1HDFT & 1HDFTE observations-discussion (1 Viewer)

[SNLC]

First up, I by no means am an expert on these engines. They were never offered in the USA, we have really only been seeing them here with any amount in the last few years as they get older.

I would like to hear from some guys overseas who have spent more time with these engines. That is the point of the thread really but anyone who has experience with them, by all means post up.

My background with diesels has always been Japanese diesels. This was Nissan for me in particular Patrols up until about 4-5yrs ago when I started playing and working on Toyota diesels. They are very similar from what I have seen. For Toyota’s I am familiar with 1PZ, 1HZ, 1HDT, 1HDFT & 1HDFTE. Worked on a 2H a bit as well but otherwise I am not familiar yet with the B-series or Prado stuff to much.

Anyways, in the last year we have been getting a lot of FT & FTE’s in the shop. Currently in the shop we have x2 FTE’s and x3 FT’s. Kinda cool for North America, or more to the point the USA. I know you Canadians have had access to these engines for awhile. Just in the last week we have compression tested an FTE and two FT’s. We are using the factory service tool for this and a Mac gauge. In the last few months we have also been assembling a OEM new but NOS FTE long block. We also have another FT in the shop we have swapped into a 67 45-series pickup. So we are getting pretty familiar with these engines, yet still new to them and haven’t been working on them for decades.

We have been learning them hands on, using FSM’s and reading online.

So what I would like to talk about here mostly is what are the issues you can expect to find on these engines that are used and old. Also some confirmation from others with more experience than we have with the FT & FTE platform that our feelings on the engines are correct.

I will post about each engine we have compression tested in the next few posts to give background and info on each. As well as our thoughts in my shop (I say our because we are a team of three currently) on why these engines are how they are.

All three engines are EGR equipped or two are and one it came to us with a recent EGR delete.

If you don’t know, here are factory compression specs;
-498psi standard
-356psi low end
-71psi max spread

Also in case you don’t know, these are zero clearance engines. A piston can kiss a valves on these and very easily. They take a fair amount of time to get into phase if you have to do that. You can only get maybe 5* out of the crank before you have to turn the cam in the process.

We have not done a leak down test yet on any of these three engines. Yes we could, yes we have the equipment to do that. No we probably won’t simply because compression tests have told us enough to know they all need tear down. We will very likely also find the issue on each one when fully torn down, which I will post in the thread at that time.

Cheers

 

[SNLC]

Alright first one is an FT from a 1995 HDJ80. This one hailed from Belgium and has 365,000kms on it. H151 trans and EGR system is on it but appears to not be operational.

The Cruiser it came from is pretty beat down, looks to be used as a work truck the last couple decades. We found this, busted caps on the rockers and janky repairs.

This FT tested low on compression, 355psi was around the highest cylinder with others as low as 300. This being a cold test, all these are cold tests and dry actually.

We did test one cylinder wet and compression only comes up 20psi at best. Obviously somebody has worked on the head. We are feeling like this engine got a cheap quickie deluxe head job. The installer may have busted the caps on install. Being a zero clearance engine it is pretty easy to get a valve kissing a piston. Perhaps a timing belt broke which left it out of phase and the installer didn’t get back into phase enough when torquing down the rocker, result caps busted? We have no idea yet if pistons are damaged but it is getting compression, it’s just low. So tends to make us feel there isn’t a hole in a piston.

The injectors on this one came out fairly easy although the o-rings in them and the cups-seals are old, hard as a rock and damaged.

We feel the low numbers are due to the top end. Like I say a bad head job where the valves didn’t get a good grind on them. Or burned exhaust valves. No way to know until we tear it down which in this one no idea when or if that will happen.

This one did run when it came to us and surprisingly showed no signs of not being a good engine until opening it up.

Cheers

 

[SNLC]

Alright next engine. This one also hails from Belgium, we don’t have much background on it other than it was a fast Cruiser with an upgraded turbo on it originally in Belgium, turbo built by the best over there is what we have heard. I have been told this was an FTE converted to an FT with the mechanical pump. We really have no idea in my shop on that background it is just what we have heard or been told.

This FT came to us not running but installed in the Cruiser. @Onur and myself fired it up before tearing it out of the truck. It ran under 2 minutes at most. It did run well for the short test run. Here is an injector after that amount of time running, supposedly.

A lot of soot on that, which really is not very important here but I wanted to point it out.

Now, from what we know this engine got a full tear down and rebuild here in the states. It was converted to an FT from what we understand at this time. It got at least new piston rings and perhaps new pistons too. So far, it looks like the injectors were not done, that’s a lot of soot above for less than two minutes run time. The head bolted to the block also does not appear rebuilt. Some work we have found in this one is also subpar, silicone where there should be o-rings, silicone where there should be crush washers.

This engine like we say is supposed to be fully rebuilt and ready to go.

It tested low on compression. Best cylinder about 375psi and lowest down to barely over 300psi. Wet test only brought it up 20-30psi at best.

We feel this one may have a good bottom end but the head was not done well and there is leakage past the valves. Crappy valves grind? Cracked head that wasn’t checked before installing?

Cheers

 

[SNLC]

Next one, this is an FTE that hails from Germany and is out of an HDJ100. As far as we know, this sat for a couple of years in a warehouse before being bought by a customer and coming to us. It appears to have over 200,00kms, we are assuming the date and number on the timing belt cover is last timing belt.

It appears to be totally untouched, I am going to say it has never been cracked open. You have to remove this EGR pipe on an FTE to pull the valve cover.

This one has never been off until we pulled it, seized and no tooling marks on the hardware.

I would venture to say manifold has never been cleaned on this one.

Valve covers appear to have never been off, both were just cooked and baked on.

More pics so this one continues in the next post.

Cheers

 

[SNLC]

This one appears by the way to have had a fully functioning EGR system.

Looks really good under the valve cover. Best of the three in our opinion.

We don’t feel this injector has ever been out. It is pretty clean and not covered in soot.

The reason we feel these injectors have never been out is because they were the most seized in the head and took the most effort to get out. The o-rings on them and the cups-seals for injector to injector lines are hard as a rock indicating they are old.

Compression on this engine is low, best cylinder is barley 340psi and lowest is 200psi.

Cheers

 

[chelo]

It's cool to see these engines. What sucks is paying such a high price and getting a crappy engine you have to rebuild.

 

[SNLC]

So let’s get into what we have seen here in these and what we think are the issues. As well as what common things on an FT or FTE are, especially with an EGR system.

#1 FT is clearly beat down with janky repairs. However a wet test didn’t bring compression up much. That leads us to believe it is top end more than rings or pistons. It’s pretty heavily sooted up in the intake and the injectors show a fair amount of soot as well on the nozzle. It did run well, I do have video I will edit in shortly.




#2 the other FT may not be so relevant here since it is supposedly rebuilt and appears to us to have gotten a bad head job. Wet test also doesn’t bring compression up much. I have video of this one running as well I will upload too.





#3 FTE we feel is also valves simply because a wet test also didn’t bring it up much. On this one feeling like it is burned exhaust valves or a stuck valve. Not seen it run and probably won’t until we go through it.

So it seems all of the engines it is top end. From what I have read and learned, the EGR in these really soots them up, in particular on the intake side of things. Feeling like it can also cause exhaust valves to get burned before their time.

We have compression tested a lot of diesels in my shop and myself over the last 15yrs. Many petrol engines as well. You get clues or insight when testing by what the gauge does. Sometimes it is just plain obvious by the gauge. For example, the FTE hit 200psi on #1 first round. To make sure it was right we tested a second and third time, dry then wet. We also double checked our gauge was working correctly with 160psi of compressed air. Only the first test did it come up to 200psi, the other test wet or dry were flat at zero, indicating a stuck valve. On other cylinders the gauge will indicate valve issues as well by how it comes up to pressure.

We have heard the valves on these engines in particular with an EGR system gets sooted up and stick. Is that what you guys who have spent a fair amount of time with these engines are seeing?

It would also seem that the EGR system may be more prone to burning exhaust valves. It is going to cause increased temps in the head is it not? The FTE were factory intercooled at least in the 100’s, the FT’s were never intercooled from the factory and most markets they had an EGR system. Toyota obviously decided a factory intercooler was a good idea on this platform.

It seems to us with these three engines you should plan on a full top end rebuild if buying and FT or FTE used. You should also plan on a major cleaning of intake & exhaust manifolds plus all piping. If your state allows, dump this friggin’ EGR system. We are seeing strong bottom ends over the 1HDT with the BEB not being an issue. However, top end being much more picky as far as setup and keeping it clean. I would say minimum 100,000kms the intake should be pulled and cleaned, if it’s an FT, check timing then too. Could be 200,000kms max and they need head jobs if getting sooted up or exhaust valves taking a beating. I do not think the heads are as prone to cracking as most other Toyota diesels nor head gasket failure. Install a catch can and delete the EGR. While it is obvious on the exhaust side the EGR keeps it clean, exhaust, turbo, ect on FTE above is very clean compared to intake side, it leads to a lot of soot on not just the intake but the valves as well.

We will see I guess as we tear these down more but like I say, if you got experience with these engines please chime in.

Cheers

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

Very interesting, thanks for starting this thread. I do find it odd that each of those motors show such low compression. Hopefully people with overseas experience will chime in with ideas.

I have seen a 1HDT that showed similar compression numbers after having consumed a lot of oil over quite a bit of time from a failing turbo seal. It was really sludged up in the intake. It could be the EGR/PCV sludge mix in these 1HDFT(E) has built up on the valves/seats enough to give poor compression numbers. May not come into play as much when it's actually running though.

Anyhow, looking forward to seeing where this thread goes.

 

[SNLC]

Very interesting, thanks for starting this thread. I do find it odd that each of those motors show such low compression. Hopefully people with overseas experience will chime in with ideas.

I have seen a 1HDT that showed similar compression numbers after having consumed a lot of oil over quite a bit of time from a failing turbo seal. It was really sludged up in the intake. It could be the EGR/PCV sludge mix in these 1HDFT(E) has built up on the valves/seats enough to give poor compression numbers. May not come into play as much when it's actually running though.

Anyhow, looking forward to seeing where this thread goes.

We found it odd too that all three are low including one that got a lot of work. We questioned our equipment multiple times and
tested our equipment multiple times.

The thing is a compression tester either works or it doesn’t.

It is also a very simple process on the diesels, no way to really screw up these tests.

Like I say above, we feel it is all valves or mostly due to the valves.

Cheers

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

The thing is a compression tester either works or it doesn’t.

The only thing I've come across with some diesel comp testers is where the check valve is located. Some are located at the end as close as possible to the glow/injector threaded adapter (which is ideal). And some check valves are located up by the gauge. If they're up by the gauge, then the compression is reduced by the volume of the hose/fitting. On a gas engine it doesn't matter much, but on a diesel, it adds a lot of relative volume, thus reducing compression readings significantly. Not sure what type yours is....

In fact, with the 1HDFT(E), you'd be using an adapter in the injector hole correct (as it has no glow plugs)? Does your adapter have much internal volume to it? If so, even it might be throwing the readings....

 

[SNLC]

The only thing I've come across with some diesel comp testers is where the check valve is located. Some are located at the end as close as possible to the glow/injector threaded adapter (which is ideal). And some check valves are located up by the gauge. If they're up by the gauge, then the compression is reduced by the volume of the hose/fitting. On a gas engine it doesn't matter much, but on a diesel, it adds a lot of relative volume, thus reducing compression readings significantly. Not sure what type yours is....

In fact, with the 1HDFT(E), you'd be using an adapter in the injector hole correct (as it has no glow plugs)? Does your adapter have much internal volume to it? If so, even it might be throwing the readings....

We are using the Toyota SST for down the injector holes. We are also using new a crush washer on each cylinder toqued to the factory 18ftlbs of spec.

We don’t have the factory gauge, it is NLA. We are using a Mac gauge adapted to the SST. Check valve is installed in what we believe is similar to the SST gauge location. Not possible on the FT/FTE adapter for the check valve to be at its tip, at least that is not how Toyota designed it.

Check valve is a 500psi from an air supply shop. Gauge will hold the pressure for 15mins or more, didn’t test beyond that.

You are correct about check valve locations. Our Mac kit they are all found in each individual adapter. We do have a Harbor Freight diesel kit as well, the check valve on that kit is directly above the adapters in the quick connection on the hose. Our petrol test kit the check valve is located right below the gauge.

Cheers

 

[SNLC]

FSM picture above is from a 1PZ/1HZ/1HDT manual.

It is virtually the same on an FT/FTE but here are pics from the FTE FSM.

Cheers

 

[chapel gate]

ok. after nearly 20 years of being around toyota diesels i will share my experiences.

i live in a area that probable has the highest number of 80 series diesels in the uk, and i know, or know of most of these owners. then there is the wider uk scene. which is pretty tight so not much slips under the radar.
the 1HDT/1HDFT/1HDFTE are, without sounding cliche, awesome engines. there reliability and simplicity is pretty much legendary over here.

being critical:

the 1HD T had some reports of piston cracking and ring failure on number 5/6 piston on the early 1990-1992 engines, as we know toyota changed the piston design and injector washer thickness.
then there is the infamous BEB issue, but this has been a known issue for long enough to not be a engine failure. they should be changed. its cheap and easy. these are the only issues ive heard about with this engine. even to this day i come across badly pitted bearings on engines with original bearings. they can have a little hazy smoke on start up until they reach temperature. replacing valve seals/stems can help. can be transformed with up rated turbo and intercooler.

the 1HDFT. no inherent problems. my favourite engine. little bit of blue hazy smoke if left to idle. good tuning power returns.

1HDFTE. no inherent problems. clean burning, can almost breath the exhaust smoke compared to the previous mentioned engines. excellent tuning power returns. small matter of boxes full of green and silver to make the engine run...

there is a difference between a engine being abused and worked. these mid sized diesel engines are designed to be worked. they love it imo. being worked at operating temperature helps keep the bores from glazing and helps burn off soot/carbon deposits. imagine your log burner. smouldering logs or happily burning away at full operating temperature.

a degree of soot on injectors/piston crowns etc is pretty normal.

even on early high mileage engines, the PCV only leaves a very light oil residue on the intake side. probable contributes a little to the blue haze too.. on the other hand the EGR is a s***. although not desirable, it doesnt seem to effect long term longevity. even so, it takes 3 seconds to disable and its worth cleaning out the cross over pipe and intake manifold. there was a case of a new 80 owner firing a load of EGR cleaner through the intake and hydro locking the engine due to the displaced gunk..

i have never heard of head gasket failure on one of these engines nor a cracked head.

200000 miles is considered low over here. i know of plenty on 350000 miles, two on just over 400000 miles and one FTE was in a farmers news paper at just over 500000 miles. all running fine.
the 80 and to a worse extent, the 100 series die of rust. not engine failure.

those compression figures are really low ian. ive never come across figures that low. the highest mileage engine i have tested was a FT at 365000 miles and the figures were comfortable in spec. for my own interest i once tested two engines cold and then at operating temp, the average difference between the two, and all cylinders was about 60 psi.

both FTSs have been messed with, depends whos been doing the messin whether or not its a problem.. the FT with the "repaired" caps was a head scratcher, the only reason they had been in there in the first place i could think of was cam belt failure.
it will be interesting what the FTE shows up.

 

[SNLC]

Thanks for chiming in Mike.

I am not trying to down grade these engines here, I think they are as good as it gets for a Toyota diesel.

We spent hours blaming our equipment and configuring it several different ways. At this point having a hard time blaming the test tools.

I have used the same gauge on a 1HZ and I believe it gave accurate results on that engine and a 1PZ as well. I also tested a 1HDT with it that had blown its turbo, which did show low 400’s.

Cheers

 

[SNLC]

FTE tear down, intake side of the head.

Cheers

 

[Workhorse]

Yikes. Every single EGR equipped FT and FTE I’ve seen is in this condition. Carbon goo coated/clogged and gummed up. Not good and has a choking effect. Too much crud in there, things don’t breathe well enough. I agree with Ian about ditching the EGR systems ASAP if possible. If the intake looks like this, what else can't you see that is going on inside the engine?

 

[FJBen]

Not quite as bad as those VW ALH engines. Those EGR's will 100% clog the intake to where it won't even run.

 

[SNLC]

Yikes. Every single EGR equipped FT and FTE I’ve seen is in this condition. Carbon goo coated/clogged and gummed up. Not good and has a choking effect. Too much crud in there, things don’t breathe well enough. I agree with Ian about ditching the EGR systems ASAP if possible. If the intake looks like this, what else can't you see that is going on inside the engine?

Can’t see it in the pics but we spot valves not seated. Bottom end looks good.

Cheers

 

[Workhorse]

I'd suppose that if you rebuild the head, delete EGR, your compression numbers will come up within spec once the carbon goo is gone and the valves can actually seat properly.

 

[mattimooseprime]

Also in case you don’t know, these are zero clearance engines. A piston can kiss a valves on these and very easily.

Why yes......yes they can. I observed all 6 pistons have a very thorough make-out session with all twelve of my valves on the freeway at 75MPH. Poor 1HDT didn't stand a chance.