2x 200 series Transmission Issue?! (1 Viewer)

[du5tmang]

Hello,

This is my first post and coming out of straight disbelief. I own (2) 200 series. A 2008 (145,000mi) and a 2010 (95,000mi). About a year ago at 135,000mi the 2008 started shuddering/jerking at speed on the highway, it would go away and come back. Finally the check engine light came on and a dealer said it was the transmission. We took it to a second dealer and they told us the same thing, and that the transmission had to be replaced. I took it to a transmission guy and he told me the same thing so I had it replaced. Now a year later the 2010 is starting to do the very same thing. Shuddering and Jerking on highway over 65mph, but then I’ll slow down and it will go away again. No check engine light on yet but I’m about to take it in to get looked at and I fear it’s going to have to same diagnosis….

Has anyone ever had this issue? It seems very strange to have happened 2x with 2 different 200 series with fairly different mileage….

The only similarity is that I had recently installed the same Dobinsons 2” lift kit within months before the issue started.

Appreciate any help anyone may have!

 

[mcgaskins]

Did either recently have the transmission serviced - fluid drain/refill or flush?

 

[TeCKis300]

What are the odds of having lightning hit the same place twice. Too much of a coincidence. Somethings gotta bring them together.

Are you using them in any particular manner that may be hard on the transmission? Off-road, towing, low speed crawling? Leaning on the torque converter in high load situations without using low range?

What's the previous service history on the trannies? Did you service them with the same shop? What kind of fluid did they uses?

 

[du5tmang]

Did either recently have the transmission serviced - fluid drain/refill or flush?

Not by me. Bought them both used. Not sure maintenance history previously.

 

[du5tmang]

What are the odds of having lightning hit the same place twice. Too much of a coincidence. Somethings gotta bring them together.

Are you using them in any particular manner that may be hard on the transmission? Off-road, towing, low speed crawling? Leaning on the torque converter in high load situations without using low range?

What's the previous service history on the trannies? Did you service them with the same shop? What kind of fluid did they uses?

Not using them in any way out of the ordinary. Both are daily drivers that get used as camp / surf vehicles on weekends with light off roading.

I bought them both used and no clue on prior service history. The 2008 had 115,000 on it when I bought and has been serviced at Pepboys and the 2010 was in Mint condition with 85,000 on it when I bought it and also serviced at Pepboys.

Looking down the barrel of a 2nd $4500 tranny replacement.

 

[99toylc]

Pepboys is not the place I would imagine my 200 series being serviced at... transmission wise.

What was the point of failure in the 200 #1?
Was it ever determined?

Also what kind of trans fluid was used by Pepboys??

 

[linuxgod]

As @99toylc notes, if Pep Boys did a transmission service at 85k miles, I would be curious what's on the receipt.

First thing I'd do is check the transmission fluid level. That's easy... just needs to be within a specific temperature range and then you pull the overflow and make sure fluid is at that level. Assuming it is, I'd have all 13 quarts of the transmission fluid drained and replaced with new Toyota ATF WS. My dealer charges ~$250 for that. Your transmissions are not high mileage so unless they're being seriously abused they should go 300k miles (or more). My hope would be that Pep Boys used the wrong fluid, and it's degraded to that point that things aren't engaging like they should, but hopefully has not seriously damaged the transmission.

Reach out to Blackstone and get an oil analysis kit. When you have the fluid replaced, have the dealer capture some and then send it in for analysis. I don't have any great LX/LC/Tundra/Sequoia oil analysis handy but a quick search shows these two, one of which is in Russian but is a virgin oil analysis (new oil) and has the english symbols for the elements and the other is a used oil analysis from a Tacoma but using the same fluid. The numbers between them look pretty similar between new and 79k miles, so I would expect your numbers to come out similar, save for any evidence of clutch pack/torque converter wear. If your oil analysis is waaaay off I'd question whether Pep Boys used the right fluid and if not I'd be in touch with corporate.

AISIN ATW+ synthetic WS compatible ATF

Anyone analyzed the WS compatible synthetic transmission fluid from AISIN. Its called ATW+ compatible with WS ATF and many more. The Russian oil forums have some good info and discussions regarding this oil. It seems the kinematic viscosity seems to be a tad higher. I am replacing the fluid on...

bobistheoilguy.com

UOA Toyota WS ATF 2016 Tacoma 2.7 4cyl AC60E Trans. 79k miles on fluid

Hey all! First UOA post here. Dealer did a drain and fill at 60k miles. Drained fluid looked bright red and awesome. Truck sees on-road use only. Short daily trips of 3 to 4 miles with longer trips on the weekends. Entire trans holds 9.1 quarts. 2.5 quarts drained. Truck shifts amazingly smooth...

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[TeCKis300]

^ What he said. The type of fluid Pepboys used would be very high on my list as potential culprits. IMO, nothing but Toyota WS ATF.

 

[du5tmang]

Pepboys is not the place I would imagine my 200 series being serviced at... transmission wise.

What was the point of failure in the 200 #1?
Was it ever determined?

Also what kind of trans fluid was used by Pepboys??

I live in Puerto Rico… we don’t have many options here outside of rando garages

 

[AnyMal]

I will say the transmission is the one place i think this platform has next to zero issues. At least in the AF60 for now.
Highly suspicious that both yours have gone and were serviced at the same place.

Im not sure what a dobinsons suspension could induce on the transmission if that was indeed the fault.
Did the original Trans replacement fix the issue on the first one and it has not returned?

 

[99toylc]

I understand your geographical dilemma, but just like mentioned above it's not that difficult to do a proper trans fluid change with the wealth of knowledge here.
Hopefully it's not too late for the 200 #2. My advice would be to order WS trans fluid from toyota and change it.

Cheers !

 

[linuxgod]

I live in Puerto Rico… we don’t have many options here outside of rando garages

Can you order some Toyota ATF WS (or Amsoil or another actual ATF WS-equivalent oil)?

The actual fluid exchange isn't that hard, there are videos online of how to do it. You basically get the transmission up to ~110F, you put a paper clip into the transmission thermostat to hold it open, then you disconnect the transmission drain line and shift gears until you dump 3 quarts of fluid. Turn it off, add 3 quarts, repeat 3 or 4 more times. A decent mechanic at a rando shop should be able to do this procedure.

My thought is that PB used an older non-synthetic fluid in the transmission. Found this on the internets... Note that T-III and T-IV which is used in older Toyota transmission is thicker and not compatible with ATF WS, so if PB used T-IV (which might be readily available in Puerto Rico) that could definitely be a problem. Whether or not it's an irreversible issue I can't say.

 

[du5tmang]

I will say the transmission is the one place i think this platform has next to zero issues. At least in the AF60 for now.
Highly suspicious that both yours have gone and were serviced at the same place.

Im not sure what a dobinsons suspension could induce on the transmission if that was indeed the fault.
Did the original Trans replacement fix the issue on the first one and it has not returned?

Yeah, no issues after the tranny was replaced on the ‘08….

Can you order some Toyota ATF WS (or Amsoil or another actual ATF WS-equivalent oil)?

The actual fluid exchange isn't that hard, there are videos online of how to do it. You basically get the transmission up to ~110F, you put a paper clip into the transmission thermostat to hold it open, then you disconnect the transmission drain line and shift gears until you dump 3 quarts of fluid. Turn it off, add 3 quarts, repeat 3 or 4 more times. A decent mechanic at a rando shop should be able to do this procedure.

My thought is that PB used an older non-synthetic fluid in the transmission. Found this on the internets... Note that T-III and T-IV which is used in older Toyota transmission is thicker and not compatible with ATF WS, so if PB used T-IV (which might be readily available in Puerto Rico) that could definitely be a problem. Whether or not it's an irreversible issue I can't say.

View attachment 3318645

Thank you for this. After some work I found the Toyota ATF WS at a Toyota parts store, and will share everything here with the transmission guy and do a flush and replace the fluid. Hopefully it works. I’ll let you know.

 

[du5tmang]

Hello all, news on the 2010. The transmission guy says a shifting drum got stuck with oil sludge and burnt the thing up.

Says he will have to rebuild it….

So is this an affect of poor maintenance, wrong ATF, or what?

 

[bloc]

Hello all, news on the 2010. The transmission guy says a shifting drum got stuck with oil sludge and burnt the thing up.

Says he will have to rebuild it….

So is this an affect of poor maintenance, wrong ATF, or what?

My bet is wrong ATF. I can remember 2-3 true 6-spd transmission failures on this forum in five years of very frequent browsing, thousands of people posting. And a bunch of those are neglected, without proper maintenance.. the fluid may be old, but it’s the correct stuff.

They are basically bulletproof, as Mal pointed out.

 

[du5tmang]

Well apparently I am the first person in human kind to purchase (2) 200 series with failing transmissions at or under 100k…. Everything else I’ve bought or owned in Puerto Rico is falling apart too… guess it’s the price you pay to live on the beach… FML….

 

[99toylc]

I bet it was a wrong fluid since both trucks were serviced by Pep Boys and the result is identical in both cases.

No reason to beat yourself up - s*** happens... live and learn not to trust places that should stick to oil changes on basic rides.

 

[du5tmang]

I bet it was a wrong fluid since both trucks were serviced by Pep Boys and the result is identical in both cases.

No reason to beat yourself up - s*** happens... live and learn not to trust places that should stick to oil changes on basic rides.

. Yeah except this will be a ~$6000 beating once it’s all said and done

 

[99toylc]

Yes that will hurt, but after the wound is healed you Will have a truck that will last decades and provide ear to ear grins daily - Cheers !!

 

[AnyMal]

Well apparently I am the first person in human kind to purchase (2) 200 series with failing transmissions at or under 100k…. Everything else I’ve bought or owned in Puerto Rico is falling apart too… guess it’s the price you pay to live on the beach… FML….

It's the price you pay just to be alive these days.
FTFY

Sorry for the trouble though... Many people have felt the heavy hand of incompetent work here. And don't feel too bad, dealers will screw you too.
Find a good shop, and maybe they can prove pepboy negligence. I know its a lot of trouble to fight things, but as the resident Petty King, I fight until my last breath.
Thats the world we live in unfortunately, completely devoid of integrity. You have to escalate everything to point of self harm and toxicity.
Everyone is strictly self serving, and from the broke to the rich, both will embarrass themselves over negligible amounts of money.
Pepboys can afford to pay, specially on failure #2.