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What's the ambient air temp?
2/93 A/C Mystery - Need Ideas and Help
- Thread starter Gieser
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- Thread starter
- #62
About 80 degrees.
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Gieser said:
The pressures are close then, the book calls for 22-36 low and 200-228 hi depending on temp.
- Thread starter
- #64
That is close. The Hi side is only 185, but the low is 22 which is the lower end. Let me try and run the clutch directly and see what happens. Back in a few.
- Thread starter
- #65
Got the clutch powered from the battery. Set the A/C to max and then connected the clutch to the battery. The vent temp went from 80 to 70 quickly (within a minute or so), but from 70 to 60 in like 10 minutes. When it got down to that 60 degree mark, I still got the "click" (that sounded like it was where the evaporator is) and the idle went down (to 4 or 500 RPM), like I hit the A/C switch. The clutch continued, and after a few seconds "click" the idle would rise again (8 or 900 rpm). Temp would never really go below 60 degrees, but it seemed that if it did, the "click" would happen.
The receiver glass was bubbles when clutch was running and clear (seamingly empty) when clutch was not running.
Durring this process, the Lo was 21, but when the "click" happened, it went to 30. The high side was at about 170, the 200 when the "click happened.
The receiver glass was bubbles when clutch was running and clear (seamingly empty) when clutch was not running.
Durring this process, the Lo was 21, but when the "click" happened, it went to 30. The high side was at about 170, the 200 when the "click happened.
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The click is turning the relay your compressor and idle up on and off. It sounds like it's working properly but I would like to see lower vent temps, try it again, but hold the engine RPM at ~1500 and see what the vent temp is.
- Thread starter
- #67
I did hold down and ran RPM at about 1800, but not for long. How lond do you want me to hold it? When I held it for a short time, no change on temp (but it was less than a minute).
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Gieser said:
That's long enough, the ~60F vent on a 80F ambient is disappointing, it sounds like you still have something wrong on the R134 side.
- Thread starter
- #69
Yes, it is. Quite disappointing. If there is something wrong on the R134 side, what could it be. Do we believe that since the temp will not go below 60 that the sensors and switches are most likely good? If so, what in the world could be causing this? The only thing I can imagine is maybe a slipping clutch plat or something. Ant ideas?
One last idea- take it to an A/C pro. You've gone through the system pretty well, but you've probably spent more than you would had you just dropped it off at the dealer.
-Spike
-Spike
- Thread starter
- #71
Now that is a scary thought. I guess I will just make an appointment with them tomorrow or next week and let them know what has been replaced and what is going on. The guy that has been doing most of the work is the A/C expert at the shop I use when I have to. He is really stumpped on this as well and we spent about an hour re-diagnosing this today and were still stumped.
FJ809496TLC
80 series addict
Properly charged, sightglass suppose to be clear when running for several minutes not bubbly.Gieser said:
I'm not necessarily recommending the dealer route (I hate dealers with a passion) but it sounds like you need at least a second opinion. Unfortunately, no matter what I think of dealers and their shops, they do work on the vehicles all day every day and have (supposedly) gotten Toyota-specific training to go along with their experience.
-Spike
-Spike
- Thread starter
- #74
I hate them too and agree on the second opinion. The guy I use called in 2 other A/C guys and they thought they had it with the fan clutch. If I take it to the dealer they will tell me all about how the "Think" it is this or that and try and make something up because they do not ever say "we can't figure it out". At least the A/C guy I use and the shop I go to know I know my stuff and if they don't know, they will say so.
At this point, my fustration level is
high.If I run the clutch directly from the battery, and the system will not cool below 60 degrees. What in the world could it be in the line if the guages are all fine?
Then, when it gets to 58, the "click" and the drop in idle (normally this is when the clutch would stop, but it continues because of the direct power supply) never getting cooler.
didn't reread all of the above, but did you seriously follow the FSM?
mine has a really through discussion of diagnostics procedures, with checklists etc...
btw, the drop in idle in my case when it's cycling is when the compressor is *not* running AFAICT, it's not due to an extra load, but rather that the idle is not artificially increased to help the A/C I believe.
mine has a really through discussion of diagnostics procedures, with checklists etc...
btw, the drop in idle in my case when it's cycling is when the compressor is *not* running AFAICT, it's not due to an extra load, but rather that the idle is not artificially increased to help the A/C I believe.
Gieser said:
It could be an air vent blockage- if the air isn't moving across the evaporator core, the core itself will get to a low temp and the thermistor will shut off the compressor. If the compressor is hard wired, the evap core will eventually freeze. Have you got lots of air coming from the vents? I seriously doubt this is your problem, but it's one scenario that fits your question.
-Spike
- Thread starter
- #77
We diagnosed from the FSM about 4 times
The evaporator is brand new, not that that would make a diference, but I just wanted to make sure you knew. The air from the vents seems to be blowing quite hard (at least on MAX) and freely. If this whole problem could be from the thermister, it may be worth replacing it just to see. Out of curiosity, if the evaporator froze, wouldn't the casing around it be cold?
- Thread starter
- #78
If this were to happen, would it not show up on the guage readings?
It would show up on the guages eventually, but it would take awhile for enough moisture to condense on the evap core for it to freeze. More importantly, if it were the thermistor, you wouldn't have the problem if you wired your compressor straight to the battery. All the thermistor (system, with associated relays and 'amplifier') does is tell the compressor to shut off when the temp at the evap core gets too low. You essentially bypassed that system, so I would rule it out.
Doesn't sound like you have an air flow (across the evap core) problem either. Back to 'I have no clue what to tell you' mode.
-Spike
Doesn't sound like you have an air flow (across the evap core) problem either. Back to 'I have no clue what to tell you' mode.
-Spike
- Thread starter
- #80
LOL. This seems to be where we have been ending up.
How about process of illimination? Let's see, if we can rule out the thermister, amp, switched, relays, etc... Then it would have to be either in the actual lines, or an actual part.Now, we know there is no blockage because if there were, the high pressure would rise or be higher than 230 or so. So we can rule out a blockage.
The pressure on the Lo side is 21-30 and the pressure on the Hi side is 185-215, so everything looks great, but we are not
(cool). The reciever is showing bubbles while the compressor is enguaged. At least, it looks like bubbles because it looks all foamy. Then Clear when the compressor stops.
Think real hard....If all is well, and we have bypassed the switches, amp and sensors by adding direct power to the compressor clutch, and the pressure is in range, and the system will not cool quickly or really ever get below 50 degres, what could it be?
