2005 HDJ100 - Scary steering related incident - VSC TRC and VSC OFF lights both on - Codes: C1290, C1511 and C1500 found

[KiwiBogan]

G'day guys,

I had a strange and scary occurrence happen on the weekend where I was going around a long left veering bend on the freeway doing 100km/h (Australia) and suddenly the wheels, separate to the steering wheel, turned slightly to the right sending me towards the concrete wall that divides the north/south bound lanes. I just managed to correct it without side swiping the wall at high speed. During the incident, the VSC TRC and VSC OFF lights both came on and the car continued to drive and steer as normal until I was able to exit the freeway and pull over to assess the situation and clean the poo from the seat of my pants. After turning off the engine and restarting the car, the lights went off. Since then, I have driven the car daily with no problems.

Last night, I ran my ELM327 BT dongle + ELMScan Toyota app and managed to pull some codes (see below). Not sure how long they've been there but upon googling them, they do appear to be steering related on other Toyota vehicles. I cleared the codes last night and have been driving a lot today throughout the hills and on the freeway and cannot get the problem to reoccur or the codes to reappear.

The Codes originally pulled were:

C1290 - Steering Angle Zero Point Malfunction
C1511 - Torque Sensor Circuit Malfunction
C1500 - ?

No CEL light on. Car seems to be running fine now. The car has had the AHC suspension removed and Iron Man shocks and springs fitted all round by the previous owner. Steering seems to be fine and car handling and steering response has been excellent. I have on a side note noticed a bit of a "clunk" in the steering/suspension when say the car has been sitting for a bit and I turn the steering wheel, say to take off or reverse out of a park. Possibly related? Can anyone help explain what I might have experienced and where to start looking for problems.

Cheers

 

[KiwiBogan]

Well I think I worked out the problem. I've just discovered that the whole steering rack moved left to right separate to the frame it's bolted to under the car as the steering wheel is turned left to right. The main 2 bolts were a bit loose. Tightened them up and the steering feels heaps tighter and the steering didn't seem to drift at all in the usual corners it does on the test drive. Pretty happy I wasn't up for a new steering rack! Happy days!

 

[2001LC]

Issue I have, when helping those outside North America. Is variation in 100 series platform. But here's some food for thought.

The number one cause of sudden ABS activation, resulting in steering issues on dry pavement (no tire slippage) on HWY curves or ruts. Loose wheel bearings.
When wheel bearings loose, wheels hub(s) wobble. The wheel speed sensor, used by ABS, may then get a false reading. Reading wobble, as a wheel hub speed change. But we must consider the entry steering, suspension and stabilizer systems. To much slop, and wheels speed sensor(s) may get false readings.


Rack (AKA: R&P, AKA rack & pinion.
It is highly unlikely your rack bolts came loose, if factory installed. So either they weren't loose or R&P was replaced, and shop didn't use a torque wrench.
Steering rack are mounted with two bolts, one on LH and one on right side, in 2003 up 100 series. The mounts in the rack, which bolt pass through. Are rubber core, sandwiched between steel inner bushing and outer cup. The mounting bolts have a specific torque spec of 89ft-lbf. The rack with its rubber bushings, is designed to move side to side. If side to side motion, exceeds design limitation (bad bushing). This too can result in sensors, reading variation in wheel speed, activation ABS. Bad R&P bushing result in wondering on HWY and lag in steering wheel returning to center line of travel after a turn.
Normal side to side movement of a new R&P:


Few things I'm assuming and suggesting:
You have VRGS?
You've had the VRGS snap ring recall work done?

Have you zero point calibrated the ABS, then zero point calibrated the VGRS steering and gone through calibration of VGRS procedure?

VRGS, ABS, with AHC is somewhat integrated system. A few, have had issues with VGRS steering after removing AHC. Also if VGRS not properly calibrated, we can have issues. The VGRS actuator is very robust, and hard to damaged. Unless upward ( forward blow, toward steering wheel) blow to intermediate shaft #1 (actuator) or intermediate shaft #2 or rack (frontal impact, like what can happen in an accident) transfer blow to actuator. TSB be warns, this can damaged actuator.

Very often when a shop replace the R&P. They use and air hammer to desloge #2 intermediate shaft u-joint from R&P at union. Doing so results upward blows to actuator. It is a bad practice, in many shops. Which, Toyota warn against in the VGRS snap ring recall procedure TBS. This TSB also gives calibration procedures.

 

[KiwiBogan]

Issue I have, when helping those outside North America. Is variation in 100 series platform. But here's some food for thought.

The number one cause of sudden ABS activation, resulting in steering issues on dry pavement (no tire slippage) on HWY curves or ruts. Loose wheel bearings.
When wheel bearings loose, wheels hub(s) wobble. The wheel speed sensor, used by ABS, may then get a false reading. Reading wobble, as a wheel hub speed change. But we must consider the entry steering, suspension and stabilizer systems. To much slop, and wheels speed sensor(s) may get false readings.


Rack (AKA: R&P, AKA rack & pinion.
It is highly unlikely your rack bolts came loose, if factory installed. So either they weren't loose or R&P was replaced, and shop didn't use a torque wrench.
Steering rack are mounted with two bolts, one on LH and one on right side, in 2003 up 100 series. The mounts in the rack, which bolt pass through. Are rubber core, sandwiched between steel inner bushing and outer cup. The mounting bolts have a specific torque spec of 89ft-lbf. The rack with its rubber bushings, is designed to move side to side. If side to side motion, exceeds design limitation (bad bushing). This too can result in sensors, reading variation in wheel speed, activation ABS. Bad R&P bushing result in wondering on HWY and lag in steering wheel returning to center line of travel after a turn.
Normal side to side movement of a new R&P:


Few things I'm assuming and suggesting:
You have VRGS?
You've had the VRGS snap ring recall work done?

Have you zero point calibrated the ABS, then zero point calibrated the VGRS steering and gone through calibration of VGRS procedure?

VRGS, ABS, with AHC is somewhat integrated system. A few, have had issues with VGRS steering after removing AHC. Also if VGRS not properly calibrated, we can have issues. The VGRS actuator is very robust, and hard to damaged. Unless upward ( forward blow, toward steering wheel) blow to intermediate shaft #1 (actuator) or intermediate shaft #2 or rack (frontal impact, like what can happen in an accident) transfer blow to actuator. TSB be warns, this can damaged actuator.

Very often when a shop replace the R&P. They use and air hammer to desloge #2 intermediate shaft u-joint from R&P at union. Doing so results upward blows to actuator. It is a bad practice, in many shops. Which, Toyota warn against in the VGRS snap ring recall procedure TBS. This TSB also gives calibration procedures.

Thanks for the response. I appreciate the good information. Theirs a lot to process in all that. I haven't had the car long, bought "sight unseen" and am slowly discovering and working through all the little (and big) problems. The car has done over half a million KMs. I've noticed a few issues around the place possibly relating to the previous owner mechanic not knowing what he was doing. Alternator pulley tensioner locking bolt fell out not long after owning the car and tensioner was loose. Alternator is brand new and was a nightmare to tighten due to the intercooler piping being in that way and corrosion on parts. I got the impression the mechanic just half "nipped" everything up to get the car ready for sale and left it at that. Steering rack looks to have been replaced at some stage. The movement I was seeing was like around maybe 10mm - 15mm left to right? It's definitely not original rack. I did notice the rubber boots there when tightening and was careful not to over tighten to the point the rubber bushes bulge, but also didn't use a torque wrench on them either. I might go back and readdress that at some stage soon. For now, it is working very well and feels a lot safer so I'm happy with it.

Car has VGRS. AHC has been removed by previous owner. I did run the the VGRS zero point calibration procedure successfully. Haven't heard of the ABS ZPC. I'll look into that or if you can share the procedure, I'll have a go at that. I've checked wheel bearings for play (one of the first things I did) and they are all good as far as far as I can tell. All bushes and joints around the steering system look to be in good condition. No play in the lower ball joints. Upper control arms look to have been replaced with the new Iron Man suspension when AHC was removed. Now I've got the steering fixed, I might run the zero point calibration again and clear the codes and see how it goes from there. Again, if you've got the instructions for the abs zero point calibration, that would be excellent and useful for others that stumble on this problem too!

Thanks mate

 

[2001LC]

ZPC: Look under ABS:
With vehicle level, wheels straight;
Reset Memory

Second:
Enter Test Mode

Then for VGRS:
Make sure to clear history of any "Rec."in VGRS, before calibration.

IIRC, this is in VGRS Utility

 

[KiwiBogan]

Thanks again! I've been waiting to share another update as I went through the calibrations mentioned above and it jas made some improvements. Though I wanted to test a bit more thoroughly before getting too excited.

Driving through the hills today, the ABS activated randomly a couple of times, but different to previous times. Their was a vibration, the two outside wheels (bearing the load as I was cornering) braked on/off and their was a beep noise from the dash during this time. It all felt quite controlled and not dangerous at all. But we were on the bituman not skidding at all. Also only happened on corners/bends when the car was facing down hill (a clue?).

I just had a chance to watch that video you shared of the movement in the steering rack. That looked about the same as what mine was doing pre-tightening.

I'm very sure the wheel bearings are fine but I'll double check again over the next few days and maybe even go through the calibration process again as per your instruction as I feel like I may have missed the clearing REC history part I could be wrong but I'll go back through it all again for good measure. I remember clearing codes, resetting the ABS, Auto trans ECU, and something else... I thought to myself at the time I had exhausted all the clearing/resetting options available to me. Keen to see if any new DTCs have popped up since.

Thanks again for holding my hand through this. Theirs a lot more going on with these buses than with my old KZJ95 Prado which I become quite knowledgeable with before moving on to the HDJ100. Big difference!

 

[2001LC]

Thanks again! I've been waiting to share another update as I went through the calibrations mentioned above and it jas made some improvements. Though I wanted to test a bit more thoroughly before getting too excited.

Driving through the hills today, the ABS activated randomly a couple of times, but different to previous times. Their was a vibration, the two outside wheels (bearing the load as I was cornering) braked on/off and their was a beep noise from the dash during this time. It all felt quite controlled and not dangerous at all. But we were on the bituman not skidding at all. Also only happened on corners/bends when the car was facing down hill (a clue?).

Typical, where ABS activates without braking on dry pavement. This is from of loose wheel bearings. The wheel hub(s) wobbles, confusing the wheel speed sensors. The loose Wheel hubs/bearing, shown in above video, is extreme. Properly set up wheel bearing preload. Wheel hubs, have zero play.

I have found (less common), where excessive front end movement, can kick-off traction control (ABS/VSC). Which can be Rack & Pinion, TRE's, ball joints, stabilizer system, shocks or combination of these not within design limitation.

If during braking, where no actual slippage (one wheel/tire traveling at different speed). This can indicate a braking system fault.

Brake pedal should never be pumped on/off, in ABS systems. Doing so, reduce brake system hydraulic pressure and confuses ABS. One example is a test to see if alarm is working. TEST: With key on, pump brake rapoddly pedal. Alarm will sound, indicating a drop in brake system hydraulic pressure.

I just had a chance to watch that video you shared of the movement in the steering rack. That looked about the same as what mine was doing pre-tightening.

I'm very sure the wheel bearings are fine but I'll double check again over the next few days and maybe even go through the calibration process again as per your instruction as I feel like I may have missed the clearing REC history part I could be wrong but I'll go back through it all again for good measure. I remember clearing codes, resetting the ABS, Auto trans ECU, and something else... I thought to myself at the time I had exhausted all the clearing/resetting options available to me. Keen to see if any new DTCs have popped up since.

Thanks again for holding my hand through this. Theirs a lot more going on with these buses than with my old KZJ95 Prado which I become quite knowledgeable with before moving on to the HDJ100. Big difference!

Here's yet another video, on checking LWR ball joints.

Early stage, bad LWR ball joint.


Late stange, bad LWR ball joint.

 

[KiwiBogan]

Quick update: I checked the front wheel bearings again for "play" the other day and thought maybe their was a very subtle amount. So small though it was hard to tell if it was the bearing or something else in the wheel/hub assembly. So I bought a front wheel bearing kit. Started with the driver's side. Pulled everything apart. The bearings look fine though slightly on the dry side. Grease looked clean. Seals like new. Bearings were like new with no scratches, discoloration or wear. I repacked the outer bearing which looked a tad dry and put it all back together (I'll come back to redo all this more thoroughly soon).

I did notice however during the process some slop between the CV axle shaft splines and the hub flange splines (see pics) You can turn the CV axle left/right about 0.5 - 1.0mm inside the hub flange. Not sure if that's enough to upset the ABS/ Traction control but I'm guessing it could be the culprit. So I've ordered a pair of new hub flanges to see if I can tighten that slop up. Axle shafts are not the originals and look to be in good condition so hopefully I don't need to replace them too. I'll keep you're all posted with how these flanges work out!

 

[2001LC]

Minor Hub flange and axle spline wear (play), has no effect on wheel speed sensor.

BTW: Light brown, kind of a muddy looking grease and hard to clean, Is, water in the grease.

 

[Bisho]

I had similar symptoms to you on my 2000. The steering rack bushings were shot. At 280k miles I replaced the rack. Not sure how many kms yours has, but it sure is odd the bolts were loose. If the bushings are shot, it won’t matter how tight the bolts are, when there is axial load on the rack, it will shift and cause the stability control to react.

 

[2001LC]

If not slop in front end or calibration issue. It may be a glitch.

So I've been going back over the above thread. This may be a case of ABS activation, due to a glitch caused when AHC removed, can also be related to VGRS steering. ABS, VGRS & AHC, use many of same sensory inputs. They all talk to each other, glitch in one, can effect others.

You said in OP statement: "separate to the steering wheel". Did it feel as if steering wheel, was disconnected from steering rack & pinion (road)?

When, centering steering wheel in a VRGS system. It's done in tech stream, by electronically disconnecting steering wheel from R&P. The disconnect feel, is unmistakable. Is this what you felt for a moment while your issue accrued?

I've attached a VGRS snap ring recall service TSB. It has a warning (Do not pound in direction of steering wheel) and calibration procedures, you may find interesting. Doing all calibration, may help. It is certainly, a good idea to make sure, all as should be.

If steering wheel was disconnecting, VGRS may be part of issue. I'm not saying VGRS your issue. But perhaps it is part of issue. Make sure ABS and VGRS calibrations, are spot on just a first step. Also note test when idling in park, turning steering wheel lock to lock. 2 1/3 tuns indicates VGRS is activated, as it should be.

Note on a "glitch": It seems to accrue in some, after "some" AHC removed. I suspect it has to do with disconnect some wire(s) possible to get combinations meter (dash) AHC light to stay off. Someone once told me. There is a fix, for intermittent ABS activation, in a thread in mud. I never look for it! These activation, may be violet or just momentary tiny jeck of steering wheel.

 

[KiwiBogan]

If not slop in front end or calibration issue. It may be a glitch.

So I've been going back over the above thread. This may be a case of ABS activation, due to a glitch caused when AHC removed, can also be related to VGRS steering. ABS, VGRS & AHC, use many of same sensory inputs. They all talk to each other, glitch in one, can effect others.

You said in OP statement: "separate to the steering wheel". Did it feel as if steering wheel, was disconnected from steering rack & pinion (road)?

When, centering steering wheel in a VRGS system. It's done in tech stream, by electronically disconnecting steering wheel from R&P. The disconnect feel, is unmistakable. Is this what you felt for a moment while your issue accrued?

I've attached a VGRS snap ring recall service TSB. It has a warning (Do not pound in direction of steering wheel) and calibration procedures, you may find interesting. Doing all calibration, may help. It is certainly, a good idea to make sure, all as should be.

If steering wheel was disconnecting, VGRS may be part of issue. I'm not saying VGRS your issue. But perhaps it is part of issue. Make sure ABS and VGRS calibrations, are spot on just a first step. Also note test when idling in park, turning steering wheel lock to lock. 2 1/3 tuns indicates VGRS is activated, as it should be.

Note on a "glitch": It seems to accrue in some, after "some" AHC removed. I suspect it has to do with disconnect some wire(s) possible to get combinations meter (dash) AHC light to stay off. Someone once told me. There is a fix, for intermittent ABS activation, in a thread in mud. I never look for it! These activation, may be violet or just momentary tiny jeck of steering wheel.

Hey mate, thanks for the thoughtful reply. I greatly appreciate it. Yes I have AHC removed and replaced with iron man suspension. I've pulled the plug to the AHC ECU to successfully remove dash lights. The car is very high KMs (over half a million). I've reduced problem to just abs kicking in intermittently. Have replaced the wheel bearings on what I thought was the worst side to no avail. About to do the other side when I get a moment. The ABS kicking in only seems to happen at lower speeds when cornering so no longer poses a risk. Just annoying now. Would like it to not do it!

 

[2001LC]

ABS kicking on when not actually called for by road condition, can be dangerous. If it get worse, while doing 70MPH on a mounting sweeping turn. It could be deadly!

Try reconnecting AHC ECU, as a test
____________

In post #3 video, I show how very loose wheel bearings, result in wheel hub wobble. Keep in mind, that one was an extreme case.
Any detectable play, in wheel bearings. Indicates, they're past due proper servicing. But if wheel bearing play, so minor it's near undictable. Then, it's not likely kicking in ABS. I suppose you'll not know, until both side preload is set properly.

If after getting all front end components to spec. If you still, get this minor ABS glitch. Look close at AHC delete. Perhaps reconnecting what turned off dash AHC light, may help.

An 03LX I saw a minor ABS activation. Which at first was very violent and scary to drive, as it jerk to the right violently. It began 2 years after AHC delete, lift and new rack & pinion (R&P) installed. We found the volent part, was a VGRS actuator failed (2 years earlier). It had been damaged in accident and further damaged during improper technique used during R&P removel.

Note: Lexus VGRS snap ring recall, specifically warns: Do not pound on steering intermediate shaft, in direction of steering wheel. Doing so can damage the actuator. Unfortunately most shops do this, during R&P removable.

His steering, would violently jerk vehicle to the right. Once VGRS actuator replaced, it was no longer a violent jerk. But it still intermittently made a minor jecks felt in steering wheel. Seem to begin after about 35 MPH reached, then any speed. Felt like a tiny twitch in steering wheel. I believe it was, ABS activating a single front brake caliper momentarily. The 03LX was sold, without me having chance to explore this last piece of the puzzle.

I'll repeat this "Note" I posted above.
"Note on a "glitch": It seems to accrue in some, after "some" AHC removed. I suspect it has to do with disconnect some wire(s) possible to get combinations meter (dash) AHC light to stay off. Someone once told me: There is a fix, for intermittent ABS activation, in a thread in mud. I never look for it! These activation, may be violet or just momentary tiny jeck of steering wheel"

 

[KiwiBogan]

Thanks for the comments and suggestions. I've replaced the F/R wheel bearing. The issue occurred once since then and has not occurred again since. So I think I've just about solved the problems. I'll do the other side this weekend if I get a chance. I haven't plugged the AHC ECU back in yet either. Will keep that in mind if the issue keeps happening but in the meantime happy to not have the flashing AHC light on the dash