3B Engine manual confusion (2 Viewers)

[Felde]

Hi
I'm a bit confused on the 3B Engine Repair manuals out there. Can anybody clarify this to me?
I have a 1985 BJ73 with the first gen 3B (I think): Rounded valve cover, linear IP and separate vakuum pump, oil filter bracket 180° upright filter.
Not sure the engine is original to my truck. I never checked by engine-#, though, as I don't know the systematics or any source to check.
- Does anybody know a way to check the year of make of my engine by engine #?

I never found a 3B engine manual for around 1985-87, which would go periode with my rig.

The earliest edition I know is from August 1988: B, 3B, 11B, 14B Engine Repair Manual

TOYOTA 3B REPAIR MANUAL Pdf Download

View and Download Toyota 3b repair manual online. 3b engine pdf manual download. Also for: 11b, 14b, B.

www.manualslib.com

It is obviously for the 3B engines of generation 2, though, with the square valve cover, build-in vaccum pump and the VESP rotary IP.

Then there is a later edition from 1994 : B, 3B, 11B, 13B, 13B-T Engine Repair Manual

TOYOTA B REPAIR MANUAL Pdf Download

View and Download Toyota B repair manual online. for Land Cruiser, Dyna and Coaster. B engine pdf manual download. Also for: 3b, 11b, 13b, 13b-t.

www.manualslib.com

It is more elaborated than the 1988, but describes the linear IP only, thus appears to be for the 3B generation 1 (like my truck) again.
Apparently, this is a new edition of the (never found by me) 1985-87 and earlier edition to the generation 1 derivates of the B engine family?

Then a friend recently made me aware of a May 1995 edition: 3B, 14B, 15B-F, 15B-FT Engine Repair Manual
We found no source of a complete PDF or online version, just this classified ad for a paper book:

TOYOTA 3B, 14B,15B-F,15B-FT FACTORY DIESEL ENGINE WORKSHOP MANUAL c95 | Engine, Engine Parts & Transmission | Gumtree Australia Stirling Area - Dianella | 1309702912

Genuine Toyota 3B, 14B, 15BF and 15BFT Diesel Engine Shop Service Manual c1995 in good clean condition, I can arrange delivery, 1309702912

www.gumtree.com.au

Maybe this is a new edition to the Aug-1988 manual, covering the generation 2 derivates of the B engine family?
- Does anybody have this in electronic format? We would love to read into it.

- Are my assumptions correct concerning what latest edition covers what generation derivat?

What we where actually looking for in the manuals:
- Does the 3B generation2 have the improved pistons with piston bottom cooling (similar 13BT), that would better hold up when turboing it?
(The 3B generation 1 is known to not like being turboed, as some sad cases in this forum suggest)
(Well, this is not about to start another general "3B & turbo" discussion here, though)

Appreciate any clarification
Cheers Ralf

 

[lacalvette]

From my memories, latest edition that I know about, the one you mention 1995 cover the 3BII, parent bore bloc.
In this edition you will see piston mark 1,2 & 3.
The method to measure the piston diameter is different than previously.

If you look in the 1990 edition, the one which likely cover your 3B, there is liners.
There is no mention of piston mark 1,2 & 3, someone would say yes that because there is liners but in fact piston of that era do have marks on them??? Probably a mistake..

In the 1982 edition there is mention of piston marks for piston diameter(12,3) and piston wrist pin (1,2).

Speaking of piston I did bought the new generation 3BII by mistake (aftermarket) and I can tell you that the piston rings are different (the number 1 is similar tho)
Oil drain hole in piston under / inside oil ring landing are different (at least 3 version), con rod are different too, early one had two hole on the bottom, latest only one (for lubricating piston wrist pin)
(Not described in book)

The OEM piston do have first ring landing steel reinforcements (Alfin)

There is no oil chamber using the milkshake effect for cooling, I have no idea about 13BT, but on such small piston I doubt.
There is oil jet under it on all 3B generation

For year identification, I think there a date cast on the right side under oil pressure sender. In this 5 camshaft bearing version, late 84 and 85 have independent thread hole for engine mounts, 86 and 87 they are linked, like a block. (Hope it make sense)

1986

1985

 

[lacalvette]

And …there is marks on the bloc, one beside each cylinder. I think that there use to have two size of liners (OEM). Only one available in aftermarket.
No mention of that in 1990 but marks still present until 3BII, again it is explained in the 1982 volume

 

[lacalvette]

FAQ - DIESEL TECH FAQ

Welcome to the new FAQ section for diesel powered Toyotas and diesel swaps! With the amount of growth this forum section has seen in recent years it is time for a revamp of our FAQ section. I will endeavour to keep this updated as best as possible with your assistance, please feel free to PM...

forum.ih8mud.com

There is the 1995 along with a handful of info

 

[Felde]

@lacalvette thank you for all the explanations and details.
I had a look at my engine to do a better identification: It is a 3B gen 1. (Separate engine mount threads and all the other indications)
Engine number is 07380 / 3
(I guess it's a /. If not it's 0738013)
Anyone an idea on the year of make of thatone?

 

[lacalvette]

That the serial number and I’m not sure you can find the date there.
Beno explaine that the date is on the right side of the bloc in his thread, post #132

Builds - 1985 JDM 3B Engine Rebuild and Other Stories

Anyone have a #2 bearing cap? Literally fell apart in my hand pulling it. FML. Amazing how well the engine ran like this... :lol:

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[Felde]

Thank you, @lacalvett. Super helpful.
I found my casting date in that very spot, just under the oil pressure switch.
it reads 57 | B. That means July-2 1985, I guess.
Beno recently posted this.

Manufacture Months/Years and Frame Numbers

I am posting up pertinent production date information with frame numbers which 7x series owners can use as reference when you need parts since some parts supersede mid-month/mid-production. With this information you can even break it down further with actual day of the week your truck was...

forum.ih8mud.com

Accidentally my VIN is just a few items earlier than a VIN that is known to be item 1 from November 1st 1985. So it is safe to say my VIN was assigned October 31 1985.
That fits .

 

[Felde]

Just another question...
Legend from the PO has it that my engine should have only 120k on it.
The truck had 304k km on the odo when I got it. Now, knowing the age of the engine and knowing it is probably the originally fitted engine, this actually can't be true.
It runs very good indeed. The block is in almost fresh paint, no rust. The oilpan is a little rusty, though.

Would there be any external telltale that would make it probable this engine has been substantially overhauled?
(I know, we are getting to the glassball now...)
Thanks a lot Ralf

 

[OGBeno]

Just another question...
Legend from the PO has it that my engine should have only 120k on it.
The truck had 304k km on the odo when I got it. Now, knowing the age of the engine and knowing it is probably the originally fitted engine, this actually can't be true.
It runs very good indeed. The block is in almost fresh paint, no rust. The oilpan is a little rusty, though.

Would there be any external telltale that would make it probable this engine has been substantially overhauled?
(I know, we are getting to the glassball now...)
Thanks a lot Ralf

Look to see if it has a MLS head gasket vs. a composite/graphite head gasket.

 

[lacalvette]

I’m not sure but I think on new manufactured engine gaskets are quite flush with engine parts whereas aftermarket usually protrude a lot. As for paint, I’m a bit confuse, in Australia , seem pre88 3B where red and 3BII where blue. Some here in Canada said they were grey. Mine came from Europe with his rust patina…
people usually paint the engine after everything is back together, so gasket are painted, look specially oil cooler and timing gear cover. Toyota didn’t paint aluminum parts.
I think all fuel injection pipe were zinc (yellow color) plated. If they are painted, something changed.

If you remove your valve cover, you may have a look at heads number, in that 1985 version, it should ends with 12, maybe 13 but not 10,11 neither 14 (not an exact science)
There was a rocker arms model for 85/86 maybe 87 (I can check 87 if needed) but were different before and after.
In 85 the oil pan had a bead of liquid gasket (if there is a lot, maybe not Toyota), not cork. This 85/86…oil pan did not have a strip of metal to reinforce the flange.
Is there punched mark where inj pump match with the cover.
With your phone, you may try to picture the crankshaft bolt in the front pulley, it is usually hard to remove and an impact driver leave marks on the bolt head.
If one day you remove the oil pan, usually people punch con rod as mark.

If the freeze plug on the bloc looks new and the bloc itself have some rust pitting…or the plugs have a brand name on it…

On your picture with date number, the oil sensor is the one for the EDIC. I don’t recall if mine came like this ( Europe spec don’t have an oil pressure gauge) but I think it is the oil pressure sensor for the cluster gauge location. The EDIC should be on the oil cooler. (Not saying that it need to be change, just looking for signs…)

Along with the MLS gasket for head and exhaust manifold (like Beno mentioned) there is not many signs that can lead to suspect the engine was opened.

 

[Felde]

Thank you for all those hints.
I inspected the engine some further:
My block is grey. For it's age, the paint looks quite good ; little rust. On some oil pipes LH close to the block, one can see they have been on when the block was sprayed as the paint didn't get between block and pipe too much (shade effect).
The cover plate for the big opening over the oil cooler was also sprayed with the block.
Oil cooler, gear cover and all pipes and aluminium pieces are not sprayed.
The head gasket appears to be compound and does not protrude. It is has been sprayed over with the block.
The head on top doesn't look like it has been sprayed. Hard to tell with the manifolds on, but I guess there is some overspray on the bottom of the head. Looks like the block was sprayed with the head on.
No bolt head shows any marks: Not the Crankshaft bolt, not the head bolts. All evenly covered in surface rust.
The manifold gaskets are newish.
The glow plugs are new. Oil switches are new.
Injector screws are evenly oxidized and show no scratches.
Oilpan is evenly surface rusted (I probably should conserve it a bit) and has a liquid seal, with little excess. The material looks light grey and is not silicone.
I myself changed the coolant hoses (were hard and brittle) and waterpump two years back. It was original and obviously had never been removed. It was same color like the block.
All flex oil pipes are old, the fabric-braided style. The vacuum pipes also look old.
Well, I'd say: This engine is as original as it can be.
Probably the attaching parts had been removed at some long ago point, the accessories outer seals replaced and the block sprayed, but the head has never been removed. All was reassembled the original way, and obviously quite carefully.
Only wearing parts have been replaced.
And somebody did a gorgeous job in timing and adjusting this engine.

That figured: I'm amazed how good this engine runs at its age and how good its condition is.
I have no compression data, though.
No leaks, no smoke, starts on two revs.
Fingers crossed it stays that way for long.
Cheers Ralf

Head gasket under intake manifold

Head gasket from above, front left corner, near water outlet

 

[Felde]