305/65/18s on +20mm Success!!!

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Wow, some great looking rigs! @19LC200 those Ray10s on that grey body look awesome! I am glad others are seeing similar results and are happy with the size. I think the scale is visually perfect; well balanced.

I'm getting ready to decide between 275/70/18 or go bigger with the 305 for my lx570 on Ray 10's and curious how this size is holding up. Any issues stuffing the tire yet?

No issues yet on rubbing, although admittedly my off roading has been pretty mild. I do think my new tires wander a bit more at speed. I don't know if that is the Wildpeaks or the size, but something is different. Not awful, but doesn't seem to track quite as well vs my 275/70/18 KO2s. That said, I do think the flex on the Wildpeaks is a bit softer, which I believe is a good thing.

My only current issue is that with my ski rack on the factory crossbars, I brush the weather seal pulling into my garage. That means I am exactly 7'-0 at 35psi. If someone has a low garage or needs to get into a parking structure, it might become relevant. Would be sweet to have an LX's low mode for loading up the skis.
 
No issues yet on rubbing, although admittedly my off roading has been pretty mild. I do think my new tires wander a bit more at speed. I don't know if that is the Wildpeaks or the size, but something is different. Not awful, but doesn't seem to track quite as well vs my 275/70/18 KO2s. That said, I do think the flex on the Wildpeaks is a bit softer, which I believe is a good thing.

This wouldn't be unexpected on account of 2 things:
  1. Scrub radius. The +20 offset of the Fuel wheels is into the aggressive range of offset. Said another way, it's not really ideal and puts the scrub radius geometry outside of proper geometry. For a 33.5" diameter tire, it should be something like 45mm. Pulling and tracking stability, especially under power, braking, or road irregularities are classic symptoms of this.
  2. Wider tires. In general, wider tires will tramline and wander more than a narrow tire. As the tire is wider, road irregularities has more leverage on the tire at it's outermost/widest points, causing this.

That said, it's a combination of the 2 things that are contributing to your impressions. If it were just one or the other, likely not a problem as other people running 275 on +20 offsets have reported. I likewise run a 305 wide tire, yet with 35mm offset and experience no pulling.
 
Wow, some great looking rigs! @19LC200 those Ray10s on that grey body look awesome! I am glad others are seeing similar results and are happy with the size. I think the scale is visually perfect; well balanced.



No issues yet on rubbing, although admittedly my off roading has been pretty mild. I do think my new tires wander a bit more at speed. I don't know if that is the Wildpeaks or the size, but something is different. Not awful, but doesn't seem to track quite as well vs my 275/70/18 KO2s. That said, I do think the flex on the Wildpeaks is a bit softer, which I believe is a good thing.

My only current issue is that with my ski rack on the factory crossbars, I brush the weather seal pulling into my garage. That means I am exactly 7'-0 at 35psi. If someone has a low garage or needs to get into a parking structure, it might become relevant. Would be sweet to have an LX's low mode for loading up the skis.

Any time you go to a much wider tire, it will feel that way at first. When I first put 35’s on (12.5” width), that was my initial impression on the highway too. That was WITHOUT spacers.

Last Summer, I added .75” spacers, and it actually handles better, squeals less (or not at all), and just feels more planted. That’s in combo with Rock Warriors which slightly widen stance by 10mm each corner as well.

IF you were in stock wheels...
Do the math on .75”+10mm (RW wheels sit 10mm outward) and I’m at 29.05mm wider than stock....compared to 31.75mm farther outward that a 1.25” spacer adds.

In other words...if you are on stock wheels, we are running almost exactly the same change to stance... My +29.05mm vs. your 31.75mm.

So on you +20 fuels... taking the spacers out will put you back to just 9mm farther out than mine...which might be perfect since you may need help clearing your KDSS.

My prediction is you will soon find that sense of wandering dissipates. Meanwhile...make sure alignment is good & that you run street pressures as recommended by @gaijin -our psi guru.
 
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Any time you go to a much wider tire, it will feel that way at first. When I first put 35’s on (12.5” width), that was my initial impression on the highway too. That was WITHOUT spacers.

Last Summer, I added .75” spacers, and it actually handles better, squeals less (or not at all), and just feels more planted. That’s in combo with Rock Warriors which slightly widen stance by 10mm each corner as well.

IF you were in stock wheels...
Do the math on .75”+10mm (RW wheels sit 10mm outward) and I’m at 29.05mm wider than stock....compared to 31.75mm that a 1.25” spacer adds on 60mm offset stock wheels.

In other words...if you are on stock wheels, we are running almost exactly the same change to stance... My +29.05mm vs. your 31.75mm.

So on you +20 fuels... taking the spacers out will put you back to just 9mm farther out than mine...which might be perfect since you may need help clearing your KDSS.

My prediction is you will soon find that sense of wandering dissipates. Meanwhile...make sure alignment is good & that you run street pressures as recommended by @gaijin -our psi guru.

“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” - Daniel Moynihan

Proper offset is correlated with overall tire diameter. You're forgetting that for 35s, optimal offset are lower than someone running a 33.5" tire. Or 31" tire. So your original 50mm offset was wrong for a 35. and ~29mm far more correct.

Approximate ideal offsets, tire diameter vs offset:
31.5" = ~60mm (stock)
32.7" = ~50mm (rock warrior with 285/65r17)
33.5" = ~42mm (projected)
34.5" = ~32mm (projected)

For someone running a 33.5" tire, 20mm is out of spec. Hence the pulling.
 
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” - Daniel Moynihan

Proper offset is correlated with overall tire diameter. You're forgetting that for 35s, optimal offset are lower than someone running a 33.5" tire. Or 31" tire. So your original 50mm offset was wrong for a 35. and ~29mm far more correct.

Approximate ideal offsets, tire diameter vs offset:
31.5" = ~60mm (stock)
32.7" = ~50mm (rock warrior with 285/65r17)
33.5" = ~42mm (projected)
34.5" = ~32mm (projected)

For someone running a 33.5" tire, 20mm is out of spec. Hence the pulling.

You'll have to choose one of the following, but what you have written is incorrect:

32.7" = ~50mm (Rock Warrior with LT285/70R17)
-or-
31.6" = ~50mm (Rock Warrior with LT285/65R17)

Which did you mean?

TIA
 
This wouldn't be unexpected on account of 2 things:
  1. Scrub radius. The +20 offset of the Fuel wheels is into the aggressive range of offset. Said another way, it's not really ideal and puts the scrub radius geometry outside of proper geometry. For a 33.5" diameter tire, it should be something like 45mm. Pulling and tracking stability, especially under power, braking, or road irregularities are classic symptoms of this.
  2. Wider tires. In general, wider tires will tramline and wander more than a narrow tire. As the tire is wider, road irregularities has more leverage on the tire at it's outermost/widest points, causing this.

I definitely hear what you guys are saying about the wider tires, and I think that is definitely at play. The idea of scrub radius is also an interesting one, so thanks for bringing that up. I wasn't familiar with that term, so I did a bit more reading.


I now understand what you are saying. But now I have a few questions...

Do we really know what "proper" offset is? I know we started with +60 and 31.5" wheels, but what criteria was Toyota trying to adhere to? How sensitive is the LC to being slightly out of optimal? Another site I read talked about cars in the old days commonly had 4" of positive scrub radius. In this case I am NOT running spacers, so my tire diameter is .4" larger (.2" radius) and my +20 vs your +35 is .6". Now, admittedly, that does increase the positive scrub radius, but very little. So, is it enough to really matter? I honestly don't know, but my intuition says it shouldn't. If I look at the symptoms of too much positive scrub radius (pulling under braking), I don't seem to have them.

Please believe I am not pushing this because I want to prove anyone wrong. I want to understand this. I understand the math, but I don't know the real world implications. I also don't want people reading this thread to take as gospel that +20 is bad but +35 or +25 is okay, if it really doesn't matter. I could certainly be wrong, but my intuition says that this is not the case here.

Honestly, I think the real reason from my tracking is too much bounce due to my suspension... still haven't solved that one yet (lack of time).
 
I definitely hear what you guys are saying about the wider tires, and I think that is definitely at play. The idea of scrub radius is also an interesting one, so thanks for bringing that up. I wasn't familiar with that term, so I did a bit more reading.


I now understand what you are saying. But now I have a few questions...

Do we really know what "proper" offset is? I know we started with +60 and 31.5" wheels, but what criteria was Toyota trying to adhere to? How sensitive is the LC to being slightly out of optimal? Another site I read talked about cars in the old days commonly had 4" of positive scrub radius. In this case I am NOT running spacers, so my tire diameter is .4" larger (.2" radius) and my +20 vs your +35 is .6". Now, admittedly, that does increase the positive scrub radius, but very little. So, is it enough to really matter? I honestly don't know, but my intuition says it shouldn't. If I look at the symptoms of too much positive scrub radius (pulling under braking), I don't seem to have them.

Please believe I am not pushing this because I want to prove anyone wrong. I want to understand this. I understand the math, but I don't know the real world implications. I also don't want people reading this thread to take as gospel that +20 is bad but +35 or +25 is okay, if it really doesn't matter. I could certainly be wrong, but my intuition says that this is not the case here.

Honestly, I think the real reason from my tracking is too much bounce due to my suspension... still haven't solved that one yet (lack of time).

Exactly.

My last post was trying to suggest same idea. I’m more interested in acceptable ranges. Happy to look at the rough math, but so many other factors mean more, and while 1-2mm debates may be a fun chat at the math conference, on the trail...pfft.

If I go and add preload to my front coilovers right now...my track width at rest will marrow as I push my LCAs downward. Same thing happens constantly as we drive, corner and articulate. It moves up-outward, or down/inward. A couple mm with all of that other movement is sorta silly to stew over. Acceptable range is the goal. Not decimal points after mm.
 
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I definitely hear what you guys are saying about the wider tires, and I think that is definitely at play. The idea of scrub radius is also an interesting one, so thanks for bringing that up. I wasn't familiar with that term, so I did a bit more reading.


I now understand what you are saying. But now I have a few questions...

Do we really know what "proper" offset is? I know we started with +60 and 31.5" wheels, but what criteria was Toyota trying to adhere to? How sensitive is the LC to being slightly out of optimal? Another site I read talked about cars in the old days commonly had 4" of positive scrub radius. In this case I am NOT running spacers, so my tire diameter is .4" larger (.2" radius) and my +20 vs your +35 is .6". Now, admittedly, that does increase the positive scrub radius, but very little. So, is it enough to really matter? I honestly don't know, but my intuition says it shouldn't. If I look at the symptoms of too much positive scrub radius (pulling under braking), I don't seem to have them.

Please believe I am not pushing this because I want to prove anyone wrong. I want to understand this. I understand the math, but I don't know the real world implications. I also don't want people reading this thread to take as gospel that +20 is bad but +35 or +25 is okay, if it really doesn't matter. I could certainly be wrong, but my intuition says that this is not the case here.

Honestly, I think the real reason from my tracking is too much bounce due to my suspension... still haven't solved that one yet (lack of time).

Likewise, I'm not looking to prove anyone wrong, rather I'm more interested in discussing the tech behind it. Like anything, there's many factors at play. Is something enough of a concern to pay attention to or address, that is always open to ones interpretation and even I'll take liberty on things in my own modifications. Yet some of these things are firmly understood with real implications. The degree of which may or may not matter to the individual depending on driving style and tolerance. OEMs do sweat these details.

To answer your questions:
1) Do we really know what "proper" offset is? I know we started with +60 and 31.5" wheels, but what criteria was Toyota trying to adhere to?

Yes, we can assume that stock is proper to the suspension design. The other data point I'm using is the Rock Warrior wheels at 50mm offset, designed for a 32.7" tire (@gaijin keeps reminding me that I scramble my numbers on, thanks!). The 50mm offset there is not by chance. From there, we can linearly interpret for larger tire diameters. This picture should help and is the literal depiction of why it is what it is.

1904871


If one increases the tire diameter, you can see that the zero scrub radius intersection point won't be at the contact patch of the tire. And one should push the tire further away from the chassis to meet that point again. That intersection point is important as that's the design point at which forces on the tire will minimize steering feedback, ie pulling on the steering wheel. It's also important to turning traction and handling. In a tight turn, tires will scrub (hence "scrub radius"), i.e. squealing in a parking lot). There's more, but I won't go farther than this, and there's plenty of documentation out there.

2) How sensitive is the LC to being slightly out of optimal? Another site I read talked about cars in the old days commonly had 4" of positive scrub radius.

Not as sensitive as passenger cars, and especially not like sports cars. 4" doesn't mean anything as that was integral to the design of that particular vehicle. Trucks/SUVS naturally are setup to greatly reduce feedback. Otherwise off-road, the steering would be kicking back hugely on every bump. But it also depends on ones driving style. The harder one drives, the greater the forces at the tire. Bigger forces, greatly reduced, may still result in kickback or pulling at the steering wheel. So when one says they have no symptoms, it may also be they drive like a granny or cannot perceive it. In suspensions, everything is a convolution too. Simplifying the discussion too much dismisses that alignment, caster, tires, conditions, can all contribute or help the situation.

3) In this case I am NOT running spacers, so my tire diameter is .4" larger (.2" radius) and my +20 vs your +35 is .6". Now, admittedly, that does increase the positive scrub radius, but very little. So, is it enough to really matter? I honestly don't know, but my intuition says it shouldn't. If I look at the symptoms of too much positive scrub radius (pulling under braking), I don't seem to have them.

My setup does indeed have too much scrub radius by ~10mm. Yours is off by ~22mm.
Marcuson inadvertently noticed .75" (19mm). I notice 10mm, but I drive hard and tracked sports cars in a previous life with lots of wheel offset combinations so I know what it feels like. I've considered going down to .75"spacer to optimize my setup, but am staying with 1" spacer adapters as they are stronger and safer for towing heavy, and I'm okay with the minimal symptoms.

4) If I look at the symptoms of too much positive scrub radius (pulling under braking), I don't seem to have them.

Note that it will pull only when forces are not equal between tires. Braking, and hitting a rut or bump on one side. It's when forces are unequal, that the pulling is more pronounced than they would otherwise be with proper offset.


Hope that helps. Getting to "proper" in not important as long as it works for you.


*Note that all these specific numbers only apply to pre-'16 models. The suspension upright (and geometry) was slightly changed on later model years. Yet the general trends are the same.
 
This guy does an awesome job explaining -
 
?
Man, only a math hobbyist cares on the trail.
I was simply describing pushing wheels outward, and by how much.

My wheels are moved outward with a given spacer whether 35’s are mounted...or a rubber band is mounted. :)

You are applying a tire size formula.
I wasn’t going there. I was simply talking relative extent to which rims get push outward compared to stock w/o spacers... no matter what’s rubber get put on them.

In my personal example of “35’s” I simply was noting the adjustment outward that I have found best. Formalize as you please. I was simply talking pushing wheels outward.

I get it. You are most comfortable with formulas, and I think you thought we were describing the same thing. I don’t think we were.

Ima go test my just-adjusted compression and rebound on my rear struts in a sec...no formulas required. ;)

I think you would hate the adjusters on them. Hehe -They are completely devoid of numbers—just a little arrow pointing to a point on a sloping shape from short to tall.
Here’s a puzzle for you: :)

Two 2008 land cruisers:
-Same wheels
-Same spacers/or not
-Same exact tires

If you know one truck’s stance (by that I mean track width form outer edge to outer edge of tread touching the road.

Are our stances the same?

Almost surely not.
Because front preload, weight, and the changing angle of the lower control arms are going to move the tires inward or outward a fair bit depending on factors that change regardless of identical tires, wheels.

So to me? I honestly think a ~1mm difference is pretty silly to even debate. Because the LCA angles are going to move tires inward or outward quite a bit more than that not only at rest via preload, but in constant change in the road or trail as those LCA and CV angles bounce all over the place through their own ever-moving arc.

So to me? Let’s talk when we are in a good RANGE. 1 or 2mm? Man, it’s maybe fun for you, but on the trail? -Unless it’s the difference between rubbing or not, it’s just not gonna make any discernible difference.

Our focus is different.
That’s ok.


Ummmmmmm... I think you misunderstood my post - it had nothing to do with what you posted. I was simply pointing out that @TeCKis300 scrambled a couple of numbers which could have been confusing.

Carry on.
 
Ummmmmmm... I think you misunderstood my post - it had nothing to do with what you posted. I was simply pointing out that @TeCKis300 scrambled a couple of numbers which could have been confusing.

Carry on.

Oh dear. I completely misread the flow of that post. Not intended for you at all. Didn’t event realize you had posted.

In my reader, it seemed that message was not from you, and it seemed to be a strange continuation of prior comments by others. Seemed weird, and now I see why.

@gaijin. that was my goof up and confusion... a random comment from one conversation was mistaken for part of another.

I’m sorry.
 
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The other data point I'm using is the Rock Warrior wheels at 50mm offset, designed for a 32.7" tire

Great information and explanation! Also, the RW comparison is the piece I was missing (gives us an assumed slope). I am still unclear if this is truly making a difference in my case, but it could be contributing, so great information to have. I have been reading 4wd threads for years and somehow this is the first time scrub radius has come up. I did see that you have posted this several times in the past, so thanks for your patience as I catch up. I will be interested to see the difference as I work through some of my other suspension issues.

Interestingly, the tire size/wheel combo that Icon gives on their site is 34" tires on a +25->+30 wheel. Not that they are a de facto standard, but they do seem to design suspension "systems", instead of just parts... and while slightly out of spec, it does seem to fit your logic.

1905138
 
I’m going back and forth whether to go down to LT295/70/18 or LT305/65/18 on Cooper AT3 from my current 35/12.5/18 KO2 with on current Method MR310 con6 +18 offset. They barely rub now. I would just like to increase my MPG a little more. Thoughts?
 
I’m going back and forth whether to go down to LT295/70/18 or LT305/65/18 on Cooper AT3 from my current 35/12.5/18 KO2 with on current Method MR310 con6 +18 offset. They barely rub now. I would just like to increase my MPG a little more. Thoughts?

The 305s would only shave off about 5lbs. per tire, and hardly be more narrow, thus not doing much.
295s are taller than the 305s but the more narrow patch may help. Hard part is finding a light tire. For example a set of Wildpeaks weighs more than your 35s....so likely no savings there.

A more narrow tire will yield better MPGs, but weight can be a big impact as well. In the end youll probably save like 1/2 MPG by changing tires. You're going to have to come up with a better excuse to buy new rubber than that!
 
The 305s would only shave off about 5lbs. per tire, and hardly be more narrow, thus not doing much.
295s are taller than the 305s but the more narrow patch may help. Hard part is finding a light tire. For example a set of Wildpeaks weighs more than your 35s....so likely no savings there.

A more narrow tire will yield better MPGs, but weight can be a big impact as well. In the end youll probably save like 1/2 MPG by changing tires. You're going to have to come up with a better excuse to buy new rubber than that!
I am just considering which size to drop down for when my tires are toast. I certainly would like a lighter weight tire but not give up durability. The cooper AT3 XLT is most likely my next tire. I already have a 295/70/18 as a spare but can trade it back. I would consider a 275/70/18 but it might look skinny on my wheels.
 
I am just considering which size to drop down for when my tires are toast. I certainly would like a lighter weight tire but not give up durability. The cooper AT3 XLT is most likely my next tire. I already have a 295/70/18 as a spare but can trade it back. I would consider a 275/70/18 but it might look skinny on my wheels.


Yeah its always hard to balance the best look with the best overall size / usability.

On my FJ I just went from 295/75 to 255/85s. (same dia. just skinnier) They are about the same weight though. I am fine with the skinny look, the MPG difference will be negligible, but the driveability with the skinnier tire is much much improved, so I am happy with the tradeoff.
 
Likewise, I'm not looking to prove anyone wrong, rather I'm more interested in discussing the tech behind it. Like anything, there's many factors at play. Is something enough of a concern to pay attention to or address, that is always open to ones interpretation and even I'll take liberty on things in my own modifications. Yet some of these things are firmly understood with real implications. The degree of which may or may not matter to the individual depending on driving style and tolerance. OEMs do sweat these details.

To answer your questions:
1) Do we really know what "proper" offset is? I know we started with +60 and 31.5" wheels, but what criteria was Toyota trying to adhere to?

Yes, we can assume that stock is proper to the suspension design. The other data point I'm using is the Rock Warrior wheels at 50mm offset, designed for a 32.7" tire (@gaijin keeps reminding me that I scramble my numbers on, thanks!). The 50mm offset there is not by chance. From there, we can linearly interpret for larger tire diameters. This picture should help and is the literal depiction of why it is what it is.

View attachment 1904871

If one increases the tire diameter, you can see that the zero scrub radius intersection point won't be at the contact patch of the tire. And one should push the tire further away from the chassis to meet that point again. That intersection point is important as that's the design point at which forces on the tire will minimize steering feedback, ie pulling on the steering wheel. It's also important to turning traction and handling. In a tight turn, tires will scrub (hence "scrub radius"), i.e. squealing in a parking lot). There's more, but I won't go farther than this, and there's plenty of documentation out there.

2) How sensitive is the LC to being slightly out of optimal? Another site I read talked about cars in the old days commonly had 4" of positive scrub radius.

Not as sensitive as passenger cars, and especially not like sports cars. 4" doesn't mean anything as that was integral to the design of that particular vehicle. Trucks/SUVS naturally are setup to greatly reduce feedback. Otherwise off-road, the steering would be kicking back hugely on every bump. But it also depends on ones driving style. The harder one drives, the greater the forces at the tire. Bigger forces, greatly reduced, may still result in kickback or pulling at the steering wheel. So when one says they have no symptoms, it may also be they drive like a granny or cannot perceive it. In suspensions, everything is a convolution too. Simplifying the discussion too much dismisses that alignment, caster, tires, conditions, can all contribute or help the situation.

3) In this case I am NOT running spacers, so my tire diameter is .4" larger (.2" radius) and my +20 vs your +35 is .6". Now, admittedly, that does increase the positive scrub radius, but very little. So, is it enough to really matter? I honestly don't know, but my intuition says it shouldn't. If I look at the symptoms of too much positive scrub radius (pulling under braking), I don't seem to have them.

My setup does indeed have too much scrub radius by ~10mm. Yours is off by ~22mm.
Marcuson inadvertently noticed .75" (19mm). I notice 10mm, but I drive hard and tracked sports cars in a previous life with lots of wheel offset combinations so I know what it feels like. I've considered going down to .75"spacer to optimize my setup, but am staying with 1" spacer adapters as they are stronger and safer for towing heavy, and I'm okay with the minimal symptoms.

4) If I look at the symptoms of too much positive scrub radius (pulling under braking), I don't seem to have them.

Note that it will pull only when forces are not equal between tires. Braking, and hitting a rut or bump on one side. It's when forces are unequal, that the pulling is more pronounced than they would otherwise be with proper offset.


Hope that helps. Getting to "proper" in not important as long as it works for you.


*Note that all these specific numbers only apply to pre-'16 models. The suspension upright (and geometry) was slightly changed on later model years. Yet the general trends are the same.

What size tires would you recommend for my Method wheels 18x9 +18offset?At some point down the road, I’ll change them out to an ICoN wheel as I had no idea a +18 offset isn’t ideal for the LC.
 
... I had no idea a +18 offset isn’t ideal for the LC.

The Icon wheels are +25, so going from +18 to +25 is only a .276" delta. I might do it for the looks (I do agree the Icon are good looking wheels), but it may not be worth it for the negligible difference is offset. Ultimately, I don't think you will feel the difference. I run +20 and for fun put on 1.25" spacers, for a total of -11.75 offset. I do think I noticed a difference in tracking on uneven or rutted dirt, but I noticed no discernible degradation in tracking during braking . It may have felt a tad bit more floaty during acceleration at higher speeds 75+, but I could be making that up.

Either is within reasonable range, especially with larger > 33" tires.
 
What size tires would you recommend for my Method wheels 18x9 +18offset?At some point down the road, I’ll change them out to an ICoN wheel as I had no idea a +18 offset isn’t ideal for the LC.

It's not a straightforward answer as it's going to depend on what compromises you're willing to accept.

IMO those wheels, because of the 18mm offset, are the root of your issues and why I believe you're trying to find a better compromise. It might seem like a minor thing to the 25mm offsets that others are making work. The impact is not really linear. 25mm is already a compromise. 18mm only further exacerbates the issues.

I believe you said you have 35s now? Perhaps even keep the 35s and get some wheels in the 25-35mm range?

Many have reported 34s in 285/70r18 to be a great option.

I just got back from a long weekend off-road trip. I do notice even my 34mm offset being outside of optimal. Especially when putting the hammer down with throttle. Towing my large travel trailer. Or gunning the sand wall at Superstition Mountain. The steering pulls due to uneven ground or traction. (See video in post #34 above)
 
The Icon wheels are +25, so going from +18 to +25 is only a .276" delta. I might do it for the looks (I do agree the Icon are good looking wheels), but it may not be worth it for the negligible difference is offset. Ultimately, I don't think you will feel the difference. I run +20 and for fun put on 1.25" spacers, for a total of -11.75 offset. I do think I noticed a difference in tracking on uneven or rutted dirt, but I noticed no discernible degradation in tracking during braking . It may have felt a tad bit more floaty during acceleration at higher speeds 75+, but I could be making that up.

Either is within reasonable range, especially with larger > 33" tires.
The Icon wheels are +25, so going from +18 to +25 is only a .276" delta. I might do it for the looks (I do agree the Icon are good looking wheels), but it may not be worth it for the negligible difference is offset. Ultimately, I don't think you will feel the difference. I run +20 and for fun put on 1.25" spacers, for a total of -11.75 offset. I do think I noticed a difference in tracking on uneven or rutted dirt, but I noticed no discernible degradation in tracking during braking . It may have felt a tad bit more floaty during acceleration at higher speeds 75+, but I could be making that up.

Either is within reasonable range, especially with larger > 33" tires.

I’m going to test fit a 285/70/18 RG and 295/70/18 AT3 XLT this week. I think the 285 might be narrow on my 18x9 wheel since it has bead lock ring which might not have enough scrub protection. My 34.5x12.50 float on highway now and don’t like that feeling. I can tell my truck fights a little keeping it straight. I wonder if the 305 would be pretty much the same.
 
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