3” vs 2.5” Lift Questions

[OleSip]

Hello all! Just wanted to start by thanking everyone for their contributions to the forum! I’ve learned quite a bit lurking for last year and a half or so. I look forward to continuing that process as I move forward with different mods. Sorry if this post seems redundant, but while I’ve found plenty of info on 2”-2.5” lifts, I haven’t found much in the way of 3” lifts. I’m guessing that may be due to the added costs and additional work entailed. So herein lies my main question. What all extra is involved in lifting a GX470 3” as opposed to lifting it 2.5”?

I have a 2007 GX470. Currently bone stock other than my TRD Pro 4Runner wheels and 265/70R17 Nitto Ridge Grapplers.

Please feel free to ask questions if I did not provide enough info. Thanks to those able and willing to provide help!

 

[ebbs15]

I think, at 3 you must do a UCA... 2.5 you can get away with the stock UCA, but it's still not recommended. I'm about to do the Dobinson 3" IMA lift as soon as the container ship arrives from Australia. I did get a new panhard bar, but it wasn't a requirement. I do still need to buy extended sway bar links, but that's not "required" to install the lift, just to get full travel out of the 3". (note, I didn't do long travel, as that requires new upper and lower links, and is more than I want to mess with)

 

[HomersCanyonero]

Think about the geometry and components of the suspension.

It seems that the stock suspension components can handle a 2” lift via new shocks and springs. And 2” is a misnomer since the rear is taller than the front by 3/4” or so from factory.

This means that raising the front 2.25” only requires a 1.5” lift in the rear to level the truck. So, sometimes you are not raising the front and the rear the same amount.

In either case, lifting the truck changes the geometry and the distance of hoses and sway bars and end links.

So, the higher the lift, the more impact on brake lines, sway bars, end links, tie rods, panhard bar, front UCAs, etc. You have to see how the geometry changed and get it back to normal in order to avoid vibrations, limited articulation, bad tracking, wheel alignment issues, etc.

2” seems to be tolerable without many changes, but 3” will require more changes.

 

[OleSip]

Think about the geometry and components of the suspension.

It seems that the stock suspension components can handle a 2” lift via new shocks and springs. And 2” is a misnomer since the rear is taller than the front by 3/4” or so from factory.

This means that raising the front 2.25” only requires a 1.5” lift in the rear to level the truck. So, sometimes you are not raising the front and the rear the same amount.

In either case, lifting the truck changes the geometry and the distance of hoses and sway bars and end links.

So, the higher the lift, the more impact on brake lines, sway bars, end links, tie rods, panhard bar, front UCAs, etc. You have to see how the geometry changed and get it back to normal in order to avoid vibrations, limited articulation, bad tracking, wheel alignment issues, etc.

2” seems to be tolerable without many changes, but 3” will require more changes.

Exactly! That’s why I’m asking what extra is involved. I fully expect to be doing UCAs. But beyond that I wasn’t sure if I needed longer travel CVs, brake lines, etc.. Just trying to get as much info as I can from those who may have done it. Thanks for the input! You’re line of thinking is exactly what I’m looking for.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

Oh and I feel I improved the articulation/flex in the rear with minimal extended travel components. I got about 2.25” lift in rear with full tank and my tools in the rear. No additional weight.

1. Dobinson long-travel (LT) variable rate coils c59-675v
2. Icon MT LT rear shocks 56550
3. 4R rear end links that are 1” longer
4. Extended rear brake lines

front raised about 2.25” with Bilstein 6112s and TC UCAs.

I cancelled my rear lower link order. 13 weeks since ordering and no delivery. I called credit card to dispute charge since vendor didn’t reply to my last inquiry.

so rear and front with minimal changes. Everything else in suspension is stock. Stock CVs too, but then again you are seeking to go higher.

 

[OleSip]

I think, at 3 you must do a UCA... 2.5 you can get away with the stock UCA, but it's still not recommended. I'm about to do the Dobinson 3" IMA lift as soon as the container ship arrives from Australia. I did get a new panhard bar, but it wasn't a requirement. I do still need to buy extended sway bar links, but that's not "required" to install the lift, just to get full travel out of the 3". (note, I didn't do long travel, as that requires new upper and lower links, and is more than I want to mess with)

Dobinson is one of the main companies I’m looking at through this process. I expect I’ll be speaking with Mr. Fogle before too long. Just wanted to get some input before I got with him. I’m guessing IMAs are maybe the adjustable version of IMS line? Let me know what you think. I’m highly interested in feed back on that line.

 

[ebbs15]

Dobinson is one of the main companies I’m looking at through this process. I expect I’ll be speaking with Mr. Fogle before too long. Just wanted to get some input before I got with him. I’m guessing IMAs are maybe the adjustable version of IMS line? Let me know what you think. I’m highly interested in feed back on that line.

sorry I'm doing the IMS, not IMA my bad IMS are the non res version of the IMA. I got mine through Apache offroad. Brennan is a good dude and very helpful.
hit him up on their facebook via messanger he's pretty quick usually (though he did just get a shipment of 460 Dobinson stuff so might be swamped with that)

Apache Offroad

Apache Offroad. 13,335 likes · 21 talking about this. Apache Offroad is a Manufacturer and Retailer of Offroad & Overland Parts.

www.facebook.com

 

[se7enine]

I'm also waiting for those Dobinsons to arrive.

 

[CarolinaGX]

The shock lengths are suited for a particular lift. At 3" in the rear, I would suggest looking into LT shocks or there would be very little droop left in the standard lift shocks. At over 3" in the front, I would consider LT control arms or similar because the ball joints will begin to reach their maximum pivot angle at full droop (I haven't tested this). As previously mentioned, consider the suspension geometry and its designed range of operation.

I am ~2.7"F/2.0"R and I am happy with how it performs on and off-road. The biggest limiting factor, beyond the nut behind the wheel, is the low fuel tank. #ineedskidplates

 

[MaverickFiveO]

For the record, there is a similar situation with tires. It seems like stock is okay (relatively speaking) up to 275/70/R17 sizes, depending on brand. Suddenly, at 285/70/R17, you rub in 3 different places and need lower offset wheels, a BMC, and a rear tire carrier just to get that extra 0.6". I feel like if I'm going to go down that road, I'm going to way down that road to 35" tires or something, to make it worth it... which is why I'm planning to stop at a 2" lift and 32" tires.

 

[GXO]

If you have to ask, it may not be for you. There is a LOT to do in order to run a bigger lift and 35s successfully. You can do it cheap, but don't expect perfection. UCAs will be needed no question above 2" technically. Keep in mind most GXes stock are older and settled. When I lifted mine I went up 5.5"!!! on a 2.5" lift. It resulted in new patterns of wear in the CVs (that eventually failed), lots of rubbing and new geometry. Be prepared!

 

[ebbs15]

Vlad brings up a good point, be prepared for the lift to be MORE than you expect, even when settled. I know my GX sits a little lower in the front than some and hire than some gx's I've parked next to (total of like 5) all stock. so a 3" lift will net more gain on the one that started the lowest. They'll all end up the same given the same components, wheels, and tires. I went with 3 because I want to run 285/75/17's (34's) and wanted a little more clearance as I went with softer springs/valving.

We'll see if it works, or not. I know I've still got work ahead of me with a BMC and a BFHlol



But you may not need a 3. I'd look at some 2.5 build threads and get their ground to fender measurements, and compare. is that .5 what you want?

 

[OleSip]

If you have to ask, it may not be for you. There is a LOT to do in order to run a bigger lift and 35s successfully. You can do it cheap, but don't expect perfection. UCAs will be needed no question above 2" technically. Keep in mind most GXes stock are older and settled. When I lifted mine I went up 5.5"!!! on a 2.5" lift. It resulted in new patterns of wear in the CVs (that eventually failed), lots of rubbing and new geometry. Be prepared!

I can imagine that it's more than most driveway guys can handle, but to your point that's mostly why I'm asking because if it does go well beyond my needs and budget; then maybe I'd stick with a 2.5". Just making sure I have a clear understanding of what is involved before I move forward, while playing the long game versus doing it again in a few years. I am fortunate enough to have access to a garage, lift, and two skilled mechanics to help with the job. I just want to make sure I know what parts I need so I can do the proper research and make sure I'm set and ready once it's go time. For example, I've seen info that talks about diff drops, but then contradicting information that says they are unnecessary. This is the kind of info I'm looking for. Are there people you'd recommend speaking with? I started this post mostly so I wasn't monopolizing someones time and I could gain multiple perspectives on the job, but it's looking like I may need to speak with Kyle Fogle or the guys at Apache Offroad (since I'm strongly considering a Dobinson set up). I'm not looking to go cheap or necessarily go with 35s. Just looking to do it right. Thanks for the info Dan! Your wisdom is always appreciated and valued!

 

[OleSip]

Vlad brings up a good point, be prepared for the lift to be MORE than you expect, even when settled. I know my GX sits a little lower in the front than some and hire than some gx's I've parked next to (total of like 5) all stock. so a 3" lift will net more gain on the one that started the lowest. They'll all end up the same given the same components, wheels, and tires. I went with 3 because I want to run 285/75/17's (34's) and wanted a little more clearance as I went with softer springs/valving.

We'll see if it works, or not. I know I've still got work ahead of me with a BMC and a BFHlol



But you may not need a 3. I'd look at some 2.5 build threads and get their ground to fender measurements, and compare. is that .5 what you want?

I like it! Will do!

 

[MaverickFiveO]

I can imagine that it's more than most driveway guys can handle, but to your point that's mostly why I'm asking because if it does go well beyond my needs and budget; then maybe I'd stick with a 2.5". Just making sure I have a clear understanding of what is involved before I move forward, while playing the long game versus doing it again in a few years. I am fortunate enough to have access to a garage, lift, and two skilled mechanics to help with the job. I just want to make sure I know what parts I need so I can do the proper research and make sure I'm set and ready once it's go time. For example, I've seen info that talks about diff drops, but then contradicting information that says they are unnecessary. This is the kind of info I'm looking for. Are there people you'd recommend speaking with? I started this post mostly so I wasn't monopolizing someones time and I could gain multiple perspectives on the job, but it's looking like I may need to speak with Kyle Fogle or the guys at Apache Offroad (since I'm strongly considering a Dobinson set up). I'm not looking to go cheap or necessarily go with 35s. Just looking to do it right. Thanks for the info Dan! Your wisdom is always appreciated and valued!

I think you're on the right track talking to Treaty Oak or Apache. Since few manufacturers (or none?) make a suspension kit for 3+", you will end up cobbling together a kit from a number of manufacturers, and mixing suspensions can be wonky sometimes. I feel like your best bet is to simply talk to someone experienced with it to put together the most coherent kit possible. For example, I have read the same conflicting info about diff drops, but I've also read the caveat that you need a diff drop unless you run a high-angle CV, so it seems like whether or not you need one can be related to what other components you are running. Having a coherent kit can solve that issue.

 

[Jstawgn]

The 6" FJ bracket lift fits if you got to go taller. 2" is optimal with stock geometry and standard travel shocls.. 3" is good if you go midtravel upgrade.

At 3" the front CV are already binding up at full extensions.

 

[GXO]

I can imagine that it's more than most driveway guys can handle, but to your point that's mostly why I'm asking because if it does go well beyond my needs and budget; then maybe I'd stick with a 2.5". Just making sure I have a clear understanding of what is involved before I move forward, while playing the long game versus doing it again in a few years. I am fortunate enough to have access to a garage, lift, and two skilled mechanics to help with the job. I just want to make sure I know what parts I need so I can do the proper research and make sure I'm set and ready once it's go time. For example, I've seen info that talks about diff drops, but then contradicting information that says they are unnecessary. This is the kind of info I'm looking for. Are there people you'd recommend speaking with? I started this post mostly so I wasn't monopolizing someones time and I could gain multiple perspectives on the job, but it's looking like I may need to speak with Kyle Fogle or the guys at Apache Offroad (since I'm strongly considering a Dobinson set up). I'm not looking to go cheap or necessarily go with 35s. Just looking to do it right. Thanks for the info Dan! Your wisdom is always appreciated and valued!

I put on a 2" to start. Then went up from there over a period of years. I would budget CVs into whatever you do. You will either have grooves worn in the stock geometry, a boot that blows when you lift, or both. The drop bracket keeps it stock geometry to minimize that, but then you are using old CVs. If you do new high angle boots and new CVs with a lift it won't have a problem. I haven't needed a diff drop on any of my lifts, including the one I have now. Most of the time, people crank the preload up on the front vs using the right spring front and rear (corner balance) and it messes up stuff.

 

[crikeymike]

I think, at 3 you must do a UCA... 2.5 you can get away with the stock UCA, but it's still not recommended. I'm about to do the Dobinson 3" IMA lift as soon as the container ship arrives from Australia. I did get a new panhard bar, but it wasn't a requirement. I do still need to buy extended sway bar links, but that's not "required" to install the lift, just to get full travel out of the 3". (note, I didn't do long travel, as that requires new upper and lower links, and is more than I want to mess with)

This is true, you'll need UCA's to correct for caster and also to clear the coil springs at full articulation too. Pretty much all aftermarket UCA's achieve this, but some also have adjustability built into them in the ball joint.

If you have KDSS, you won't be extending any links. If it's a standard sway bar model, then you can add extended length links to set the sway bar back to a more standard operating position which also frees it up to do its job better.

The standard for 3" on the front is new UCA's, longer travel struts and suitable coils to suit your loads and desired lift height. Stock brake lines aren't affected in the front.

For the rear, running long travel rear shocks does require extra parts and is more than most people need, especially if they don't get offroad too much and really need the extra suspension travel.

Dan is right, old CV's and CV boots that are used to working in their standard range of motion will get pretty pissed off and quickly with a new lifted height, so be prepared for some maintenance on those before too long.

 

[OleSip]

Ah yeah! Now we're getting the juices flowing! Thanks @Vlad! CVs have been on my radar as a result of info gathering on here and GXOR, but it's good to hear a confirmation. I think RCVs are a little over the top for what I'm going for at this time, maybe a little further down the road. I'm guessing the CVJs with the silicone boots would be good 2"-2.5" lift, then the long travels on 3"+? @crikeymike you bring up some important info I left out, I apologize. I do not hav KDSS, so extended sway bar links will be added to my list. Do you recommend any particular ones? I'm also curious if Icon Delta Joint UCAs are that much better than the Dobinson UCAs considering the price difference? I'm hoping that my stock LCAs with only 50,000 miles will work, just one less thing to get. I'm mostly considering most of the Dobinson line, although I have no clue what springs rates I need to consider. I can say I do love the factory rake, I know I'm probably in the minority considering current trends. I also have a local guy that I like a lot that deals with Icon. As for how I plan on using the vehicle, it will mostly be a daily driver. Beyond that it would be used in a more overland capacity. Not really looking to go rock crawling, but want to be prepared for a rougher portion of an intermediate trail. More likely to do a trailer than a RTT. Thanks for everyone's input! This is great!

 

[crikeymike]

Ah yeah! Now we're getting the juices flowing! Thanks @Vlad! CVs have been on my radar as a result of info gathering on here and GXOR, but it's good to hear a confirmation. I think RCVs are a little over the top for what I'm going for at this time, maybe a little further down the road. I'm guessing the CVJs with the silicone boots would be good 2"-2.5" lift, then the long travels on 3"+? @crikeymike you bring up some important info I left out, I apologize. I do not hav KDSS, so extended sway bar links will be added to my list. Do you recommend any particular ones? I'm also curious if Icon Delta Joint UCAs are that much better than the Dobinson UCAs considering the price difference? I'm hoping that my stock LCAs with only 50,000 miles will work, just one less thing to get. I'm mostly considering most of the Dobinson line, although I have no clue what springs rates I need to consider. I can say I do love the factory rake, I know I'm probably in the minority considering current trends. I also have a local guy that I like a lot that deals with Icon. As for how I plan on using the vehicle, it will mostly be a daily driver. Beyond that it would be used in a more overland capacity. Not really looking to go rock crawling, but want to be prepared for a rougher portion of an intermediate trail. More likely to do a trailer than a RTT. Thanks for everyone's input! This is great!

The Dobinsons rear sway bar links have been great, and never had to warranty one for any sort of failure either.

Front LCA's, no reason to change out those in my opinion. Nor the rears, since it's a daily driver.

Factory CV's with high clearance boots would be fine and not as expensive as some of the other options you listed.

I think the Delta joint's selling point is that they are rebuildable, but has anyone ever rebuilt them? A ball joint should last a really long time anyway. Changing out a ball joint like the Dobinsons ones doesn't take long at all, doesn't cost much, and shouldn't need to be done for more than 50,000 miles. You won't get a better ride or better wheel alignment if you go with Icon or Dobinsons UCA's, since they achieve the same thing - adding caster for wheel alignment on a lifted vehicle and also a better range of motion while staying clear of the coil springs.