2013 Land Cruiser on 20" Platinum Wheels (3 Viewers)
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20" LX570 wheels; 20" wheels should be an option when ordering/buying an LC like the ones sold in Europe LC 200's
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I miss the old days of 16's on the Cruiser myself, guess the brakes just got too big... I'll take as much sidewall as I can get, just saying
bjowett
Supporting Vendor
You can run some 17" wheels, and fit larger 14"/354mm brakes. One nice thing about the 20's, though, is that some monster brakes will fit in there.
that's the main reason i changed to 20's. will post pictures as soon as i have the brakes installed; Brembo 6-piston front and 4-piston rear
I understand bigger brakes are for the most part always better, and I'm still a little confused as to why the 40k Tundra has bigger brakes then the 80k 200 series, but I gotta say, I 've had my 200 for a month now and the brakes feel every bit as good as the brakes on the 2010 Tundra I just sold, am I missing something? Do they just not hold up as well over time? is it people with bigger tires, hauling trailer etc?
gaijin
GOLD Star
Assuming you mean 275/55R20 ...
Those tires are Load Index 111 tires and do not have enough load carrying capacity to be used on the Land Cruiser!!!
The OEM 285/60R18 tires for the Land Cruiser have a Load Index of 114.
At the factory recommended Cold Tire Inflation Pressure of 33psi F/R the OEM tires have a Load Limit of 2,512 pounds.
The MAXIMUM Load Limit for the 275/55R20 Michelin LTX M/S2 tires is only 2,403 pounds. NOT STRONG ENOUGH FOR USE ON YOUR LAND CRUISER!!
This is a potentially dangerous situation!
I would strongly suggest you change to a tire like the LT285/55R20 Michelin LTX A/T2 which has a Load Index of 122 and will work very well with the Land Cruiser: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=LTX+A%2FT+2&partnum=855R0LTXAT2V2&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes
Nowhere in any Toyota documentation will you find a recommendation to use any tire with a Load Index of 111 like the tires currently on your truck.
If you are in an accident, I strongly suspect the insurance companies involved would not look favorably on the fact that you have a tire that is not rated for your vehicle.
THIS IS SERIOUS!!!
ETA: @rvaupel23 - I have PM'd you in hope you read this message.
ETA: @rvaupel23 - I have e-mailed you in hope you read this message.
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I'm surprised to hear that this is such a serious situation...
For two reasons (and I could be wrong on both, I'm not an expert on the topic):
1) Aren't the load ratings PER TIRE, so assuming a 50/50 weigh distribution as a rough approximation, each tire would carry about 1/4 of the weight of the car. Which would suggest to me that unless the the truck was well in excess of 8,000lbs, there would be no issues with either tire provided appropriate inflation pressures were used.
2) The difference between a Load Index 111 and 114 appears quite small in my mind (see attached image -- source: DiscountTire.com). load carrying capacities for each appear to be:
111 - 2,403 lbs
114 - 2,601 lbs
both are listed under maximum air pressure. I'm surprised that the difference of <200 lbs in load carrying capacity would take a situation from well withing margin of error (i.e., factory level of comfort) to a very dangerous one.
Like I said before, I'm not an expert, and I'm all for playing things safely. At the same time, I'd hate for the original poster to react too quickly without doing some homework on their own...
Just my 2 cents
gaijin
GOLD Star
I'm surprised to hear that this is such a serious situation...
For two reasons (and I could be wrong on both, I'm not an expert on the topic):
1) Aren't the load ratings PER TIRE, so assuming a 50/50 weigh distribution as a rough approximation, each tire would carry about 1/4 of the weight of the car. Which would suggest to me that unless the the truck was well in excess of 8,000lbs, there would be no issues with either tire provided appropriate inflation pressures were used.
2) The difference between a Load Index 111 and 114 appears quite small in my mind (see attached image -- source: DiscountTire.com). load carrying capacities for each appear to be:
111 - 2,403 lbs
114 - 2,601 lbs
both are listed under maximum air pressure. I'm surprised that the difference of <200 lbs in load carrying capacity would take a situation from well withing margin of error (i.e., factory level of comfort) to a very dangerous one.
Like I said before, I'm not an expert, and I'm all for playing things safely. At the same time, I'd hate for the original poster to react too quickly without doing some homework on their own...
Just my 2 cents
It is dangerous. I'll explain again in a different way to make the point clearer.
Tire Load Limit/Pressure tables are published by the Tire and Rim Association, Inc.: http://www.us-tra.org/
Basically, the Tire and Rim Association provides the necessary information to determine which tires fit which applications.
In the case of the LC200, an SUV, there are a couple of guidelines which apply when choosing a tire size that can be used safely on the vehicle:
1. Half of the Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR) cannot exceed 94% of the Load Limit for the tire at the cold pressure used.
2. When using P-Metric tires on an SUV/Light Truck, the Load Limit must be increased by 10%.
Here's the door sticker for a typical LC200:
Since recommended Cold Tire Pressures are the same for Front and Rear, we must choose the higher GAWR which, in this case is 4,300 pounds.
Half of that GAWR is 2,150 pounds. Since the tire in question is a P-Metric tire, this must be increased by 10% which equals 2,365 pounds.
2,365 pounds can not be more than 94% of the Load Limit of the tire. Therefore, the MINIMUM tire Load Limit which can be used safely on the LC200 is approximately 2,516 pounds.
The Load Limit of the OEM 285/60-18 tires at the factory recommended Cold Tire Inflation Pressure of 33psi is 2,512 pounds.
The OEM tires with a Load Index of 114 meet the safety requirements spelled out by the TRA.
There is no amount of air you can put in the 275/55/R20 Michelin LTX M/S2's with a Load Index of 111 which will support the required 2,516 pounds. The MAXIMUM Load Limit for those tires is only 2,403 pounds at 44psi - 113 pounds/tire too low!
If rvaupel23 is making a common mistake and running his 20" Michelins at the same tire pressure as the OEM tires, then the Load Limit is further reduced to approximately 2,340 pounds - 176 pounds/tire too low.
It is not safe. Period. Full stop.
Not only does it endanger the safety of the owner of the vehicle, it endangers others on the road as well.
Further, it opens the owner up to serious liability issues should there be an accident because the owner chose to use a tire which does not meet the minimum performance characteristics (i.e. Load Limit) specified for the vehicle.
Do all the research you want, but please, know what the required performance parameters are - don't simply assume that because you are unaware of them they do not matter.
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So by your own math example, the factory tired are inadequate as they can only carry 2512 lbs per tire when 2516 lbs is required.
Not sure what to think here.
Also keep in mind that these are numbers for the Gross Weight. Under most circumstances you will not reach these weights.
Finally, keep in mind that most engineering designs have safety factors built in so that overloading a vehicle will not immediate cause a failure in the tire or vehicle.
I appreciate your desire for safety and your knowledge of weight ratings but I doubt he has anything to worry about.
Not sure what to think here.
Also keep in mind that these are numbers for the Gross Weight. Under most circumstances you will not reach these weights.
Finally, keep in mind that most engineering designs have safety factors built in so that overloading a vehicle will not immediate cause a failure in the tire or vehicle.
I appreciate your desire for safety and your knowledge of weight ratings but I doubt he has anything to worry about.
gaijin
GOLD Star
Please read more carefully
The factory tires have a Maximum Load Limit of 2,601 pounds - more than enough to meet the 2,516 pound requirement.
Consider for a moment the difference between Static Loading and Live Loading.
With Static Loading the vehicle is not moving - it is static. In this condition, you are correct, it is unlikely that anyone would exceed the GAWR. Of course, I'm sure many armored LC200's do, but that is a different story ...
With Live Loading the vehicle is in motion. In this condition, the load at each tire varies based on attitude, speed, road condition, etc. Make a sharp evasive maneuver and the load on the outside front tire dramatically increases. Hit a pot hole at 60 mph and the load on the involved tire dramatically increases. Conditions like these eat up those "safety factors" pretty quickly.
Based on what, your gut?
If (when?) one of those underrated tires blows, someone is injured and the insurance company puts the blame squarely on you for choosing to use equipment - in this case tires - that is not spec'd for use on your vehicle, what do you say then? "My gut told me it was OK?"
Sorry, engineering and science trump your gut on this one.
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I've researched the potential issue you've brought to our attention and here are my findings:
The rear (and heavier of front/rear) GAWR is in-fact 4,300 lbs.
The tires' max load (as listed on the sidewall of the tire) is 2,403 lbs.
Per the owners manual, if I divide the maximum load of the tire by 1.1 that number should be greater than 1/2 the GAWR.
2,403 / 1.1 = 2,185
4,300 / 2 = 2,150
Because 2,185 is greater than 2,150 I am within spec for these tires on this truck based on what the owner's manual provides as guidance in the maintenance section. No where else could I find any guidance and/or specifications relative to load ratings.
The rear (and heavier of front/rear) GAWR is in-fact 4,300 lbs.
The tires' max load (as listed on the sidewall of the tire) is 2,403 lbs.
Per the owners manual, if I divide the maximum load of the tire by 1.1 that number should be greater than 1/2 the GAWR.
2,403 / 1.1 = 2,185
4,300 / 2 = 2,150
Because 2,185 is greater than 2,150 I am within spec for these tires on this truck based on what the owner's manual provides as guidance in the maintenance section. No where else could I find any guidance and/or specifications relative to load ratings.
gaijin
GOLD Star
The parameters in the Owner's Manual are simplified guidelines based on the tire in question being a size recommended by Toyota for use on your vehicle.
The Owner's Manual also says this (emphasis mine):
■When inspecting or replacing tires
Observe the following precautions to prevent accidents. Failure to do so
may cause damage to parts of the drive train, as well as dangerous handling characteristics, which may lead to an accident resulting in death or
serious injury.
●Do not mix tires of different makes, models or tread patterns.
Also, do not mix tires of remarkably different treadwear.
●Do not use tire sizes other than those recommended by Toyota.
●Do not mix differently constructed tires (radial, bias-belted or bias-ply
tires).
●Do not mix summer, all season and snow tires.
●Do not use tire that have been used on another vehicle.
Do not use tires if you do not know they were used previously.
The only tire sizes recommended by Toyota for use on the 2013 Land Cruiser are P285/60R18 and LT285/70R17.
Your calculations above are correct - as far as they go..
However, that is not the whole story.
When determining if a tire size/Load Index which is NOT recommended by Toyota is acceptable, one must apply the full formula as spelled out by the Tire and Rim Association.
The full formula is that GAWR/2 must be < 94% of the tires Load Limit divided by 1.1 in the case of a P-Metric tire.
In the case of your Michelins, and using their maximum Load Limit, we see the following:
4,300 / 2 = 2,150
2,403 / 1.1 = 2,185
2,150 / 2,185 = 98% Should be < 94% so is unacceptable.
The same calc for the OEM P285/60R18 tires:
4,300 / 2 = 2,150
2,601 / 1.1 = 2,365
2,150 / 2,365 = 91% which is < 94% and is acceptable.
If Toyota did have a recommended 20" tire size for the 2013 Land Cruiser, I'm sure we would find that it would have a Load Index higher than the 111 of your current Michelins for the reasons shown here.
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gaijin
GOLD Star
If - and in this case it is NOT the case - the Load Index were acceptable and the tires were properly inflated, then no, I would not be concerned with using properly sized tires with a T rating as opposed to a V rating.
Of course, with a T-rated tire, your maximum speed must be limited to <118 mph. Since the 2013 Land Cruiser is easily capable of speeds in excess of 118 mph, you should be mindful of this if using a tire with a speed rating less than the OEM tires.
Further, please read the following from the Tirerack site (emphasis mine):
Speed Rating
In Germany some highways do not have speed limits and high speed driving is permitted. Speed ratings were established to match the speed capability of tires with the top speed capability of the vehicles to which they are applied. Speed ratings are established in kilometers per hour and subsequently converted to miles per hour (which explains why speed ratings appear established at "unusual" mile per hour increments). Despite the tire manufacturer's ability to manufacturer tires capable of high speeds, none of them recommend the use of their products in excess of legal speed limits. The maximum operating speed of a vehicle must be limited to the lowest speed rated tire on the vehicle.
Speed ratings are based on laboratory tests where the tire is pressed against a large diameter metal drum to reflect its appropriate load, and run at ever increasing speeds (in 6.2 mph steps in 10 minute increments) until the tire's required speed has been met.
It is important to note that speed ratings only apply to tires that have not been damaged, altered, under-inflated or overloaded. Additionally, most tire manufacturers maintain that a tire that has been cut or punctured no longer retains the tire manufacturer's original speed rating, even after being repaired because the tire manufacturer can't control the quality of the repair.
If you choose to continue to use your 20" Michelins, then you should treat them as overloaded tires and limit your speed even further.
How slow is safe? In my opinion, none - the tires are unsafe on this vehicle.
Of course as with everything in life, the choice is yours.
I do not have a dog in this hunt since I am not interested in dubs 
, but for the US market, there is a 20" wheel and tire combo that is approved on the Lexus version of the 200 - the LX 570.
The standard tire for the LX570 is either the Michelin Latitude Tour HP in 285/50R20 with a 111 Load Index and a V speed rating or a Dunlop Grand Trek PT2A in 285/50R20 with the same 111 / V load index / speed rating.
That said, I do not know what the GAWRs are for the LX570, but I guess they could differ from the "down market" Toyota product
I offer this up as merely a point of reference since the LX and the LC share a platform.
, but for the US market, there is a 20" wheel and tire combo that is approved on the Lexus version of the 200 - the LX 570.The standard tire for the LX570 is either the Michelin Latitude Tour HP in 285/50R20 with a 111 Load Index and a V speed rating or a Dunlop Grand Trek PT2A in 285/50R20 with the same 111 / V load index / speed rating.
That said, I do not know what the GAWRs are for the LX570, but I guess they could differ from the "down market" Toyota product
I offer this up as merely a point of reference since the LX and the LC share a platform.
I do not have a dog in this hunt since I am not interested in dubs
The standard tire for the LX570 is either the Michelin Latitude Tour HP in 285/50R20 with a 111 Load Index and a V speed rating or a Dunlop Grand Trek PT2A in 285/50R20 with the same 111 / V load index / speed rating.
That said, I do not know what the GAWRs are for the LX570, but I guess they could differ from the "down market" Toyota product
I offer this up as merely a point of reference since the LX and the LC share a platform.
^^^ that's a good point, I don't want 20's either, but sense this is the only thread that gets any post in the 200 series fourm, I"m reading right along
gaijin
GOLD Star
I do not have a dog in this hunt since I am not interested in dubs
The standard tire for the LX570 is either the Michelin Latitude Tour HP in 285/50R20 with a 111 Load Index and a V speed rating or a Dunlop Grand Trek PT2A in 285/50R20 with the same 111 / V load index / speed rating.
That said, I do not know what the GAWRs are for the LX570, but I guess they could differ from the "down market" Toyota product
I offer this up as merely a point of reference since the LX and the LC share a platform.
Interesting point!
The Michelin Latitude Tour HP tires are available in a 112 V rating as well as a 111 V rating. Could it not be possible that the 112 V type, which would meet the spec, is the approved tire?
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Latitude+Tour+HP&partnum=85VR0LTHPV2&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes
Do you have any documentation, door jamb sticker pics, etc. to support the recommendation of the 111 V Dunlops?
Most of the tires available in 285/50R20 are rated at least 112 and up to 116.
It seems counterintuitive to me that Toyota would recommend a 111 rated tire for the LX570.
All I could glean from the Lexus site is that the LX570 has "285/50R20 M+S rated tires." Not very helpful.
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I based the load index / speed rating on the OEM fitments for a 2013 LX 570 from Tire Rack. I looked at a few other sites and they list the same tires.
There is a pdf of specs available here but it does not provide detailed specs.
Edit: Found the spec in the owners manual available on the Lexus Owners site for a 2013 LX 570. The link to the section of the pdf is Here, scroll to page 10 or 28 (of the pdf ... or page 887 per the page numbers in the pdf) and the spec is "P285/50R20 111V".
For a 2013 LX 570, USA spec, that is an approved tire. I do not know if it is approved for any other spec of 200 series.
There is a pdf of specs available here but it does not provide detailed specs.
Edit: Found the spec in the owners manual available on the Lexus Owners site for a 2013 LX 570. The link to the section of the pdf is Here, scroll to page 10 or 28 (of the pdf ... or page 887 per the page numbers in the pdf) and the spec is "P285/50R20 111V".
For a 2013 LX 570, USA spec, that is an approved tire. I do not know if it is approved for any other spec of 200 series.
