2h help needed. (1 Viewer)

[89Japanzer]

morning all.

in a pickle. Just picked up a 60 with a diesel conversion (2h) and it died on me. 100 miles into a 400 mile return home trip. Symptoms were gradual decrease in power - low power, stumbling, rough idle, and then, eventually, it lost power (electrical) all together. Now it wont crank at all. Sounds to me like an alternator issue (there is a fuel pump installed where water separator should be - no separator installed) but wanted to check with the brain trust. Charging light does not illuminate. Also would note that there are several components that were disconnected under the hood...included blower, washer pumps and nozzles, and a few connections I cant identify. Only say that because I couldn't reason out why they were left that way unless there was an existing electrical issue that hadn't been resolved.

currently stranded in kingsport tn. Had the truck towed to toyota. Toyota ordered a new alternator but im concerned that whatever contributed to it failing will occur again. I say that only because the alternator that's in the truck was newly rebuilt and installed 6 months ago. Having both fuel filters replaced - the oem unit as well as the in-line filter at the aftermarket fuel pump. Btw - any good reason the shop that did the conversion would have installed the additional pump??Anything anyone might suggest I get checked out to confirm that it was the alt that was the rotten apple? Any issues specific to the 2h conversion?

help is appreciated. Tennessee is beautiful this time of year but would rather be here of my own volition, not stranded. Would live to get the problem fixed and get back on the road tomorrow.

thanks

 

[89Japanzer]

here's the alternator. Cant recall if internally or externally regulated which concerns me some given the po claims the alt was newly rebuilt. I feel stupid asking this but I only had the truck for an hour so am not yet familiar with it. Is the voltage regulator external or would it need to be purchased separately from the alternator?

 

[Tapage]

Ok .. lets do this from easy to complicated ..

1. That looks to be original alt or Chinese copy .. but it's a standard configuration with the vacuum pump in the back. If that's the case you have an external V regulated that's a box you can locate in the Drivers ( for LHD ) fender ..

2. any electrical issue you have, have really impact on the engine with it's pure mechanical in the most basic configuration.

3. the only electrical situation that might affect the engine running or not it't the oil pressure shut off .. that's based on the oil pressure sender ( not the same for the dash gauge, but same form and pretty close to n the pass side of the engine close to the firewall ) that in the absence of at least 4.3 PSI ( oil pressure ) will cut the engine to prevent massive failure via the EDIC and EDIC relay. **

4. If the low oil pressure situation it's real, you better figure that out before you put the engine on run again .. if not go to the next point.

5. You can make the 2H run on no electricity at all .. just crank it ( jump start it, push it or what ever method you like ) make sure the EDIC / fuel lever it's in the run position ( fuel or over fuel both will work to make home ) and it will run.

6. If fuel lever at the IP in the proper position ( mentioned in the point above ) and no run, you should check if there is fuel in the filter ( engine bay before IP ) and if so then check at the injectors 17mm open wrench IIRC ***

Notes:

** Plenty info about the EDIC and EDIC relay in the Diesel section, but basically it's a relay that control with a motor ( EDIC motor ) in the engine bay through a lever the fuel and fuel cut off on your IP

*** in the stock configuration and all working good there is no need for any extra electrical fuel pump in the 2H fuel system. That might indicate that there is some issue with the IP transfer pump ( suck pump and suck from the tank ability )

On another extra note, the 2H it's very bad handling air in the lines .. so if there is any air in the lines it will die on you despite you have good oil pressure and everything else working the way it should be ..

 

[Freewheel]

I think you should phone the shop that did the swap and find out about the additional fuel pump. (I assume it's electric?) You shouldn't need one, and if you've got an electrical problem thats killing your power, you'll have a fuel starvation issue because that weird fuel pump will be potentially restricting fuel flow when the power dies. As for the alternator that's in there, many people have gotten alternators that were bad off the shelf- especially rebuilds. Reports of a "new alternator" should be treated suspiciously.
Sorry that your new purchase is causing you some grief- good luck sorting it out.

 

[hj 60]

Might need to tow it home: to many cascading issues to fix in limited time
And you will have a lot of reading and clicking trough topics and we need a lot of pictures.

Loose unused connectors are normal, all hj have a few for accessories, manual/auto trans,..

A diesel can go pretty far without charging so it appears you left the seller without charging (did you notice that on the dash-gauge?)
So if you charge it starts fine? (so fixing the charging would fix your problem?) Charging at night and driving in daylight might get you home?

If the original diesel pump is failing the truck would be dead anyway so I think the diesel tank connections are messed up and they added a pump instead of cleaning the fuel lines or changing gasoline connections to diesel (whatever that involves...)

So some guess: no charging can be checked by regular shop (not a dealer $$)
1-no charging makes fuel pump not pumping or fuel pump slowly died and has to work above its capacity (check what amps it is and calculate running ours if it drains battery)

2-if edic cuts out (low oil pressure) it starts for about five seconds and shuts down: on or off.


original:
SWITCH ASSY, OIL PRESSURE
08.1980 - 02.1985= 8353014010
8353028030


SW-P1003
TOYOTA,SUZUKI,SUBARU,NISSAN,MITSUBISHI,MAZDA,KIA,HYUNDAI,DAEWOO,FORD 83530-10010,83530-10020,83530-12020,83530-14010,83530-14030,83530-28030,83530-30030,37820-73000,37820-79600,37820-80G01-000,37820-82000,37820-82001-000,37820-82002-000,37820-82001,42995-7000

This is the EDIC control oil pressure sender under the starter motor.
the Black/Yellow wire goes straight to the EDIC relay

BOSCH Hand Primer Pump Diesel Fuel Feed Pump # 2447222126
Check maintenance 2h-engine PDF page FU-20

check inline filter 22529 22529-67010 FILTER, FUEL PUMP. FILTER, FUEL PUMP (08.1980-08.1987) 3B,2H..BJ60,HJ60; (nothing there) and works very fine.

77242 TUBE, FUEL MAIN, NO.2
77252-60050 HJ60, W/SEDIMENTER (08/1980 - 10/1984)
77252-60051 HJ60, W/SEDIMENTER (11/1984 - 07/1987)
77242A HOSE, FUEL, NO.1 (FOR MAIN TUBE, NO.2)
95332-08020 HJ60, *H, L=200, ID=8
95332-08030 HJ60, *H, L=300, ID=8
77242B HOSE, FUEL, NO.2 (FOR MAIN TUBE, NO.2)
95332-08020 BJ60, HJ6*, *H, L=130, ID=8, W/SEDIMENTER
77243 TUBE, FUEL MAIN, NO.3
77251-60191HJ60..EUR, GEN (07/1983 - 10/1984)
77251-60192 HJ60..EUR, GEN (11/1984 - 07/1987)
77251-60211 BJ60, HJ60, W/SEDIMENTER (07/1983 - 10/1984)
77251-60212 BJ60, HJ60, W/SEDIMENTER (11/1984 - 01/1987)
77243A HOSE, FUEL, NO.1 (FOR MAIN TUBE, NO.3)
95332-08020 BJ60, HJ6*, *H, L=130, ID=8, W/SEDIMENTER
95332-08030 HJ60..EUR, GEN, *H, L=280, ID=8
77243B HOSE, FUEL, NO.2 (FOR MAIN TUBE, NO.3)
77256 TUBE, FUEL EMISSION, NO.3
77256B HOSE, FUEL, NO.2 (FOR EMISSION TUBE, NO.3)
95332-06030 BJ60, FJ60, HJ60, *H, L=240

If the dieselprimer pump is leaking: BOSCH Hand Primer Pump Diesel Fuel Feed Pump # 2447222126
Installed it , checked inline filter (nothing there) and works very fine.

 

[mongoose2231]

I vote for air in system due to the inline pump malfunctioning due to electrical issue. I picked up my truck from 2000mikes away and drove it home. It had a wad of electrical problems, including draining of batteries if not used for a week. I was still able to drive it home since the 2h only needs to start and then it goes.

 

[89Japanzer]

thanks for all of the input. Running all of these points by the tech.

so... New day, new info. Attached a few more pictures. Alternator is out, waiting for the new part. Should be in within the hour. Did a draw down test and the tech cant find a source for any abnormal tax on the battery. GP relay confirmed to not be an issue. Also spoke directly to the guy who did the conversion (just a few months ago) and although he stated that the alternator was neely rebuilt, he would suspect that its the culprit, given its needed to recharge the battery because of the draw that the electric pump provides. He said he out the pump in for two reasons... One, to prevent air entrapment that occurs in the stock arrangement and two, because the lines weren't flowing freely enough without it. Probably more a case of the latter, but it is what it is.

fingers crossed that it all goes back together and runs the way it should.

one additional question. The viscous fan wasnt functioning properly so the guy who did the conversion drove two screws through it to lock it up . The tech at toyota managed to find a replacement that bolted right up but it was for an 87 fj60 gas motor. Any issues with running it on the diesel?

 

[Tapage]

No issues with the gasser fan clutch as long as it can keep it happy with the 2H cooling demands ..

 

[Crick60]

Sounds like you've got it wrapped up. I've had plenty of 2h's with a dead alternator and it does nothing other than to prevent you turning it off (EDIC needs power) and start it up (starter needs power), by the sounds of it the unwelcome addition of an electric fuel pump in a mechanical diesel system is the straw that broken the camels back.

Hope your chrissy was spent wheeling her around!
You may be in for a bit of fun tracking other gremlins in the conversion in the near future, the 60 and diesel sections are your friends.

Tapage nailed it first up.

 

[89Japanzer]

hate to revive an old post, but wanted to first say thanks to everyone that offered assistance and second, let everyone know that all was resolved... after a 2.5 day, unscheduled vacation in Kingsport , TN. Two days after being stranded, the truck was ready to go. New alternator, new fan, charged battery and coolant hoses all snugged up. So i headed out for home. About 20 minutes up the road, the truck started to hesitate again, stuttering and the temp gauge shot way up again - not into the red, but just below. I was furious and on the verge of having the thing towed back to the dealer. But i turned around and went back to Toyota. Explained to the tech what was going on and started to troubleshoot again. I had him get a IR temp gauge to check if the motor was indeed running hot. Turned out it wasnt. Actual temp was 180 when the needle was at about 7/8 of the way up. One problem solved, or at least eliminated as being a real issue. Next, i asked him to take the electri fuel pump off-line but they were about 25 minutes from closing so he didnt have time. So, i had him pull the little bullet filter in front of the pump and check it. He dropped it, tapped it out and a ton of rusty gunk poured out. No way fuel was getting through that, i thought. I'd unkowingly purchased the exact same fuel pump the shop had used in the conversion earlier in the day as a back-up for the drive home. Popped the package open, put the fresh filter on the pump and bolted everything back up again. Problem 2 solved... i hoped. Had him check the alternator charging one more time and it was reading the correct output and fuse was solid. So, i hopped back in the truck and hit the road again. Just before hopping back on the highway, i stopped at a NAPA and picked up a spare battery in the event the alternator tanked again or the battery that was on the truck was somehow faulty (wasnt convinced it wasnt part of the reason i broke down in the first place). Off i went.

- Forgot to mention that the tech also realized as i was pulling out of the shop that the brake lights werent going off. Only way to get them to shut down was to pull up on the brake pedal - something screwy was going on with the switch... I bought a bag of zip ties and linked 4 or so together, making a loop at each end. Looped one end around the pedal and used the other as a handle, then proceeded to set out steering and shifting with one hand and holding my brake pedal up with my other. No problem. Only 380 miles to go .

About 2 hrs in the trip, 120 miles up RT81, i noticed the volt meter was sagging below the 12V mark. watched it for a few miles and realized it was dropping slowly. I was going to have to drop the new battery in but wanted to get as far as i could before the swap. At this point it was around 11pm and i was somewhere in SW west virginia. I pulled off at a truck stop and swapped the battery just as the lights started to dim. At this point, i figured i'd probably make it maybe another 150 - 160 miles, based on how quickly the last battery drained - About 100 miles short of home. So i called my better half and let her know to expect a call in a few hours when i got to a hotel for the night. I was standing outside the gas station trying to wake myself up, sipping on gatorade and downing doritos when i thought to check the battery connections again. Popped the hood, confirmed the terminals were nice and tight... popped the cap on the in-line fuse in the wire from the alternator - it was intact, not blown. But i decided on a whim to pull it just to make sure all was good. And there it was... the root of the evil. Turns out that one of the blades was slightly charred and the plastic casing around it was melted a bit. But the fuse break was connected. Ran in the gas station, bought a 30A blade fuse and popped it in. Started the engine, revved it a bit, and right away the needle rose to just shy of 14v. Realized then that the tech, when inspecting the alternator on the first day assumed that because the voltage he was reading coming from the alternator at the battery was almost zero, that the alternator was the problem. He popped the cap on the fuse but must not have pulled it, otherwise he would have seen that although it looked good, there was something funky going on. I was ecstatic. So, i set back out, cautiously optimistic that i'd sctually make it home before x-mas eve.

260 miles and 4 hours later, i pulled into the driveway. Wide awake, but exhausted. Hands burning from holding the brake pedal up for almost 7 hours. But happier than i'd been in a long time. Merry x-mas to me.

So, after spending $800 + on a hotel, miscellaneous parts from Autozone, a viscous fan, alternator, and a handful of shop hours, the root of my problem turned out to be a $.90 fuse, a clogged fuel filter, and the trust i put into the local toyota dealer to start with the potential simple solutions first. The dealer was good enough to comp me for the parts and labor so at the end of the day, the damage wasnt too bad... other than the unscheduled time away from home. But that wasnt horrible either. Ended up meeting some pretty cool people at Toyota (they all knew me by name by the 3rd day), and at the local watering hole. All in all, it wasnt bad at all.

Since being back, I managed to deal with 2 issues at once. In pulling the fuel pump, i also solved the short in the temp gauge. Turns out the ground wire was shoddy at the pump. Havent had a false hot since. Everything else on the rig is rock solid. Love the diesel and have gotten used to driving at just 55 - 60mph on the highway. Will post some pictures when i get some time.

Oh - BTW, the alternator has an internal voltage regulator. Guess the old one was dumped during the swap.

Cheers

Richard

 

[Output Shaft]

Great story we can all learn from.

 

[rustybucket]

If that is the same IP as a 3b, you can disable the electrical system by disconnecting the connections arm from the edic and disconnecting the connections from the alternator and start the truck. Then disconnect the battery and you wont drain the battery. Not sure if this works for the 2h diesel motor. Toyota should been smart and did a voltage drop check at every point including the fuse. Did the fuse holder over heat? This would happen with a high resistance path.

 

[rustybucket]

BTW these trucks are very old and parts are hard to find. I would NEVER drive long distance unless I has spare parts such as alternator regulator, brushes diods. Starter brushes, water pump and so on just in case.

 

[Crick60]

You must have felt like you'd solved the meaning of life when you found that fuse and the meter read 13.8v!
Sometimes they test you but all said and done we wouldn't be without our 60's, well done on all the troubleshooting and the learning curve adventure.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

In defense of the Toyota tech, you brought a converted truck to them with a motor that was never offered in this country. I wouldn't expect them to be able to troubleshoot past basic automotive problems. That said, sucks that they missed the fuse! Glad you got it fixed up

Make sure to install a fan shroud!

 

[SteveH]

I'm impressed that the Toyota tech didn't throw you out of the shop with an 'I've never seen one of these before' attitude. Also impressed that he found a suitable substitute fan clutch.

This is lame: so the guy who did the conversion drove two screws through it to lock it up - hope he makes it right with you.

 

[89Japanzer]

Yeah, no hard feelings toward the toyota tech. He was an older guy who had actually retired and came back to work for them a few days a week. At the end of the day, he actually did a lot more work for me than he actually billed for., and we developed a bit of a friendship over the 3 days i was there. Even exchanged X-mas cards. I think the whole situation would have gotten sniffed out sooner, but the attitude at the outset was kind of...' this isnt the kind of thing we (toyota) do...' , so they didnt spend as much time diagnosing the problem as they probably could have. Matter of fact, they let it sit for 3 hours because they thought that the motor was a Mercedes transplant and were planning on sending me up the street.

As to the screws through the fan, yeah. the dealer felt really bad about it. He knew the builder pretty well and had apparently been given assurances that the car was GTG, and apparently wasnt informed about the fan or the fuel pump situation prior to sale.

All good in the end. I was reimbursed for the time and materials.

 

[89Japanzer]

You must have felt like you'd solved the meaning of life when you found that fuse and the meter read 13.8v!
Sometimes they test you but all said and done we wouldn't be without our 60's, well done on all the troubleshooting and the learning curve adventure.

I was more relieved that i hadnt been bamboozled into buying a lemon of a conversion. All the symptoms i was experiencing... overheating, followed by slight loss of power, followed by complete loss of power to the point that the truck wouldnt drive any faster than 20mph, the pool of coolant on the ground, and then losing electric power completely on top of it... It all had me thinking that i'd just blown a nice, fat wad of cash on a 2 ton garage ornament. And i was happy, but felt like a dud at the same time for not waking up early on the first day to snoop around the truck on my own while i was waiting for them to pull it into the shop.

Honestly though, at the end of the day, i wouldn't have had it any other way. It was a good experience and gives the rig a little back story that makes it all the more interesting.