If 4Runner can retain the roll down rear window, throw on a panoramic roof like Tundra and Sequoia, it will have that same open air vibe without the hassle.

I agree -- there will be no removable top on the 6th gen 4Runner.

 

[Jetboy]

The new LC is definitely a bit cozy between the GX and the 4R price wise for the only difference to be the name plate and full time 4WD.
I don’t think there’s any reason to think the 4R will follow exactly the Tacoma exactly…after all the current (2023) Tacoma and 4R don’t even have the same drivetrain.
I expect the 4R will NOT get the hybrid-2.4T ( *maybe* on halo TRD Pro); instead I think the engine options will be 2.4T non hybrid and the non-turbo 2.5 hybrid. Maybe see return of MT paired with the 2.4T in TRD trim levels.

I don’t see them going after the Jeep market without a removable top with the 4R, they sell too many to soccer moms. I would expect the rumored FJ-successor to potentially have removable top so it can go after the Wrangler/Bronco.

There's a lot of unknowns at this point because the marketing strategy is seemingly irrational. LC250 and LC300 are basically the same vehicle now. And 4Runner has historically been the same thing as the LC Prado. If 4Runner is the same thing as LC250 - why have both? Why have LC250 and LC300? At the end of the day they're all closer to different trims of the same vehicle than they are to different models. Presumably Toyota will try to differentiate the 4Runner in some way from the LC250. There's just not a lot of ways to make 2 or 3 BOF SUVs share the same rolling chassis and wagon body and still be meaningfully differentiated in the market.

4Runner currently has the most cargo room of any Toyota BOF model. And it has a 3rd row. LC250 may end up having similar or more cargo volume - but no 3rd row. Presumably that means 4Runner needs to retain the 3rd row. And that suggests to me that the 4R isn't getting smaller. On the other hand - It seems like the 4Runner should be smaller to offer something different from the LC. Otherwise - why have both? It's a coin toss to me what they do with size.

The 4Runner will almost certainly retain the limited trim that is a level of trim above any of the LC250 models that have been shown so far. Limited 4Runner is one of the most popular trims. And that will probably price it around $60k - in the mid range of the LC250, maybe near the top of LC250 trims. So, I think the 4Runner will have the same powertrain as the LC250 along with a base T4 non-hybrid just like the Tacoma. If anything, the 4Runner Limited should get the T6 to keep the third row option and have a Toyota side midsize model with the higher towing capacity.

I don't think there's ever been a time when the Tacoma had more power than the 4runner. The only time they had the same top engine was 1996-2002. For most years they were roughly similar and in some cases the top engine in Tacoma was the base engine in 4Runner. In this case - I think it'll either be T4hybrid only or T4 base and T4 hybrid option with a very very small chance of T6 top engine in Limited and TRD Pro trims. The Trail Hunter trim 4Runner is the one that I think will be nearly identical to the LC250, except probably with better suspension.

I think you're right about not going after the Wrangler/Bronco market. It's just not in Toyota's DNA to build enthusiast vehicles. And if they wanted to do that - it probably would have been the new LC nameplate. I'm mostly just spit balling on what Toyota could do to make the 4Runner unique enough to make sense in a broader market lineup. The obvious choice is to downsize it to Fortuner size and call it a day. But everything in the rumor mill is that it's merging back to be a Tacoma with extra seats - but that's pretty much what the LC250 is.

Since I'm just randomly daydreaming - it would be kinda awesome for Toyota to resurrect the TJ Cruiser into a modern Toyota version of an adventure van ready to buildout as a camp van, but with the full chassis and running gear of a long bed Tacoma Trail Hunter. Add another 8-10" in height to the roofline and use the Tacoma 130" wheelbase and have enough room for 4 seats in front and a full 7 feet behind the rear seats for camper buildout or maybe even configurable as a 7 or 9 passenger van.

 

[Jetboy]

I agree -- there will be no removable top on the 6th gen 4Runner.

Every top is removeable. Some are just easier than others.

I think you're right on this. I think the Lexus LC and the Copen GR Sport are possibly the only model in the entire Toyota universe with a removeable top. Is that right? I can't think of anything else. And it would be completely out of character for that to happen now on a 4Runner. The LC250 body design was built for a panoramic roof that would be pretty easy to modify into a removeable set of 2 panels and get close. But they didn't even do that. I'd say the chances are close to zero.

 

[Land Caesar]

I think Toyota is missing a market niche if they don’t have a removable top… like the original 4runner.

Look at all the Bronco/Jeepsters out there.

Why not collect some of them Customers along with the Karen’s and other 4runner buyers.