200 Vs. 250 FE - Owners Perspective (1 Viewer)

[Corbet]

Pretty sure you can buy the 7pin to 4pin adapter from harbor freight and just plug it in. The car thinks it’s towing and should shut it off. Common trick on other vehicle brands, and I’m assuming it’s the same for Toyota?

I really thought the engine turning off was going to annoy me like my Wife’s Subaru. The electric motor offers enough instant reaction that it does not bother me. I don’t get anything I’d describe as a shutter but yes you do feel the engine restart. Could all be perspective. Compared to my 80 on 37’s the 250 feels ultra refined.

 

[OGBeno]

Compared to my 80 on 37’s the 250 feels ultra refined.

I mean, the 80 was designed between 1987-1989. I would hope the 250 series is leaps and bounds more refined.

 

[Corbet]

I mean, the 80 was designed between 1987-1989. I would hope the 250 series is leaps and bounds more refined.

Only time will tell but the build quality of the 80 feels better of the initial quality of the 250.

 

[OGBeno]

Only time will tell but the build quality of the 80 feels better of the initial quality of the 250.

Build quality and refinement are radically different things, IMO. A Tesla is a refined car indeed. It's a piece of sheeeeeeeit in terms of build quality.

 

[Corbet]

Build quality and refinement are radically different things, IMO. A Tesla is a refined car indeed. It's a piece of sheeeeeeeit in terms of build quality.

True, lets agree that I don't think they refined or improved the build quality.

 

[Specialeyes]

Well I just wrapped up my first ever test drive of a 250 and for all the stuff I like about it the drive train brought the experience down a bit much for me. Yes it has power and torque on demand but I found it to be jittery in stop and go driving and very buzzy when accelerating. Overall it’s a nice truck but I feel like it would be SO much better with a diesel or 6 cylinder option.

 

[Jetboy]

Speaking of "excess engine loads." The LC250 is also the first (that I know of) LC that uses electric fans. This is fine for a road vehicle but is not really in line with the Land Cruiser mantra. It's one extra failure point... and one where there is no easy trail fix. For hydraulic clutch fan, you can drill a few holes through the assembly, insert some screws and it'll lock the fan up and you are on your way.

FWIW - I know of a few examples of 4runner and Land Cruisers that have had the clutch seize and the fan catastrophically fail - usually on a down shift going up a pass. If you lock up a fan clutch, it's important to recognize that modern plastic fans aren't able to handle high rpms. Trail speeds should be okay. But probably needs to be uncoupled if you want to travel on the highway.

 

[hoser]

It likely was not the clutch that seized but rather the fan bracket bearing. Just like any bearing along the path of the serpentine belt can cause a breakdown. Often preceded by being pulley being loose/wobbly or the bearing making noise. There are some older LC's that don't have a clutch fan but rather a direct connection.

 

[lcgeek]

Well I just wrapped up my first ever test drive of a 250 and for all the stuff I like about it the drive train brought the experience down a bit much for me. Yes it has power and torque on demand but I found it to be jittery in stop and go driving and very buzzy when accelerating. Overall it’s a nice truck but it would be SO much better with diesel or 6 cylinder option.

Yes by all means we need a diesel option in the new Land Cruiser here in the US.

 

[Jetboy]

It likely was not the clutch that seized but rather the fan bracket bearing. Just like any bearing along the path of the serpentine belt can cause a breakdown. Often preceded by being pulley being loose/wobbly or the bearing making noise. There are some older LC's that don't have a clutch fan but rather a direct connection.

Do any of those have plastic fans? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we have to go back to the F engine to find one without a fan clutch and the F has a steel fan. I don't know of any where it didn't use a clutch but had a plastic fan.

If the bearing in the clutch assembly failed in a way that the fan wobbles it seems like it would also cause a failure. It would presumably seize the fan to the driven shaft and over-spin it along with potentially wobble.

I'm assuming you mean that bearing, not the water pump main shaft bearings - those fail too, but I've never heard of that causing or being associated with the fan blade failures.

Either way - I think locking up a plastic fan blade and spinning up to 10k rpms is a pretty good path to some new dents in the hood.

 

[OSS]

A few very specific older 70 series vehicles designed primarily to be used as mining vehicles had a direct coupled fan with no fan clutch.

 

[Jetboy]

Isn't an electric fan a necessary part of the hybrid system due to the need to move air through the air conditioning condenser when the engine isn't running?

 

[Corbet]

Isn't an electric fan a necessary part of the hybrid system due to the need to move air through the air conditioning condenser when the engine isn't running?

We'll have none of that kind of common sense talk around here. The 250 is clearly flawed for not having a mechanically driven fan with a clutch.

 

[hoser]

@Jetboy The direct drove fan I’m most familiar with is on some 70 series with B series engines. They had plastic fans. These aren’t just mine trucks. However, they are low revving diesel engines. I’m not suggesting redlining the engine while limping home. Just suggesting that you can get home.

Fan Blade & Clutch Tech for BJ7x with 3B/13BT (A440F & H55F Models)

It might be on a slight angle, I'll try some skinny washers to build it up straight if I have to. Or notch the washer some. Looks like the hub of the water pump will fit inside the tapered clutch hub 👍

forum.ih8mud.com

Isn't an electric fan a necessary part of the hybrid system due to the need to move air through the air conditioning condenser when the engine isn't running?

You can have a separate electric fan for the condenser. Even my 100 series has a separate electric fan for the condenser.

We'll have none of that kind of common sense talk around here. The 250 is clearly flawed for not having a mechanically driven fan with a clutch.

There’s nothing wrong with electric fans, Jeep JK/JL’s use electric fans.

 

[SlimCruiser]

It's hysterical to me to read these threads and see 200 series owners who think they have the "real deal" heavy duty Land Cruiser. You don't. You have the "wagon" version, the family hauler. The REAL DEAL land cruiser is the 70 series. This new 250 is more legit to the original philosophy than the bloated and softened 200 series. Are you an outdoorsman? Or a dentist?

 

[Specialeyes]

It's hysterical to me to read these threads and see 200 series owners who think they have the "real deal" heavy duty Land Cruiser. You don't. You have the "wagon" version, the family hauler. The REAL DEAL land cruiser is the 70 series. This new 250 is more legit to the original philosophy than the bloated and softened 200 series. Are you an outdoorsman? Or a dentist?

As a 200 owner (for a few more days anyway) I agree with you. However, the “wagon” line of LC’s are very stout, that’s a matter of fact. Not opinion.

*Edit to add the light duty rigs are plenty strong in their own right. I’ve seen plenty of Prado’s that looked like they had been to hell and back in places like Costa Rica and South Africa.

 

[VWEeplusa]

It's hysterical to me to read these threads and see 200 series owners who think they have the "real deal" heavy duty Land Cruiser. You don't. You have the "wagon" version, the family hauler. The REAL DEAL land cruiser is the 70 series. This new 250 is more legit to the original philosophy than the bloated and softened 200 series. Are you an outdoorsman? Or a dentist?

Why can't someone be both an outdoorsman and a dentist? Why can't we acknowledge that the 200 series is overbuilt compared to every other production vehicle on the market, regardless of what the 70 series is (which is really irrelevant considering its unavailability here for its first 25 yrs)? After all, that entire package is really why we are here and passionate about Land Cruisers, isn't it?

I always thought the real magic of the Land Cruiser was that we could have both luxury and off road quality. That we could have something overbuilt but still a daily driver. That we could get groceries AND go camping. I've had a diesel 60, an 80, a 100, three 200's, a GX550, two Tacomas, and two 4Runners. Half I took off-road, and half I babied as if they were museum pieces.

If you prefer the more utilitarian, toughest of the tough Land Cruiser series, have at it. If you want to get groceries, have at it too. Needless to say, go over to the 200 series threads and you'll see they are capable of much more than a 'wagon' and somehow their owners seem to be able to drive themselves off the trails with a smile on their faces.

What value does any of us get from poking bears like that......and on a forum dedicated to bears? Goofiness.

So the 70 series is your preference, and for you Land Cruisers are wholly utilitarian off road toughness. Great. I'm happy for you. Enjoy. Leave those with different and more varied priorities and interests to their different and more varied priorities and interests......or better yet go over to a Bronco/Defender forum and rip their waste of $70-110K there.

Its really all about choosing your bears more wisely.

 

[MRego]

Why can't someone be both an outdoorsman and a dentist? Why can't we acknowledge that the 200 series is overbuilt compared to every other production vehicle on the market, regardless of what the 70 series is (which is really irrelevant considering its unavailability here for its first 25 yrs)? After all, that entire package is really why we are here and passionate about Land Cruisers, isn't it?

I always thought the real magic of the Land Cruiser was that we could have both luxury and off road quality. That we could have something overbuilt but still a daily driver. That we could get groceries AND go camping. I've had a diesel 60, an 80, a 100, three 200's, a GX550, two Tacomas, and two 4Runners. Half I took off-road, and half I babied as if they were museum pieces.

If you prefer the more utilitarian, toughest of the tough Land Cruiser series, have at it. If you want to get groceries, have at it too. Needless to say, go over to the 200 series threads and you'll see they are capable of much more than a 'wagon' and somehow their owners seem to be able to drive themselves off the trails with a smile on their faces.

What value does any of us get from poking bears like that......and on a forum dedicated to bears? Goofiness.

So the 70 series is your preference, and for you Land Cruisers are wholly utilitarian off road toughness. Great. I'm happy for you. Enjoy. Leave those with different and more varied priorities and interests to their different and more varied priorities and interests......or better yet go over to a Bronco/Defender forum and rip their waste of $70-110K there.

Its really all about choosing your bears more wisely.

Man, congrats. I am yet to see a more appropriate response to such a non-sense post in this forum. You practically read my mind.

 

[Blackford Oakes]

It's hysterical to me to read these threads and see 200 series owners who think they have the "real deal" heavy duty Land Cruiser. You don't. You have the "wagon" version, the family hauler. The REAL DEAL land cruiser is the 70 series. This new 250 is more legit to the original philosophy than the bloated and softened 200 series. Are you an outdoorsman? Or a dentist?

USASOC would probably disagree.

 

[Jetboy]

@Jetboy The direct drove fan I’m most familiar with is on some 70 series with B series engines. They had plastic fans. These aren’t just mine trucks. However, they are low revving diesel engines. I’m not suggesting redlining the engine while limping home. Just suggesting that you can get home.

Fan Blade & Clutch Tech for BJ7x with 3B/13BT (A440F & H55F Models)

It might be on a slight angle, I'll try some skinny washers to build it up straight if I have to. Or notch the washer some. Looks like the hub of the water pump will fit inside the tapered clutch hub 👍

forum.ih8mud.com

You can have a separate electric fan for the condenser. Even my 100 series has a separate electric fan for the condenser.



There’s nothing wrong with electric fans, Jeep JK/JL’s use electric fans.

That's interesting. Without knowing the motion ratio between the crank pulley and the fan it's hard to know how fast they spin the fans. The low revving diesel might spin the fan just as fast as the gasoline counterpart. Obviously it works for those vehicles without exploding.

Most of the recent Toyota's I've seen the radiator pulled from end up with a condenser that's the same size as the radiator or close to it and basically sandwiched against it so any fan that moves air for one also would do the other. The LC100 has the AC condenser separated up in front of the radiator rupport brackets and about half the radiator size right? I can't remember the configuration.

Could also have gone to an electric fan because the engine is so far away from the radiator it would have to have a water pump shaft like this: