2F Engine Removal--I don't get it

[mrsvle]

Gentlemen,

Vehicle is an 83 FJ60. My carb rebuild became a cylinder head rebuild and is now a complete engine rebuild. I bought the engine hoist at Checkers today. I have essentially removed everything from the engine except the distributor and the oil pan, and I am now ready to pull the engine itself. I have all the FSMs, but they say nothing about how to actually pull the engine. I have the Haynes Manual (1980-1996 - Blue) as well, but it seems to be missing some steps.

How do I actually pull the engine? From what I can gather looking at pictures in the manuals and searches through this forum, the bell housing along with the flywheel and clutch all come out with the engine. But this would mean that the clutch fork must be removed--am I correct?

Also, it seems I should support the transmission with a jack. But it appears that the transmission is already well supported by a cross beam. Do I put a jack up against the cross beam or further back against the transmission itself? Do I need to remove the transmission skid plate?

I also have a brand spanking new engine stand (2000 lbs, Harbor Freight) that I assembled tonight, but I'm really not sure how I am going to mount the engine on it. Will I have to remove the bell housing, clutch, and flywheel while the engine is on the hoist, before attaching it to the engine stand?

Finally, any advice on where to attach chains or straps from the hoist to the block? Should I bolt some hooks to the block and attach with chain or use some kinds of straps and sling them under the oil pan?

Sorry, I've just never pulled an engine before. I really can't afford to pay someone to do all this, I'm not in a big hurry, and I do have a fair collection of tools as well as all the FSMs. Besides, while going through this whole process I can see plenty of mistakes (several missing or completely loose bolts, no valve cover gasket, etc) that supposedly professional mechanics have made. I think I can do better.

I've taken many digital pics along each stage of the tear down so if you need a shot of anything from an '83 FJ60 I may have it. Let me know.

Thanks for any advice you can provide. Hopefully I'll learn enough from this to answer someone else's questions along the way.

Matt

 

[60wag]

You can either pull the engine with the tranny attached, or leave the tranny in the truck. I've only done one pull/replace. I left the tranny in the truck for the engine removal but ended up doing the reinstall with the tranny and tcase already bolted to the engine. I think the one piece install was the easier way to do it except that the whole thing is huge and a bit awkward to maneuver. The rear lift hook on the engine ends up carrying nearly all the weight. An adjustable load leveler between the hoist and the engine helps a lot.

 

[Heartworm]

Go slow/have help

Get a small section of heavy chain and put 2 tow hooks on it with chain shuts; mine is 29 inches, hook to hook. There are 2 lift points on the engine. If they are not there, I have heard of people using a head bolt but I have not tried that. You might try to buy used from a junk yard if they are missing. There are 4 bolts from the transmission to the rear of the bell housing. That is where you want to break it loose. The clutch release fork will come out with the engine; what will remain is the splined shaft coming out of the front of the transmission. You will need good clearance in front of the engine. Remove radiator, grille, headlights and cross piece between fenders. One issue is the air conditioner condenser. If your AC is charged, you can gently move it out of the way without breaking releasing the coolant and save some money on a recharge. No need to take the oil pan off. Have the vehicle on the ground so that you can roll it back if necessary. You may have some trouble breaking the tranny loose; my 60 was pretty tight, but my 40 came right off. To get the motor back in, you will need to get 2 bolts the size of the tranny bolts and grind the heads off. You will put those in the bell housing finger tight as guiding studs. Also, you will need a clutch alignment tool; this comes with most clutch kits and you would be wize to put in the whole clutch mechanism while you have it apart if there is any doubt about it. You will need some pry bars of various sizes.

 

[SilentUnicorn]

Hello Folks,
i also may be looking at the same engine yank as mrsvle. My question is why is it advisable to separate the engine behind the bell housing? And anyone got an idea of what the 2f weighs?

I have just joined after lurking about here for a couple of days and searching for various information. Nice site you folks have here.

 

[FJ40Jim]

Vehicle is an 83 FJ60. My carb rebuild became a cylinder head rebuild and is now a complete engine rebuild. I bought the engine hoist at Checkers today. I have essentially removed everything from the engine except the distributor and the oil pan, and I am now ready to pull the engine itself. I have all the FSMs, but they say nothing about how to actually pull the engine. I have the Haynes Manual (1980-1996 - Blue) as well, but it seems to be missing some steps.

The 1980-1996 Haynes is not as good as the 1968-1982, IMO.

Don't remove the oil pan, it's handy for setting the engine on the ground.

Do remove the dissy. It's fragile and sometimes bumps against the batt tray and/or core support.

How do I actually pull the engine? From what I can gather looking at pictures in the manuals and searches through this forum, the bell housing along with the flywheel and clutch all come out with the engine. But this would mean that the clutch fork must be removed--am I correct?

The BH comes out w/ the engine. The clutch fork stays in the BH. Just unbolt the slave and lay it over on the frame.

Also, it seems I should support the transmission with a jack. But it appears that the transmission is already well supported by a cross beam. Do I put a jack up against the cross beam or further back against the transmission itself? Do I need to remove the transmission skid plate?

Leave the tranny & transfercase in the truck. It will stay on the tranny crossmember. Once the engine is removed, the transfercase weight will make the tail fall down on the skidplate. Shim it up w/ a 2x4 block, between the skidplate and t-case, to get it back to approx. the correct angle to allow the engine to go back together.

I also have a brand spanking new engine stand (2000 lbs, Harbor Freight) that I assembled tonight, but I'm really not sure how I am going to mount the engine on it. Will I have to remove the bell housing, clutch, and flywheel while the engine is on the hoist, before attaching it to the engine stand?

Pull the engine out, then remove the clutch w/ it up in the air. For stability's sake, the engine can be lowered down to rest on the oil pan for removing the flywheel & BH. Then bolt the engine stand head to the back of the block. Lift it back up and install on stand.

Finally, any advice on where to attach chains or straps from the hoist to the block? Should I bolt some hooks to the block and attach with chain or use some kinds of straps and sling them under the oil pan?

The manual says use the factory lift hooks. I like to use the head bolts w/ an engine leveler. Do not sling it underneath, it will not be safe & stable. Attach chains as high as possible. Head bolts, manifold or other accy bolts on the cylinder head are good bets.

Thanks for any advice you can provide. Hopefully I'll learn enough from this to answer someone else's questions along the way.

 

[chambers60]

bell housing on / off ?

The only real reason to take the engine out with the bell housing is to be able to get to the upper bell housing bolts. I have taken engines out both ways, neither of any real benefit other than the stated clearance of the upper bolts to the fire wall. I wouldn't do a one piece pull of engine and trans, Way to much to move, very unstable and therefor unsafe. You have the time play it safe.
The benefit of leaving the housing with the trans is that during the install you won't be cursing the gods as the clutch fork falls off just as you are getting the input shaft to line up with the clutch/housing assembly.. Supporting the trans is to keep the alignment of the engine and trans. As you pull the engine out the trans will drop down slightly, if not supported. Think of it like a fulcrum, the front of the trans is at one end of the line and the trans mount is the fulcrum. W/o support the bell housing end drops down. I have found the best way to support the trans is with a rachet strap just between the bell housing and the trans, anchored on either side of the frame. gets rid of the jack /support that will be in your way when your attempting to replace the engine on the hoist. One final note, mark your hood hinges with marker paint what ever before you pull the hood. It will save time when you replace it.
bob

 

[chambers60]

just read Jim's reply .. I guess there is ten ways to skin a cat. Also forgot about the transfer weight (thinking like a damn car mechnic again...) Jim is absolutely correct follow his lead.

 

[zebrabeefj40]

chambers60: Your advice is great for a SBC but doesn't work too well on a 2F. You have to remove the flywheel on the 2F to get to the bellhousing bolts. With a 2F you are pretty much commited to pulling the bellhousing with the motor. The choice after that is whether the trans and tcase comes out too.



Nick

 

[FJ40Jim]

The only real reason to take the engine out with the bell housing is to be able to get to the upper bell housing bolts. I have taken engines out both ways, neither of any real benefit other than the stated clearance of the upper bolts to the fire wall.

Cruiser engines have to come out w/ BH. On the antiquated 1/2/3F block, the BH bolts are hidden behind the flywheel. The removal order must be: Tranny, clutch, flywheel, BH.

Engines designed after WW2 generally allow removal of the BH without removing flywheel first.

One final note, mark your hood hinges with marker paint what ever before you pull the hood. It will save time when you replace it.

Also a good idea. I use a fine point Sharpie.

 

[FJ40Jim]

Dangit, Nick! You out-typed me again.

 

[chambers60]

Hi Nick
yup would work fine there also, and that was one of my realms of thought.. but I was also referencing my bj and hjs. I guess they are more like a SBC. Tried to find a quick look at the bellhousings (should have done it first before i assumed.... yes the rhyme is true ...LOL). Can you post a picture, anything I found quickly shows the housing on and don't really show the dis-assembly. Not really wrappnig my mind aroundit , just coming off a night shift so my brain be gone. THe housing bolts to the block behind the flywheel,....not on the rim of the block... therefor the flywheel/clutch assembly must be remove to get to them?
Bob

 

[zebrabeefj40]

The F/2F/3F motors do not have a "rim" for the bell to bolt to. The bell wraps around the flywheel assembly to bolt to the block. I don't have a picture handy but I'm sure a quick search here or of Spectors website will show what a bellhousing looks like.

FJ40Jim: Once in a while I can get a comment in edgewise around here! ;p

Nick

 

[chambers60]

Found a pic . Interesting way of mounting never ran across that before but also haven't had to work on many of the gassers when they get old people just fix them, themselves, or welcome to a SBC! Hard to find a non-molested one, to hit the jobber shops. they just don't break down!
....I'll shut-up and get a manual if my curiousity needs more satisfying
bob

 

[chambers60]

Got to get my head out of thinking domestic vehicles! my bad shame on me! lol
Bob

 

[cruiser88]

all great advice before i say anything else dam what a great site been in front of face for awhile im sure been looking around for a long time to find a site like this. but anyway my first engine pull was a real grip without a garage and such im sure you did not have the money and such to buy a fantastic cherry picker and all so this was my experience on my first pull at 700 hundred thousand miles on this engine picker was to lite land cruiser engines with the tranny, transfer case was just way to much for that little cherry picker be carefull dont do it alone .if all can be helped . needless to say the outcome was this new front grill which now i lay down and a heaver cherrypicker .but doing it all at once as most has suggusted is the best way in my book later cruiser 88

 

[mrsvle]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for your comments, good to have some advice as I'm feeling my way through this.

Jim, I agree the 1968-1982 Haynes manuel is better than the 1980-1996 manual, however, the 68-82 manual claims "it is not considered feasible to remove the engine without removing the transmission, unless the transmission has already been removed." (p 18) But it appears that engine removal only is quite common.

What about the hood? I was not planning in removing the hood. I have removed the A/C condensor, radiator, and crossmember. Wont this provide enough room to pull the block through? I already have the cylinder head off. I plan to put the remachined cylinder head back on the block while I have it on the engine stand. Will it fit back into the engine compartment with the hood on?

Also, my original plan has been to hone the cylinders, and replace the rings and rod bearings. I know this can be done with the block in frame, however, the engine and engine compartment are so dirty with grit and oil grime that I didn't feel I could do this without all sorts of crap falling into my open cylinders. I think I can do a much cleaner job with the engine on a stand. This would of course leave the main bearings on the crank and the cam bearings original and not replaced. One problem is that I need to replace the side cover gasket, its been leaking oil forever, but when I pull it, I know that all sorts of junk will fall down on to the lifters. I also want to clean and inspect the lifters. But then junk may fall in there and on to the cam shaft and I don't know how well I could clean the lifter sockets without getting grit and dirt on the cam.

I know the general advice is to go ahead and do everything while the engine is out, but this can add up enormously in terms of money and expertise. And I don't geel that I really have enough skill or experience to mess with the timing gears, crank bearings, etc.

The vehicle has 212,000 miles. Do I just do the rings and cylinder head? or is it time to have the crank and cam shaft refurbished as well, in which case I will send it to a machine shop at a considerable increase in price for parts and labor.

Thanks for your comments.

Matt

 

[zebrabeefj40]

No need to remove the hood. I pulled a complete engine/trans/tcase out of a '87 FJ60 all in one piece with no hood issues. The ealier trucks (FJ40/45/55) don't have a crossmember under the trans like the FJ60 does. You HAVE to pull the trans one way or the other. I tried hanging the trans/tcase on straps under a 40 once; that didn't work out too well.

You will have the motor out. Do the complete job right the first time. Since you say you have time I assume the 60 is not the only vehicle. If that's the case take the time to do the work (or to save the money to pay for it). Send the block out to be cleaned and measured. Same for the crank. Have the rods resized for new bearings. Have the shop pound new cam bearings in as well. Timing gears should need nothing other than cleaning. If you want some kind of warrentee you should have the shop assemble at least the short block for you too. Most shops will not warrentee work if you do the assembly yourself.

Good luck!

Nick

 

[Tinker]

As far as removing the hood, just do it! I'd even consider removing the inner & outer fenders, too.

When I was a kid I tried to do things the "fast" way without any experience & ended up fighting things all the way. Now if something's in the the way I take it off. Saves time & parts in the long run.

 

[roscoFJ73]

No need to remove the hood. I pulled a complete engine/trans/tcase out of a '87 FJ60 all in one piece with no hood issues. The ealier trucks (FJ40/45/55) don't have a crossmember under the trans like the FJ60 does. You HAVE to pull the trans one way or the other. I tried hanging the trans/tcase on straps under a 40 once; that didn't work out too well.

You will have the motor out. Do the complete job right the first time. Since you say you have time I assume the 60 is not the only vehicle. If that's the case take the time to do the work (or to save the money to pay for it). Send the block out to be cleaned and measured. Same for the crank. Have the rods resized for new bearings. Have the shop pound new cam bearings in as well. Timing gears should need nothing other than cleaning. If you want some kind of warrentee you should have the shop assemble at least the short block for you too. Most shops will not warrentee work if you do the assembly yourself.

Good luck!

Nick

I would go along with this advice and you will have something approaching a new motor that will give you years of good service.
You can have the enjoyment of fitting all the outside stuff back on like I did last year

 

[zebrabeefj40]

As far as removing the hood, just do it! I'd even consider removing the inner & outer fenders, too.

When I was a kid I tried to do things the "fast" way without any experience & ended up fighting things all the way. Now if something's in the the way I take it off. Saves time & parts in the long run.

I'll go along with the hood but the fenders are a long way from being an issue in a 60. The real limiting factor on a 60 is the radiator core support. If the trans is staying with the truck as the poster described then even the core support is plenty wide. Pulling the motor only out of a 60 is pretty easy. Trying to pull the trans/tcase is more of a challenge as the tcase wants to hook everything on the way out. YRMV of course!

Nick