FJ809496TLC
80 series addict
Charge it slowly, you should start seeing less bubbles till it all disappear. You should be close or right at it.
2/93 A/C Mystery - Need Ideas and Help
- Thread starter Gieser
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- Thread starter
- #102
This may be a crazy question, but what does it look like without bubbles if it is not supposed to look clear?
FJ809496TLC
80 series addict
It should be clear.
- Thread starter
- #105
HERE ARE SOME RESULTS:
I added the R134 slowly until the bubbles went away. The system became a tad cooler by 4 degrees to 57degrees at idle of 850 rpm.
Readings are as follows after freon was added...
Idle RPM of 850
LO = 40
HI = 200
The FSM calls for 2000 RPM for acurate test results...those are as follows...(clutch engaged)
Idle RPM of 2000
LO = Fluctuated slowly from 15 to 25 and back to 15
HI = Fluctuated at same pace as LO from 200-250-200 etc.
After about 1 minute at 2000 I saw bubbles again in the reciever and
the vent temp is now 52 degrees (good improvement) and guages leveled out to read the following (fluctuating a little)
LO - 18-20
HI - 220-250
Mikght need a little more. The bubbles sort of come and go in the site glass.
I added the R134 slowly until the bubbles went away. The system became a tad cooler by 4 degrees to 57degrees at idle of 850 rpm.
Readings are as follows after freon was added...
Idle RPM of 850
LO = 40
HI = 200
The FSM calls for 2000 RPM for acurate test results...those are as follows...(clutch engaged)
Idle RPM of 2000
LO = Fluctuated slowly from 15 to 25 and back to 15
HI = Fluctuated at same pace as LO from 200-250-200 etc.
After about 1 minute at 2000 I saw bubbles again in the reciever and
the vent temp is now 52 degrees (good improvement) and guages leveled out to read the following (fluctuating a little)
LO - 18-20
HI - 220-250
Mikght need a little more. The bubbles sort of come and go in the site glass.
Yep, still looks low to me. Does your FSM say low ~36 and high ~220?
-Spike
-Spike
- Thread starter
- #108
FSM says normal cooling conditions between (LO) 21 and 28, (HI) 206-213
- Thread starter
- #109
The LO 21-28 and HI 206-213 are with the RPM at 2000
Gieser said:
Don't listen to anything I've said then, I'm working with bad information.
-Spike
- Thread starter
- #111
You have helped a lot, did you mean this sarcastically? You have helped me to identify some new avenues. Everyone has for that matter. What information are you working with?
- Thread starter
- #112
My FSM is not specific to type. At least I cannot find it if it is stated. My make originally was R12, but when all was replaced we made it R134. If I am using R134, then I should probably stick to what you say with the 1500 RPM test.
This FSM is Pub. No. RM301U (RM273U, EWD166U, NCF092U are also relevant) and the Application Model is FZJ80 (which I think is 5/93 and later and should be for R134 system) My 80 is 2/93.
Gieser said:
Sorry if I say somthing that has already ben stated, but I'm on a dino slow connection and really not in the mood to read through the other pages.
I was going to ask if your system was a convert from 12 to 134. You need to be using the steps for 134 in the book and not r12, which it seems you are doing. Next since you bought a new compressor you should have bought one for r134. I cannot say first hand for the LC but a rule of tumb is that r134 compressors are BIGGER because the 134 is not as efficient as r12. If you are running a smaller r12 compressor with 134 you should not be expecting low vent temps and you have wasted a ton of money.
OR you really do need to kick your a/c guy right in the nutz. SERIOUSLY, an a/c system is not complicated. You should pull all the freon out, make sure you have the proper amount of oil in the system by the book and put in atleast 30oz of freon! ANYTHING LESS IS NOT ENOUGH! Honestly you need to stop looking at the guages, it seems they are confusing you more than helping. Here is what you need to do.
1. Make sure you have the proper amount of PAG 46 (low viscosity) oil in the system. I cannot say what that is because I don't have the book infront of me and you have changed parts and pulled the system down so many times.
2. Get 3 12oz cans of R134
3. Pull the system down yet again.
4. Charge the system with the 3 cans, run the water hose on the condenser, and place each can of r134 in a cup of HOT water (this will aid in the intake of the freon) and run the engine to the neighborhood of 1500 rpms.
If you do this and still have problems you have a blockeage and need to break the system down again. And probably since you have opened and vaced the system so many times you should change the dryer again.
- Thread starter
- #114
I have seen them side by side and the are exactly the same. I believe the one on my cruiser is for 134, but either way, I need the oil and freon amount for R134 to make sure we did it with the correct ammount on the R134.
This may be a good idea as well and will do it when we evac on monday.
My FSM calls for 31.74 +/- 1.76 oz freon and for the oil it calls for ND-OIL 6 and says, "When replacing receiver 0.7 oz, when replacing condensor 1.4-1.7oz and when replacing evaporator 1.4-1.7oz (which totals out to 4.1oz) Can anyone tell me if these amounts are for R12 or R134.
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Gieser said:
What is ND-OIL 6? My '96 FSM calls for ND-OIL 8, in the US that's called PAG-46 for a R134 truck.
Like some have said, "A/C systems are simple", but the devil is in the details. If ND-OIL 6 is a R12 oil it's not compatible with R134 and may cause contamination? PAG-46 may not be the correct oil for a conversion ether, when converting the oil needs to be compatible with the trace amounts of leftover R12, it's mineral oil, and R134, then protect the older type seals from the new R134. I have never seen a conversion manual from Toyota, there maybe a TSB. A bunch of aftermarket A/C companies have conversion manuals that specify the proper oil and charge amounts to be used when converting.
Gieser said:
Some numbers for the R134 system.
Normal gauge reading (at 1500 RPM):
Low : 0.15 – 0.25 MPa (1.5 – 2.5 kgf/cm2)
High : 1.37 – 1.57 MPa (14 – 15 kgf/cm2)
R134 amount: 850 ± 50 g (29.98 ± 1.76 oz.)
Compressor oil: ND–OIL 8 or equivalent
Evaporator: 40 cc (1.4 fl.oz.)
Receiver: 10 cc (0.35 fl.oz.)
Condenser: 40 cc (1.4 fl.oz.)
I cannot find the amount of oil required for new compressor.
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medtro said:
That's the one,
confirms ND-OIL 8 / PAG-46 as the recommended oil for a retrofit.One point I don't agree with is leaving the old oil in. It may not hurt, but that oil uselessly circulating takes up volume that could be freon and it's not hard to remove most of it.
- Thread starter
- #119
Touche
The compressor had never had R12 in it, so the R134 was the first charge into the entire system...Now the compressor came pre-oiled from Toyota which could have been for R-12, but we have evacuated 3 times since then and the oil replaced I believe was the ND-Oil 8, but I will confirm.
- Thread starter
- #120
Thanks for this Medtro, this is going to be very helpful for me and I really appreciate you posting it.I am going to back everything out of the system includung as much oil as possible. I am then going to suck all the air out (just to make sure), then replace the reciever (just to be safe), then use the oil specified and amount of oil and freon this calls for and see what happens.
Let's keep our fingers crossed. If the new compressor from Toyota came with oil for R-12, then it could be mixed with the R134 or something. We shall see.
