- Thread starter
- #21
I am tending to agree with lovetoski about the skinny vs. thick. That is also why I am hesitant to go 32x11.5 as much as I really want a 32" tire. That being said, I imagine both skinny and fat have advantages.
33x9.5 or 32x10.5 AT other than BFG (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Marc311
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chris777
TLCA member #12444
You make a good point about the drag racers. Although I have noticed that the top fuel eliminators tires get awfully tall and skinny when they stomp on the gas.
But as far as airing down your tires. From what I have heard and read and believe, airing down the tires causes the tires to be much much more pliable. Witih an underflated tire, the tires really molds itself to every crook, cranny and imperfection in rocks roots, etc. I am of the mind that this ability of the tire to mold its shape to what is underneath it, gives it the increase traction, muhc more so than because of the slight increase of the width for flotation. the reason we have all gone to tubeless tires in mountain biking is so that we can air down our tires to 25 lbs or 30lbs. We do that so the tire will mold its shape the the surface it is trying to eek out traction on, in a difficult climb.
I definitely agree with the skinny tires being able to cut through the thin sheets of water on the highway. Wider tires will surf.
but hey, I respect your opinion. It has always been an interesting discussion.
I know this. I am a novice and a newbie when it comes to offroad skills. But last march, on my newbie run at Roundup, I was the only one in my group to make it up Hummer Hill with ease, and I think it was because everyone else had big wide tires.
Now here is what I do NOT like about my skinny tires. 33 x 15 x 9.5 do not corner as well. They have too much sidewall flex. I am more cautious now when I take high speed curves. And another thing, the 12 inch tires are always going to look better. I've got to hand you that.
On the other hand, I have heard that 12 inch wide tires drift on the highway so you are having to steer more. The skinier tires just have more bite then, too.
But as far as airing down your tires. From what I have heard and read and believe, airing down the tires causes the tires to be much much more pliable. Witih an underflated tire, the tires really molds itself to every crook, cranny and imperfection in rocks roots, etc. I am of the mind that this ability of the tire to mold its shape to what is underneath it, gives it the increase traction, muhc more so than because of the slight increase of the width for flotation. the reason we have all gone to tubeless tires in mountain biking is so that we can air down our tires to 25 lbs or 30lbs. We do that so the tire will mold its shape the the surface it is trying to eek out traction on, in a difficult climb.
I definitely agree with the skinny tires being able to cut through the thin sheets of water on the highway. Wider tires will surf.
but hey, I respect your opinion. It has always been an interesting discussion.
I know this. I am a novice and a newbie when it comes to offroad skills. But last march, on my newbie run at Roundup, I was the only one in my group to make it up Hummer Hill with ease, and I think it was because everyone else had big wide tires.
Now here is what I do NOT like about my skinny tires. 33 x 15 x 9.5 do not corner as well. They have too much sidewall flex. I am more cautious now when I take high speed curves. And another thing, the 12 inch tires are always going to look better. I've got to hand you that.
On the other hand, I have heard that 12 inch wide tires drift on the highway so you are having to steer more. The skinier tires just have more bite then, too.
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ok, in water it is not the width but the engineering of the tire that makes them good or bad. a lot of audi's around here run wide tires, but their summer tires are designed to force the water out from the center of the tire, so that the rubber contacts the road. I could show you a 7 inch wide tire that is worse in the rain than my 33x12.50 BFG's. Its in the engineering.
The pressure in your tire is the pressure of the air in the tire, and this doesn't change whether the weight is on the car, or not. so the comparison of weight to psi is not exactly a valid one. I also do not believe that the contact path will be any longer because the contact length has to do with the diameter of the tire and the deformation of the tire due to weight on it, tire psi, sidewall construction etc. etc.
as for top fuel drag racers tires getting skinny when they gas on it. Thats centrifugal force, same thing that keeps our tires clean in the mud. They run low enough pressure and the tires are soft enough that the mass wants to head away from the center.
And tubeless on the mountain bikes. The idea behind this initially was to lose the weight of the tube. I've been mountain biking for years, never with tubeless and don't think I will go tubeless. I wouldn't want to run my tires at that low of a pressure anyway because you lose a lot of the handling characteristics. Also, I have never not been able to make it up a climb due to lack of traction, and haven't seen many instances, except on wet trails, where traction really becomes an issue.
The pressure in your tire is the pressure of the air in the tire, and this doesn't change whether the weight is on the car, or not. so the comparison of weight to psi is not exactly a valid one. I also do not believe that the contact path will be any longer because the contact length has to do with the diameter of the tire and the deformation of the tire due to weight on it, tire psi, sidewall construction etc. etc.
as for top fuel drag racers tires getting skinny when they gas on it. Thats centrifugal force, same thing that keeps our tires clean in the mud. They run low enough pressure and the tires are soft enough that the mass wants to head away from the center.
And tubeless on the mountain bikes. The idea behind this initially was to lose the weight of the tube. I've been mountain biking for years, never with tubeless and don't think I will go tubeless. I wouldn't want to run my tires at that low of a pressure anyway because you lose a lot of the handling characteristics. Also, I have never not been able to make it up a climb due to lack of traction, and haven't seen many instances, except on wet trails, where traction really becomes an issue.
chris777
TLCA member #12444
well tubless mountain bike setups weigh MORE, not less. Because the tire has to be made non-porous, hence thicker, hence heavier. The reason to ride tubless is NOT to save weight. Otherwise, the road bike riders would be running them. I think that the leak stop fluid you use in tubeless mountain bike tires also adds up to more weight than the equivalent in tubes.
With a tubless mountain bike tire, you can run at lower pressure WITHOUT fear of getting pinch flat. The only reason you have to run 50 or 60 lbs in a tubed mountain bike tire, is because anything less will give you a pinch flat. A pinch flat is caused by the rim biting into the inner tube when the tire hits an obstruction like a rock.
oh, and I am of the opinion that those wide tires usually have "water pumping tread designs" to compensate for their distinct disadvantage in trying to cut through sheets of water on highways.
I have sometimes, I have wondered, if drag racers count on that centrifugal force to optimize the width (narrow them) of their tires and get more traction. However, there are a lot of drag racers with wide tires that don't become very skinny upon hard starts, so I have to admit that there is something to your point about this particular use of wide tires. Not sure what else is in play here that I am not thinking of.
With a tubless mountain bike tire, you can run at lower pressure WITHOUT fear of getting pinch flat. The only reason you have to run 50 or 60 lbs in a tubed mountain bike tire, is because anything less will give you a pinch flat. A pinch flat is caused by the rim biting into the inner tube when the tire hits an obstruction like a rock.
oh, and I am of the opinion that those wide tires usually have "water pumping tread designs" to compensate for their distinct disadvantage in trying to cut through sheets of water on highways.
I have sometimes, I have wondered, if drag racers count on that centrifugal force to optimize the width (narrow them) of their tires and get more traction. However, there are a lot of drag racers with wide tires that don't become very skinny upon hard starts, so I have to admit that there is something to your point about this particular use of wide tires. Not sure what else is in play here that I am not thinking of.
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I am running the BFG 33x9.5, probably will go with 10.5 as they were less last time than the 9.5's and hopefully corner a little better, the Cooper brand caught my eye, not sure what sizes they are selling. Toyo's are spendy and I don't think the come in the narrow widths. Just for fun, go squeeze some sidewalls, I have punctured sidewall and tread in the BFG's and the are really kind of soft.
Look at tractor truck tyres...
Yeah what about them?
If you look at a drag tire as they are doing a burn out it gets taller and skinnier. So when the drag car launches it has a wide tire and gets more traction. As it speeds up the tire gets taller and skinnier, thus enabling the car to go faster because the gearing changes while reducing friction by having a skinnier tire.
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- Thread starter
- #28
235x85 R16 tires will give you about a 32 x 9.5 tire. Of course you will need 16" rims. A bonus I guess is that every tire shop carries these in the USA and they usually have a 10 ply side wall. $145 each at costco in the BFG AT's. I'm still looking for the right 16" rims.
-Wyo
-Wyo
Of course. That's why I said "all things being equal" at the beginning. There are lots of variables in tires, my point was (and still is) that IF you limit to just the variable of tire width, then wet weather performance gets better.
I introduced the vehicle weight and tire pressure to illustrate that regardless of tire size, for a given weight/pressur, contact patch size is the same (in sq inches). It doesn't matter what the weight and pressure actually are, what's important is that IF they are kept constant then the contact patch size is also constant. The change is the shape of the contact patch. All contact patches are ovals. For a given weight/pressure, a narrower tire must have a longer/narrower contact patch. Said another way, a contact patch is limited in width to the width of the tire. Narrower tire = narrower contact patch. In order to keep the contact patch the same in area, it must be longer.
I noticed the same thing about my 9.50's. It was especially aggravating when aired down. On road, I compensated by raising the tire pressure to ~40-45psi. It helped a lot.
chris777
TLCA member #12444
oh, really! wow. that is a lot of pressure. and you experience no bad side effects? that would help your mileage too. I run mine at 38lbs. I thought that was high. you don't get a lot of wheel hop?
If I remember correctly (check your sideway to make sure) the max pressure on the 33X9.50 is 50psi. Ride is harsher. But with a lifted suspension I don't think it was a big deal. The center of the tire wore more quickly. I don't think it helped my milage though...it was still lousy!
i am running my 33x9.5's at 50 psi no deflection when cornering , air down when off road !
We run BFG32/11.50R15A/T on my mothers Daily drive (hj60) She drives 35 miles back and forth to work(highway and some back-roads), and the A/T's have been the best all-round setup for us yet. They are fairly cheap and durability is high.
My mother is small 62year old woman, and she leaves for work at about 5 in the morning. In the winter, that is BEFORE the snowplow.
So I would never put tyres on her car I would not trust 100%
She had a Mitsubishi Pajero before the HJ60, and we kept the 31" snow-tires, because we thought they would be needed for the HJ60. But it have never been a issue.
My mother is small 62year old woman, and she leaves for work at about 5 in the morning. In the winter, that is BEFORE the snowplow.
So I would never put tyres on her car I would not trust 100%
She had a Mitsubishi Pajero before the HJ60, and we kept the 31" snow-tires, because we thought they would be needed for the HJ60. But it have never been a issue.
