2F Engine Noise and crank pulley wobble (1 Viewer)

[Beehanger]

Hi Gents,

I'm 26 and just (hopefully) completed my first build+baseline and mechanical journey in general on my 1985 60 series but im hearing some odd engine noises, and a potential crankshaft wobble. I've done everything besides the machining + initial assembling the head and block.

I Had my engine rebuilt a bit ago, it's been installed and running for a while now (by me) but has just been chasing leaks etc. for months. I'm sitting at 14.5 mercury 17 degrees advanced (no vac advance) at 5800 ft and have been convinced for months I've had a running problem/vacuum leak b/c I was sitting at 12hg before I advanced timing, and have done a little carb tuning, but am still totally unsure if I'm at the finish line. I've heard very conflicting opinions from the forum on this matter alone.

Before I drive the thing I figured I'd really listen to the engine and try to diagnose misfires or any knocks. Here's what I found

After lowering the idle and getting to a place where I could hear the engine at a reasonable volume, I realized I'm not familiar with what the engine SHOULD sound like. I've compared it to other YouTube videos and it seems like it's probably normal besides the stumbling at cod idle, but I figured I'd post the sound here as there's a loud clicking noise that varies with RPM, but I'm not fully certain if it's normal or not. See my posted YouTube videos on it here. (video 1 us at cold, video 2 is at hot, both no choke):
(STUMBLING)
Weird ringing noise FJ60 Landcruiser floorboard - https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Q1__uRW1vvw
fj60 idling noise, knock? - https://www.youtube.com/shorts/dBmsnMl9iEs


The vehicle had an upper and lower-end knock and was burning oil. One mechanic told me it needed a rebuild so I sent it to a guy out of state who said everything looked fine but set me up with a machine shop anyway. They said they would polish and grind lifters but it didn't look like they did. The reason im saying this is im wondering if they didn't do what they said they did in regard to the crankshaft as well. And, more importantly (im not a machinist so id ont know) if the rebuild they did didn't solve my original knocking issue(s)

Could the unground lifters cause a knock? could an unbalanced crank cause a knock?


On the topic of unbalanced crank:

The only other engine concern I can think of (besides briefly getting it to 280 degrees on break-in as a Rookie) is if the engine builders I shipped the engine to didn't balance the crankshaft. We checked all the toques on the main bearings and connecting rods and had to fine-tune a few torque values on em. Never met the builders, These guys knew they weren't gonna see me again as I was out of state and went through a shop initially for the work before I stepped in. My crank PULLEY does show a bit of wobble, but it's also the original. One mudder mentioned a while back it's Hard to say what's causing the wobble unless I were to change pulleys. but he'd be pissed if the crank was the cause of the wobble.

I'm posting the invoice from the machine shop AS you'll notice the invoice never mentioned balancing just grinding. Are these one of the same thing? They used aftermarket pistons etc. Below is a photo of the crank where I think there are visible "grind marks". Is this the same as balancing? Wondering if this could be the cause of a knock or the wobble, and if that's a big issue etc.

Is balancing necessary, and does it look like they ground the crank as listed in the invoice as per the photos below?


Thanks in advance, trying to drive this thing after 2 years of teaching myself mechanics on the fly. Trying to rack my brain here and figure out if the machinist did what he said he did via the photos and videos, cause there's a chance I have a crank wobble and a chance I have a loud knock. would be nice if I could just trust his work but I do not, and also don't trust my ear in regard to knocks yet.

I'm in this one alone and its a bit beyond my scope so any and all help is appreciated, happy to answer questions for more context

Dan

 

[John Smith]

I don't hear a knock, sounds like a 2F to me. Your valve chatter sounds louder than mine at idle, but that just may be the recording. Also, my crank pulley has had a wobble for years, still running well.

 

[OSS]

Sounds normal.
2F engine doesn’t purr. They’re clanky.
I kept my idle above the 650 rpm spec. Engine is happier.

 

[Mark W]

I see a charge for "grind lifters" on your invoice. I do not see anything about the cam. You don't "polish and grind" lifters. You resurface them so that the surface is as new and then you install them with a new or "reground" (made new again) camshaft. It requires dedicated machinery to regrind a camshaft. Doing the lifters without doing the cam is pointless. As is doing the cam an not the lifters. They are a set.

I also see mention of "resize rods". Not really sure what that is about.

To be honest I did not read all of your blurry invoice very closely.

Balancing the crankshaft is not a standard thing that is done on an engine rebuild. Because... it does not ever need to be done! The crank is "balanced when it is made. That's it. All done.

*IF* you are building a high performance, top end, very modified, high rpm engine, then the balance of a crank might be revisited. None of that applies to your engine.

Crankshafts do not "wobble".

The charge for "grinding" the crankshaft refers to resizing and restoring the bearing surfaces. It is not visible when the crankshaft is installed and is not descernable to the naked eye in any event (other than the fact that any damage to the bearing surfaces has been restored to undamaged and unworn).

"unground lifters" do not cause knock.

Your crankshaft is not "unbalanced".

Your pictures do not really show anything. When you mention "grind marks" on the crank, I am assuming that you are referring to the factory manufacturing marks that are visible in one of them pics? That is all that is. That is how the crank came from the factory. Notice that the groving that you see there is now new. You are not looking at fresh shiny surface. Those marks are 40 years old more or less.

No one can diagnose your engine based on a youtube video. Or even give you any more than a guess about what they are seeing/hearing unless the problem is so ****ing obvious that it is silly for you even wonder about it.

What you are calling the "crank pulley" is the harmonic balancer. It cannot be bent. It can not wobble unless it is loose and the key/keyway has been damaged. The possible. Doubtful on a fresh engine with no real time on it. But possible. Check and make sure it is tight. Hope that it is, because if it is loose and wobbling, the damage has been done. The raised edges of the pulley groove for the belts *can* be damaged and bent and can make the harmonic balancer appear to be not running true.

Since I have wandered back to Mud I have noticed about 13 dozen threads you have started about your rig. Nothing wrong with that, don't take this wrong... I know the world has and is changing. But you really can not internet, youtube, forum, overthink and obsess your way to a perfectly set up rig. There is only so much you can gain from videos and hundreds of conflicting opinions (may of which are based on minimal actual knowledge and experience). If you ARE going to focus on internet information... don't try to listen to every single person who feels like they have to say something. You can not throw yourself down every rabbit hole that you see.

Talk to the mechanics that are actually working on your rig. Get them to explain things. They may not care to spend the time to teach a class in "this is a car 101". But most are more than willing to explain and discuss if they see that you are understanding what they are telling you. If they get the impression from you that you can not understand or are not listening anyway, they are gonna treat you like Susie Soccermom and not really get down into the weeds with you about what you have or what you need. Listen to them and trust them. Or find someone else that you do trust.

Over the years I have talked to a lot of customers who think that a previous mechanic has screwed them and been dishonest or done shoddy work. It does happen. More than I like to hear about. But as often the mechanic has done nothing wrong at all and the customer is simply jumping to conclusions because they really have no idea what actually goes on under a hood or in a shop, some third party that really knows nothing about what is going on has steered them that way or they simply have unrealistic understandings and expectations (I have had people do things like blaming me when their horn does not work after I replaced Ujoints for them!)

Anyway.. keep on doing stuff, making mistakes, fixing them and thinking about what you are doing. Learn from YOUR experience. It takes time. Internet advice has value but it is not a shortcut. Other peoples experience will never be yours anyway.

But don't overthink every little thing, do jump to conclusions too fast and DON'T think that every answer on the internet has value over what real people in the real world are telling you.


Mark...

 

[Beehanger]

I see a charge for "grind lifters" on your invoice. I do not see anything about the cam. You don't "polish and grind" lifters. You resurface them so that the surface is as new and then you install them with a new or "reground" (made new again) camshaft. It requires dedicated machinery to regrind a camshaft. Doing the lifters without doing the cam is pointless. As is doing the cam an not the lifters. They are a set.

I also see mention of "resize rods". Not really sure what that is about.

To be honest I did not read all of your blurry invoice very closely.

Balancing the crankshaft is not a standard thing that is done on an engine rebuild. Because... it does not ever need to be done! The crank is "balanced when it is made. That's it. All done.

*IF* you are building a high performance, top end, very modified, high rpm engine, then the balance of a crank might be revisited. None of that applies to your engine.

Crankshafts do not "wobble".

The charge for "grinding" the crankshaft refers to resizing and restoring the bearing surfaces. It is not visible when the crankshaft is installed and is not descernable to the naked eye in any event (other than the fact that any damage to the bearing surfaces has been restored to undamaged and unworn).

"unground lifters" do not cause knock.

Your crankshaft is not "unbalanced".

Your pictures do not really show anything. When you mention "grind marks" on the crank, I am assuming that you are referring to the factory manufacturing marks that are visible in one of them pics? That is all that is. That is how the crank came from the factory. Notice that the groving that you see there is now new. You are not looking at fresh shiny surface. Those marks are 40 years old more or less.

No one can diagnose your engine based on a youtube video. Or even give you any more than a guess about what they are seeing/hearing unless the problem is so ****ing obvious that it is silly for you even wonder about it.

What you are calling the "crank pulley" is the harmonic balancer. It cannot be bent. It can not wobble unless it is loose and the key/keyway has been damaged. The possible. Doubtful on a fresh engine with no real time on it. But possible. Check and make sure it is tight. Hope that it is, because if it is loose and wobbling, the damage has been done. The raised edges of the pulley groove for the belts *can* be damaged and bent and can make the harmonic balancer appear to be not running true.

Since I have wandered back to Mud I have noticed about 13 dozen threads you have started about your rig. Nothing wrong with that, don't take this wrong... I know the world has and is changing. But you really can not internet, youtube, forum, overthink and obsess your way to a perfectly set up rig. There is only so much you can gain from videos and hundreds of conflicting opinions (may of which are based on minimal actual knowledge and experience). If you ARE going to focus on internet information... don't try to listen to every single person who feels like they have to say something. You can not throw yourself down every rabbit hole that you see.

Talk to the mechanics that are actually working on your rig. Get them to explain things. They may not care to spend the time to teach a class in "this is a car 101". But most are more than willing to explain and discuss if they see that you are understanding what they are telling you. If they get the impression from you that you can not understand or are not listening anyway, they are gonna treat you like Susie Soccermom and not really get down into the weeds with you about what you have or what you need. Listen to them and trust them. Or find someone else that you do trust.

Over the years I have talked to a lot of customers who think that a previous mechanic has screwed them and been dishonest or done shoddy work. It does happen. More than I like to hear about. But as often the mechanic has done nothing wrong at all and the customer is simply jumping to conclusions because they really have no idea what actually goes on under a hood or in a shop, some third party that really knows nothing about what is going on has steered them that way or they simply have unrealistic understandings and expectations (I have had people do things like blaming me when their horn does not work after I replaced Ujoints for them!)

Anyway.. keep on doing stuff, making mistakes, fixing them and thinking about what you are doing. Learn from YOUR experience. It takes time. Internet advice has value but it is not a shortcut. Other peoples experience will never be yours anyway.

But don't overthink every little thing, do jump to conclusions too fast and DON'T think that every answer on the internet has value over what real people in the real world are telling you.


Mark...

Appreciate this. Was beginning to realize some of the things you’ve mentioned and this helps confirm them. It’s sobering to realize because this forum has helped get me really far, but it really all does come down to my own tinkering, judgement, and ability to get in person help. A lot of the answers I’ve gotten I’ve taken as truth vs option and has made things more difficult for sure by creating false rabbit holes on themselves. Which is on me in the end. There are a lot of conflicting opinions as always but I’m realizing it’s “unfair” for me to have high expectations of online answers to difficult questions due to low context and intellectual desperation. A learning experience in its own. Definitely invaluable to hear the points nonetheless and have frames of reference from other people, wouldn’t have been able to do this without it. But I’ve probably gone a bit overboard and overestimated the depth of analysis that can be done on the forum and underestimated the strength of in person experiential knowledge and the FSM.

Thanks for the reminder,
Dan

 

[Beehanger]

I don't hear a knock, sounds like a 2F to me. Your valve chatter sounds louder than mine at idle, but that just may be the recording. Also, my crank pulley has had a wobble for years, still running well.

The valve chatter is definitely loud in person as well. Will have to drive it to a mechanic friend 20 mins away to have him listen.

 

[Mark W]

Appreciate this. Was beginning to realize some of the things you’ve mentioned and this helps confirm them. It’s sobering to realize because this forum has helped get me really far, but it really all does come down to my own tinkering, judgement, and ability to get in person help. A lot of the answers I’ve gotten I’ve taken as truth vs option and has made things more difficult for sure by creating false rabbit holes on themselves. Which is on me in the end. There are a lot of conflicting opinions as always but I’m realizing it’s “unfair” for me to have high expectations of online answers to difficult questions due to low context and intellectual desperation. A learning experience in its own. Definitely invaluable to hear the points nonetheless and have frames of reference from other people, wouldn’t have been able to do this without it. But I’ve probably gone a bit overboard and overestimated the depth of analysis that can be done on the forum and underestimated the strength of in person experiential knowledge and the FSM.

Thanks for the reminder,
Dan

Hopefully, the handful of facts that I tossed out there along with all my pontificating, will be of some assistance and understanding of what you've got going on.


Mark...

 

[Beehanger]

Cardinal sin and posting 1 more video with a very obvious noise. Gunnahave to drive it on the highway before I can get someone to listen to it, so this is my best bet posting here for now.

It's that super loud ticking noise,luckily its obvious.

 

[OSS]

A slow motion sound track doesn’t help anyone. It sounded pretty normal at normal speed. A bit clanky.
After the engine has fully warmed up after driving it, check the valve lash clearances WHILE THE ENGINE IS HOT AND IDLING.
Looser than spec valves are noisy. You’ll hear right away if a valve was loose cuz the feeler fills in the gap.

 

[Beehanger]

A slow motion sound track doesn’t help anyone. It sounded pretty normal at normal speed. A bit clanky.
After the engine has fully warmed up after driving it, check the valve lash clearances WHILE THE ENGINE IS HOT AND IDLING.
Looser than spec valves are noisy. You’ll hear right away if a valve was loose cuz the feeler fills in the gap.

Literally check while the engine is idling? I’ll give it a shot…

 

[OSS]

Yes. Make sure to reconnect the PCV hose if removing it to pull the valve cover.