The head itself is just a component of the engine. The head won't fail if you leave it with no engine attached to.
24v advantages
- Thread starter Gold Boy
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The head itself is just a component of the engine. The head won't fail if you leave it with no engine attached to.
I happen to like the center tap sysem on the headlights
Seriously, yes sourcing stuff is a pain in the ass, but I'm a dork and I enjoy the simple pleasure of my 3B jumping to life instantly when I hit the starter. By far the best starting vehicle I have ever seen. Not bad for a 23 year old engine.
Am I wrong that 12v starting just can match this? I forget the equation, but the 24v stuff can essentially pull more power more efficiently, hence the NATO spec. etc.
B
Seriously, yes sourcing stuff is a pain in the ass, but I'm a dork and I enjoy the simple pleasure of my 3B jumping to life instantly when I hit the starter. By far the best starting vehicle I have ever seen. Not bad for a 23 year old engine.
Am I wrong that 12v starting just can match this? I forget the equation, but the 24v stuff can essentially pull more power more efficiently, hence the NATO spec. etc.
B
- Thread starter
- #23
so what parts can't you sorce?
lol
I can source anything, I just can't go to my local parts store and get a starter, alternator, bulbs, etc. as others have said. That is not the case with my Mercedes.
There is the additional issue of the fact that diesel TLCs were never imported into the 'States. $OR is becoming a better source though.
B
- Thread starter
- #25
not as bad here, but still have to special order stuff...
as far as i know a lot caterpillar equipment is 24v as well.
i was told that 24v light bulbs last longer.
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Yes, 24V on paper should be better from a current consumption point of view. In reality 24V has caused me more problems than it's worth and that's PRACTICAL experience IN THE BUSH. And I am an EE.
The issue is if one battery goes 'weak', and that HAS happened to me, the 24V system will NOT start. The weak battery just dies rapidly and does not allow the starter to crank fast enough, glow plugs to heat and/or fuel cutoff motor to function. Yes, we can talk about 'well maintained' till the cows come in, but batteries DO die overnight.
Once one battery goes 'weak' a 24V system cannot charge it back up, you will find the 'good' battery overshadows the 'weak' one. The alternator just cannot get the 2 batteries balanced. The only way to correct the situation is to take a 12V charger and get the 'weak' one topped back up again.
I know that I've had one good battery and the second one has gone 'weak' and it is impossible to crank the engine over to the point of starting it.
After converting my 4wd to 12V I started it on one weak 45a/hr 12V battery. It cranked slower than I've ever had my 24V system try to crank and after a couple of attempts it started. I've NEVER been able to start the same vehicle at that speed with the 24V setup. I'm guessing that either the 24V glow plugs or the 24V fuel cutoff motor just couldn't do the job when presented with one good and one weak battery.
Either way, the 24V system is just a pain in the rear that I don't have to face anymore. Nissan & Toyota went away from 24V systems to 12V systems for a good reason. The reason automakers are looking at going to 36V or higher are for all the b/s accessories that new vehicles are getting buried under - power seats/seat heaters/ECU's in every gadget, power windows, sunroof motors, media systems etc etc etc.
Simple question to folk that think 24V is as or more reliable - have you heard of folk with dual 12V batteries not being able to get going under their own steam with A flat battery AND have you heard of folk with 24V vehicles not being able to start under their own steam with A flat battery?
Wiring - I converted my 4wd to 12V from 24V and I had access to the wiring harness of the 12V vehicle and the wire gauge was the same for both. Yes, 24V has nominally 1/2 the current, but that's really only an issue with a couple of cables - starter motor, headlights and winch. The rest of the wire's only carry a couple or so amps.
Finally, I doubt we'll come to an agreement which is better. I'll just say I spent 10 FULL days converting mine from 24V to 12V and felt I had a much more dependable vehicle when done (from a starting perspective).
I've driven many tracks and non-tracks in the oz bush (1000's of miles) in a lone vehicle and I was never stranded due to the 24V system. When I was a lone vehicle I was VERY conservative about battery condition etc - but each time I started the vehicle I was VERY conscious of how fast it cranked over. I knew IF the engine fired over, the diesel reliablity would get me home. It was the "IF" part that always was a worry....
cheers,
george.
The issue is if one battery goes 'weak', and that HAS happened to me, the 24V system will NOT start. The weak battery just dies rapidly and does not allow the starter to crank fast enough, glow plugs to heat and/or fuel cutoff motor to function. Yes, we can talk about 'well maintained' till the cows come in, but batteries DO die overnight.
Once one battery goes 'weak' a 24V system cannot charge it back up, you will find the 'good' battery overshadows the 'weak' one. The alternator just cannot get the 2 batteries balanced. The only way to correct the situation is to take a 12V charger and get the 'weak' one topped back up again.
I know that I've had one good battery and the second one has gone 'weak' and it is impossible to crank the engine over to the point of starting it.
After converting my 4wd to 12V I started it on one weak 45a/hr 12V battery. It cranked slower than I've ever had my 24V system try to crank and after a couple of attempts it started. I've NEVER been able to start the same vehicle at that speed with the 24V setup. I'm guessing that either the 24V glow plugs or the 24V fuel cutoff motor just couldn't do the job when presented with one good and one weak battery.
Either way, the 24V system is just a pain in the rear that I don't have to face anymore. Nissan & Toyota went away from 24V systems to 12V systems for a good reason. The reason automakers are looking at going to 36V or higher are for all the b/s accessories that new vehicles are getting buried under - power seats/seat heaters/ECU's in every gadget, power windows, sunroof motors, media systems etc etc etc.
Simple question to folk that think 24V is as or more reliable - have you heard of folk with dual 12V batteries not being able to get going under their own steam with A flat battery AND have you heard of folk with 24V vehicles not being able to start under their own steam with A flat battery?
Wiring - I converted my 4wd to 12V from 24V and I had access to the wiring harness of the 12V vehicle and the wire gauge was the same for both. Yes, 24V has nominally 1/2 the current, but that's really only an issue with a couple of cables - starter motor, headlights and winch. The rest of the wire's only carry a couple or so amps.
Finally, I doubt we'll come to an agreement which is better. I'll just say I spent 10 FULL days converting mine from 24V to 12V and felt I had a much more dependable vehicle when done (from a starting perspective).
I've driven many tracks and non-tracks in the oz bush (1000's of miles) in a lone vehicle and I was never stranded due to the 24V system. When I was a lone vehicle I was VERY conservative about battery condition etc - but each time I started the vehicle I was VERY conscious of how fast it cranked over. I knew IF the engine fired over, the diesel reliablity would get me home. It was the "IF" part that always was a worry....
cheers,
george.
George:
Since you are an electrical engineer and have more insight to this issue, do you think going from two 12V batteries in series to a single 24V battery is a worthwhile effort? As in, will it do away with the balance problem? And then to run 12V accessories, just use a regular 24-12V step-down converter like the ICT?
Cheers,
Stone
Since you are an electrical engineer and have more insight to this issue, do you think going from two 12V batteries in series to a single 24V battery is a worthwhile effort? As in, will it do away with the balance problem? And then to run 12V accessories, just use a regular 24-12V step-down converter like the ICT?
Cheers,
Stone
In a 24V battery you still have 12 elements but in a single bigger box.
My understanding is the probabilities of having an element fail in dual-battery 12V system and a 24V system are the same (same number of elements), but the dual 12V will still have one functionnal battery. In a plain 24V system you have no redundancy.
My understanding is the probabilities of having an element fail in dual-battery 12V system and a 24V system are the same (same number of elements), but the dual 12V will still have one functionnal battery. In a plain 24V system you have no redundancy.
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A single 24V battery would most likely stay more 'balanced' than 2 batteries. The engineer in me thinks that having a single 24V battery would a) have cells that are better matched since they were built at the same time same and b) would be subjected to the same temperature.
Obviously the advantage of a dual 12V setup (12V system) is the redundancy of 2 batteries. The only way to get that kind of redundancy with the 24V system is to have 4 x 12V batteries or 2 x 24V batteries (or 3 x 12V batteries if you had a spare 12V that you could charge via a converter...).
cheers,
george.
Obviously the advantage of a dual 12V setup (12V system) is the redundancy of 2 batteries. The only way to get that kind of redundancy with the 24V system is to have 4 x 12V batteries or 2 x 24V batteries (or 3 x 12V batteries if you had a spare 12V that you could charge via a converter...).
cheers,
george.
Well, I just couldn't fit an 8274 under the back of my BJ42 without sacrificing too much ground clearance....
There were a few different motors that came with the XD9000 and I am taking my smaller motor off and putting on the larger 12V 8274-type motor. The brake design on the XD is a little better than on the M series winches, but not much.
I have, in a pinch, powered up an old M8000 with 24V and the bushings howled in pain. I'll tear into the XD and re-grease it before I subject it to 24V. Resutls will be posted when I get around to trying thiis out (still a few weeks/months off... the BJ42 is in pieces all over my shop).
i understand where you are coming from, the 8274 would be a bugger to fit back there...
BTW, i have a 24V factory low profile Land Cruiser winch for sale... hint hint...
cheers and peace...
this is just too funny... not even worth commenting on...
24Volt conversion to 12V
George,
I picked up a BJ40 from Italy and have it now here in Germany... I am converting it to 12V from the 24V system it has. I would like a complete conversion but would like to ask you a few questions...
1. what is a comperable starter to the 24V unit?
2. Is there anything you would also recommend replacing or converting to 12V beside the Alt and starter?
I have a DC to DC converter rated at: 24V input, output 13.6V, peak amp draw is 80, max continuous draw is 60 amp.
I was planning to keep the system at 24V and convert the lights, guages and any other accessories to 12V, this sounded better as I would not have to pull off of one battery and draw it down to get the 12V I needed... Your view?
I have not received my tech manual or diagrams yet, I am quite familiar with electricity and electronics but do not want to dive in until I have the facts..
Cheers.
Glenn B
George,
I picked up a BJ40 from Italy and have it now here in Germany... I am converting it to 12V from the 24V system it has. I would like a complete conversion but would like to ask you a few questions...
1. what is a comperable starter to the 24V unit?
2. Is there anything you would also recommend replacing or converting to 12V beside the Alt and starter?
I have a DC to DC converter rated at: 24V input, output 13.6V, peak amp draw is 80, max continuous draw is 60 amp.
I was planning to keep the system at 24V and convert the lights, guages and any other accessories to 12V, this sounded better as I would not have to pull off of one battery and draw it down to get the 12V I needed... Your view?
I have not received my tech manual or diagrams yet, I am quite familiar with electricity and electronics but do not want to dive in until I have the facts..
Cheers.
Glenn B
Bringing this thread back from the dead as I just found myself stranded due to a weak battery. Was clueless why and now I know. So much knowledge in here!
You ever get an answer about the voltage regulator?
Another thread mentioned a load balancer?
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Load balancers were pretty popular for 24 volt trucks in 2006, I haven't heard much about them lately. Some people swore by them, others claimed they would often run down both batteries- although they would do it equally...
Back in 2006, I would do a monthly battery check with a voltmeter and if one battery was different than the other, I would use a single 12v charger to recharge each battery to specifications.
These days, I have a dual 12 volt charger ( NOCO - 2-Bank 8A On-Board Battery Charger - GENM2 ) and have it permanently installed as a battery tender.
I've never had a single side get weak and die in the past 14 years and I seem to get about 6 years out of a pair of batteries.
I am very careful about matching batteries and get similar dates and serial numbers when I replace batteries, get the largest batteries that can fit and make the most economic sense between warranty and cranking power, never run 12 volt loads off single batteries, and if I burn out a headlight on one side- it gets replaced immediately and the batteries get a balancing recharge.
Back in 2006, I would do a monthly battery check with a voltmeter and if one battery was different than the other, I would use a single 12v charger to recharge each battery to specifications.
These days, I have a dual 12 volt charger ( NOCO - 2-Bank 8A On-Board Battery Charger - GENM2 ) and have it permanently installed as a battery tender.
I've never had a single side get weak and die in the past 14 years and I seem to get about 6 years out of a pair of batteries.
I am very careful about matching batteries and get similar dates and serial numbers when I replace batteries, get the largest batteries that can fit and make the most economic sense between warranty and cranking power, never run 12 volt loads off single batteries, and if I burn out a headlight on one side- it gets replaced immediately and the batteries get a balancing recharge.
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If I was going to get and run a load balancer these days I would be looking to the Redarc products such as this: 25A Charge Equalizer
Any load balancer (or converter if you want to convert 24V-12V instead of tapping and load balancing) will have a draw when it is powered up. If you don't drive the truck often it will drain the batteries over time. If load balancing you will have nicely balanced batteries and a no start situation. Shore power or full time solar on the roof if outside all the time will mitigate this problem.
The Noco two bank charger is a great solution. I have one and have used on my 80 (two batteries in parallel with a Blue Sea ML-ACR in between) and on the BJ74 (two batteries in series with a 24-12v converter supplying my 12V needs). I've also a Noco G7200 that I have used for a number of years on the BJ74 and over the winter on the BJ42 (24V as well) in 24V mode. Both work well and I will continue to use them. I did find a weakness in the Noco though, this last year.
With the current build features you can not use the Noco if you have an intermittent load (such as a fridge/freezer) that will be on and cycling. It confuses the Noco and it will shut off.
hth's
gb
Any load balancer (or converter if you want to convert 24V-12V instead of tapping and load balancing) will have a draw when it is powered up. If you don't drive the truck often it will drain the batteries over time. If load balancing you will have nicely balanced batteries and a no start situation. Shore power or full time solar on the roof if outside all the time will mitigate this problem.
The Noco two bank charger is a great solution. I have one and have used on my 80 (two batteries in parallel with a Blue Sea ML-ACR in between) and on the BJ74 (two batteries in series with a 24-12v converter supplying my 12V needs). I've also a Noco G7200 that I have used for a number of years on the BJ74 and over the winter on the BJ42 (24V as well) in 24V mode. Both work well and I will continue to use them. I did find a weakness in the Noco though, this last year.
With the current build features you can not use the Noco if you have an intermittent load (such as a fridge/freezer) that will be on and cycling. It confuses the Noco and it will shut off.
hth's
gb