Nope, the same problem persists in 12HT too, which is equipped with oil squirts... IMO the problem lies in piston design (non-reinforced top ring groove), which can be fixed by obtaining reinforced pistons...
2h ring failure, causes?
- Thread starter Frosty2086
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Nope, the same problem persists in 12HT too, which is equipped with oil squirts... IMO the problem lies in piston design (non-reinforced top ring groove), which can be fixed by obtaining reinforced pistons...
- Thread starter
- #22
Crushers, Blis and Greg, or anyone else for that matter!
Do either of you know a good thread on putting piston skirt cooling into a 2H? All i have found is that it is not normally done, but would be very interested in doing it if possible.
The new pistons will be reinforced (Alfin pistons)
Sleeving is a possibility, i was going to leave that decision up to the experts at the machine shop. When they call to say what needs doing i will discuss it with them!
Cheers for the in put!
Frosty
Do either of you know a good thread on putting piston skirt cooling into a 2H? All i have found is that it is not normally done, but would be very interested in doing it if possible.
The new pistons will be reinforced (Alfin pistons)
Sleeving is a possibility, i was going to leave that decision up to the experts at the machine shop. When they call to say what needs doing i will discuss it with them!
Cheers for the in put!
Frosty
I dont know of how to do it other then some intricate machining. If you want to keep your piston cooler try ceramic coating them. It is surprisingly cheap. I have never seen a failed reinforced ring land on our engines.
- Thread starter
- #24
Hey guys,
Been a bit quite on the engine front, i have just been squirreled away in the shed late into the evening cleaning. The machinist finally got back to me on Monday...the verdict.
Head is OK - no cracks, all valves are ok
Block will be taken to 40 thou oversize. Total damage should be between $700-800 bucks for a reconditioned head, bored, honed and faced block. Seems pretty good to me, but im no expert in these things. I am budgeting more like $1000 for the work...
I have ordered all the parts to fit the engine from engines Australia....parts are
Total was around $1270. Very happy with the service/advice these guys have offered, supposedly it will turn up tomorrow (overnight delivery) which would be awesome!
So, i should have my block back mid/late next week, will drop in my crank as it needs a speedy sleeve on the output oil seal surface.
Fuel pump will be going to the re builders, which should be around $1000 for pump and injectors.
That leaves me at around $3270, which will probably be more like $3.5 once i get some coolant, oil, filters belts etc.....
Im hoping to setup a time lapse video of the re-construction, i will put some pics up once i have the block back!
Cheers
Frosty
Been a bit quite on the engine front, i have just been squirreled away in the shed late into the evening cleaning. The machinist finally got back to me on Monday...the verdict.
Head is OK - no cracks, all valves are ok
Block will be taken to 40 thou oversize. Total damage should be between $700-800 bucks for a reconditioned head, bored, honed and faced block. Seems pretty good to me, but im no expert in these things. I am budgeting more like $1000 for the work...
I have ordered all the parts to fit the engine from engines Australia....parts are
- New rocker arms x 12
- New pistons & rings with alfin inserts and pins/bushes
- All bearings and seals
- Full welch plug kit
- New glow plugs
- New valve lifters
- New valve seals
- New valve guides
- New pre combustion chamber
Total was around $1270. Very happy with the service/advice these guys have offered, supposedly it will turn up tomorrow (overnight delivery) which would be awesome!
So, i should have my block back mid/late next week, will drop in my crank as it needs a speedy sleeve on the output oil seal surface.
Fuel pump will be going to the re builders, which should be around $1000 for pump and injectors.
That leaves me at around $3270, which will probably be more like $3.5 once i get some coolant, oil, filters belts etc.....
Im hoping to setup a time lapse video of the re-construction, i will put some pics up once i have the block back!
Cheers
Frosty
Repco in Townsville have done blocks this way with the 2H. Can't remember what their machine shop changed their name to just now, think Repco every where did this also. The block is turned upside down and bored for the squirter's. The one I saw looked like it had that spot machined where the squirter was seated. The Boss machinist did not want to disclose the exact angle it was bored at, which I appreciated. It looks exactly as the 12HT is done. Some of the builders around here seem to think it is not necessary as many turbo 2H motors have very high miles to their credit.Crushers, Blis and Greg, or anyone else for that matter!
Do either of you know a good thread on putting piston skirt cooling into a 2H? All i have found is that it is not normally done, but would be very interested in doing it if possible.
The new pistons will be reinforced (Alfin pistons)
Sleeving is a possibility, i was going to leave that decision up to the experts at the machine shop. When they call to say what needs doing i will discuss it with them!
Cheers for the in put!
Frosty
Should be good with the Alfin type pistons, wise choice by you. Genuine gaskets are best but cost. Best to check out the oil pump for tolerance as sometimes they are a bugger to prime up on start up. They can certainly cause some grief. Good Luck.
- Thread starter
- #26
Cheers BBD for the info on machining. As i will not be turboing this motor (i just want reliable, im in no rush on the road!) i dont think i will bother with the piston skirt oiling. But it is interesting to know it can be done.
Any tips on getting the oil pump primed? Im guessing it will involve a lot of cranking the engine? Their are so many little things you dont think about with mechnical items! I just hope i dont stuff anything major up!
A question now for people regarding painting...i am using POR15 Engine Enamel (Alkyd paint i assume) on the block and am just wondering about the inspection covers on the LHS of the engine. Should i clean and paint the inside of these, or leave them the factory black?
My dilema is will the paint peel and flake into the engine, but i am concerned as when i took the gaskets off a little bit of the black paint came with it....my current thought is to clean and paint all outside surfaces. Leave inside stock, with bare metal if i loose paint while cleaning the gasket off...any one have any thoughts on this?
Cheers
Frosty
Any tips on getting the oil pump primed? Im guessing it will involve a lot of cranking the engine? Their are so many little things you dont think about with mechnical items! I just hope i dont stuff anything major up!
A question now for people regarding painting...i am using POR15 Engine Enamel (Alkyd paint i assume) on the block and am just wondering about the inspection covers on the LHS of the engine. Should i clean and paint the inside of these, or leave them the factory black?
My dilema is will the paint peel and flake into the engine, but i am concerned as when i took the gaskets off a little bit of the black paint came with it....my current thought is to clean and paint all outside surfaces. Leave inside stock, with bare metal if i loose paint while cleaning the gasket off...any one have any thoughts on this?
Cheers
Frosty
Hi Frosty.
I'd fill the new oil filter 2/3 full before cranking. (Any more and you'll probably spill it while screwing the filter into place). That plus "assembly-lube" and having the oil level just over the full-mark should make you OK I reckon.
Oh --- And have a mechanical oil pressure gauge piped up that you're watching while you're cranking. And have the glowplugs out and the fuel lever in the "fuel shut-off position".
As for the painting ... I wouldn't paint any surface that's facing inside the engine.
PS. Why have go gone for boring out to oversize rather than resleeving?
(I understood these engines were meant keep standard pistons by resleeving whenever bore wear exceeds the limit.)
- Thread starter
- #29
Ok. Cheers for the tips on priming the oil pump - i reckon if i screw the filter on before i put the engine in the car i should be able to filler her all the way up.
Lost Marbles:
Im guessing you have the glow plugs out and check you have oil pressure with the gauge, once you register pressure then drop the plugs back in and away you go?
On the boring versus sleeving. The pre-85 2h engines (i think) had sleeves as standard, 85-90 were all standard bored block. I assume this was a cost saving measure by toyota. I have spoken to my machnist and he seemed to want to bore them out, i have also checked and i can in the future put a sleeve in the bored block...i suppose the answer is - because the machinist thought it best!
Is it possible that the head needs modifying or do you just put a thicker head gasket in with a sleeve?
Good to see im not just paranoid about painting those covers...i will stick with my plan i think!
I will get some pictures up soon of all my painting!
Cheers
Frosty
Lost Marbles:
Im guessing you have the glow plugs out and check you have oil pressure with the gauge, once you register pressure then drop the plugs back in and away you go?
On the boring versus sleeving. The pre-85 2h engines (i think) had sleeves as standard, 85-90 were all standard bored block. I assume this was a cost saving measure by toyota. I have spoken to my machnist and he seemed to want to bore them out, i have also checked and i can in the future put a sleeve in the bored block...i suppose the answer is - because the machinist thought it best!
Is it possible that the head needs modifying or do you just put a thicker head gasket in with a sleeve?
Good to see im not just paranoid about painting those covers...i will stick with my plan i think!
I will get some pictures up soon of all my painting!
Cheers
Frosty
Yep. That's what I'd do.
I'm hazy about a changeover date for 2H engines.
Ahmmmm........I think you're right with 1985 (or Nov 1984 to be more exact) ... and I'm saying this only after looking at the Toyota EPC just now...
What year is your engine?
Liner protrusion (according to my 1980 2H FSM) is 0.03 to 0.09mm.
So less than a tenth of a millimetre maximum.
So I'd say the sleeves don't need any ........... Ooops (I stopped typing in my tracks).....
It occurred to me to check the EPC once again and it shows a change of head gasket occuring November 1984. So your question is probably now irrelevant. In other words, I think a LOT more engine stuff changed in Nov 1984 too.
PS. Look forward to seeing your progress.
Yep, Vaseline / petroleum Jelly is often used for sure. Often the oil pump is not measured up as they are costy to rebuild along with the rest of the parts needed.
[ she'll be right]
Need to check the oil pressure, as worn relief valves can cause filter failure and the 2H won't go far while pumping oil out at 100+PSI.
I turboed mine years ago, not for racing. But it is one hell of a lot safer overtaking.
- Thread starter
- #32
Right then, i am about to go check my oil pump out! Will check the FSM to see what to do, the splines and gears don't look visibly worn, but that probably means nothing. Oil pressure before it failed was always great, sat a little higher than half way on the gauge....
BBB, the oil pressure gauge screws into the filter housing attachment then? I often thought of a turbo, but the added cost etc. of setting it up is just not on the cards (or bank) at the moment after the work i have done on this thing over the last 12 months...im just looking forward to driving it...but that's what you get when you buy and old troopy for 2k
I was expecting a box of parts tonight, but no luck! Hopefully tomorrow so i can get them to the machinist before COB on Friday as i cant make it in Monday!
Here is my work for the last week, everything has bee wire wheeled, sanded, scraped, degreased, etched and painted. Im using POR15 engine enamel and POR15 black.
The colour scheme - all rotating parts are black (pulleys etc.)
All brackets etc. are white
The block is ford corporate blue (yet to be done)
And any aluminium is just polished...
Right i better get back to it!
Cheers
Frosty
BBB, the oil pressure gauge screws into the filter housing attachment then? I often thought of a turbo, but the added cost etc. of setting it up is just not on the cards (or bank) at the moment after the work i have done on this thing over the last 12 months...im just looking forward to driving it...but that's what you get when you buy and old troopy for 2k
I was expecting a box of parts tonight, but no luck! Hopefully tomorrow so i can get them to the machinist before COB on Friday as i cant make it in Monday!
Here is my work for the last week, everything has bee wire wheeled, sanded, scraped, degreased, etched and painted. Im using POR15 engine enamel and POR15 black.
The colour scheme - all rotating parts are black (pulleys etc.)
All brackets etc. are white
The block is ford corporate blue (yet to be done)
And any aluminium is just polished...
Right i better get back to it!
Cheers
Frosty
- Thread starter
- #33
Parts
Finally got my parts today! (Only 3 working days delivery, but was quite excited!) Have dropped the pistons, cam bearings. valve seals, valve guides etc. to the machinist so they can finish the block/head, should be done next Wednesday...just in time for me to head to NZ skiing for a couple of weeks
Still have a few parts (belts, some new/secondhand heater tubes) to grab next time i am in town. I had the injectors re-set and cleaned up and the pump should be done this week! Hoping to take a day off before i leave and start bolting this thing together!
Hoping to get my radiator flushed out and pressure tested while i have everything out, should be done by the end of the week!
Here is may parts store in the spare room slowly growing, and the woodheater piston heater removing the pins!
Cheers
Frosty
Finally got my parts today! (Only 3 working days delivery, but was quite excited!) Have dropped the pistons, cam bearings. valve seals, valve guides etc. to the machinist so they can finish the block/head, should be done next Wednesday...just in time for me to head to NZ skiing for a couple of weeks
Still have a few parts (belts, some new/secondhand heater tubes) to grab next time i am in town. I had the injectors re-set and cleaned up and the pump should be done this week! Hoping to take a day off before i leave and start bolting this thing together!
Hoping to get my radiator flushed out and pressure tested while i have everything out, should be done by the end of the week!
Here is may parts store in the spare room slowly growing, and the woodheater piston heater removing the pins!
Cheers
Frosty
- Thread starter
- #34
Long time!
Ok so, i have finished the rebuild and have been driving the car for 1 week now! 600km down, and about to drop the run in oil and re-tension head bolts and give her a good check over! Thought i would put an update on here of the pictures of the rebuild and some issues i came across, and maybe it will be a help to someone else doing the same!
Below is the block after a good scrubing and before clean off, getting ready for the paint, also new cam shaft and pistons all ready to go in, and the crankshaft all cleaned and polished.....
Ok so, i have finished the rebuild and have been driving the car for 1 week now
! 600km down, and about to drop the run in oil and re-tension head bolts and give her a good check over! Thought i would put an update on here of the pictures of the rebuild and some issues i came across, and maybe it will be a help to someone else doing the same!Below is the block after a good scrubing and before clean off, getting ready for the paint, also new cam shaft and pistons all ready to go in, and the crankshaft all cleaned and polished.....
- Thread starter
- #35
So next up i masked off the block, i learnt a neat trick using either a razor or a hammer as the fella does in this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbFAXYpKEzM i used a razor and just scraped the edge along the masked surface which has the same affect as the hammer. Saved hours, and probably many cut fingers! I used POR15 engine enamel for the block, and put 3 coats on. The trick i have found with that paint in particular is the substrate and the paint need to be warm, 20 degrees (celcius) is great. It helped it flow much better and self level. In the end i was pretty happy with it, its no show car, but it was never meant to be!
- Thread starter
- #36
Ok so after painting the new bearing caps went in, everything checked out with the plasitgauge being just about exactly in the middle of the toyota specification for oil clearances! Crank shaft went in and oil pump and pipes went on!
- Thread starter
- #37
Next the rear main seal went in, i had a bolt shear of in the block while putting it on. Really weird as they were only torqued to 18Nm, regardless i replaced them all with M8 bolts i believe they are M8 Coarse and around 25mm long, i got grade 8.8 bolts.
Next up the sump whent on, and this is where the learning began. I naively assumed the machinists had taken the same of the pistons as they had off the block and had yet to check piston protrusion. When i did (after the sump went on) low and behold it was 2-3 thoud over spec
, spec is 0.64 Max and i had 0.69-0.71mm. These engines are one of the only toyota diesels you cannot get graded headgaskets for (i learnt). So out the pistons came and had 3 thou taken off and i re-installed them the next night!
After which the oil cooler assembly went on.
Next up the sump whent on, and this is where the learning began. I naively assumed the machinists had taken the same of the pistons as they had off the block and had yet to check piston protrusion. When i did (after the sump went on) low and behold it was 2-3 thoud over spec
, spec is 0.64 Max and i had 0.69-0.71mm. These engines are one of the only toyota diesels you cannot get graded headgaskets for (i learnt). So out the pistons came and had 3 thou taken off and i re-installed them the next night!After which the oil cooler assembly went on.
- Thread starter
- #38
Nest up the injetor pump went in nice and easy, followed by the timing gears, and finlly timing gear cover and crank shaft pulley! No issues with any of these!
- Thread starter
- #39
All the pistons looking shiny just before the head goes on, and then bolted up the head. For all the gaskets in this build i have been using Hylomar spray on jointing compound http://www.alliedbearings.com.au/shop/product/hyl300 except for the head gasket. I was informed of various techniques from silver lead paint, Hylomar etc. etc. i ended up going with the gasket makers recomendation which was nothing. Lets hope it was the right way. So far i have no oil or water leaks from any gaskets, but only time will tell!
- Thread starter
- #40
Amongst all this i also had a 2 week ski holiday in NZ which was a much needed break from work both at home and at work. I had also been designing and building (among other things) a micro hydro system for a mate of mine, and we had its brake test in the middle of the rebuild. It will generate 400w which give hime 9.6kWhr per day from his system! He is one happy fella!
Once the head was on it was all straight forward, i assembled the new rocker arms and bolted everything down, and put on the nicely buffed aluminium cover!
Once the head was on it was all straight forward, i assembled the new rocker arms and bolted everything down, and put on the nicely buffed aluminium cover!
