1999 versus 2000 Landcruiser (1 Viewer)

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My experience :) I've owned my 4runner for 9 months and I think I once drove off my driveway into the grass, I think?? Never been in the snow yet (real mild winter so far) Just wondering what you knew? Guys on the 4runner site say good things about the off road ability, but who knows???
 
hank14 said:
I was under the impression that VSC and TRAC was turned off with the center diff locked and in low based on this info from another site:

**This is NOT correct. Defeating the TRAC when center locked defeats the purpose of having it. With my center locked the TRAC system works when needed. It's ASC that is disabled when the center is locked.**

"Beginning with the 2000 model year Land Cruiser, Toyota began using a new 4WD system called ActiveTrac. This same system was incorporated into all 2001 4Runners and the new 2001 Sequoias. The same basic system has also been used in the Mercedes M Class as well as post ‘99 Humvees.

**Same system, same name, though programmed specifiaclly for EACH vehicle model. It's the programming that varies the effectiveness and in the case of the 100 it's dialed in amazingly well, better than any other vehicle I have seen.**

These systems operate in essentially the same way with a few exceptions. When engaged, you have three open differentials working for you (front, rear and center). Open differentials are extremely reliable and require very little maintenance. If you have equal traction at all 4 wheels, power is evenly divided between them all. If one wheel begins to slip, the open differentials begin to send all available power to that one wheel. Normally, this would be very bad. This is when a traction control system (TRACS) takes over. TRACS, applies brakes selectively to a slipping wheel. This braking action literally fools the differentials into sending power everywhere except the slipping wheel.

When you are in 2WD (in the Sequoia and Runner), you still have traction control working for you. Obviously, this only will send power left to right but this is better than nothing. There is one thing to be careful of in this condition. When you are in 2-wheel drive, there is a second part of the TRACS that can be hazardous if you are not paying attention. This is the engine speed limiter. This combines the braking action of TRACS with a rev limiter. Your engine speed will be cut back to 1500 to 2400 RPM. This allows for controlled forward movement but it will be slow. The danger with this is if it engages when you are trying to pull into fast moving traffic. This rev limiter only operates in the 2WD mode, so if you know you have any reduced traction, make sure you are in 4WD.

**I have heard about this on the Seq and 4Runner though it's not the case on the 100. I can run idle to redline in 4-Hi or 4-Lo spinning all tires wildly (mud, ice, etc.) without the the throttle being cut back. In the 100 the only time the throttle will cut back is if your VSC activates (sensing a skid). This is not the case with TRAC in the 100.**

On all three vehicles, you have the option of locking the center differential. It is rare that anybody would ever need to do this. On the Land Cruiser and 4Runner, this is accomplished by pushing a button on your dash. On the Sequoia, you shift into 4 wheel low and shift the transmission into “L”. This turns off the TRACS computer and the VSC system. The vehicle is now in a conventional 4WD mode. All 4x4 Toyota trucks have operated in this condition. You should not ever use this mode on dry pavement as you will damage the drive system and tires.

**This is dead wrong. TRAC works in the 100 and the Runner/LX with the center locked. If it didn't it'd be useless.**

The other part of this system is the VSC or vehicle skid control. VSC will selectively apply brakes and throttle to prevent understeer or oversteer. It works in both 2 and 4 wheel drive. This is a rather amazing system and does an incredible job of giving the driver control of the vehicle. Understeer is responsible for a large number of SUV rollovers and oversteer is very common on icy surfaces. The Sequoia will allow you to turn off the VSC but only when you are in 4WD. The only reason to turn this off is if you are off road and want to be able to slide sideways. On the Runner and Land Cruiser, the VSC and TRACS are disabled when you lock the center differential.

**VSC yes, TRAC no. This souorce is wrong.**

The Land Cruiser is always in the 4WD mode. The 4Runner and Sequoia can be used in either 4WD or 2WD. It is safe to leave either in the 4WD mode at all times. You will loose a bit of fuel economy, but will handle better. Unexpected loose gravel and slippery surfaces will not be a problem.

To engage the 4WD system on the Runner and Sequoia, press the button. The green and amber lights will flash on you dash. While it is flashing, the system has not fully engaged and you should avoid sharp corners at this time. If you are accelerating up a hill, these lights will continue to flash. If this happens, take your foot off the gas for a moment and tap the brake. This gives the differential a chance to engage fully into the 4WD mode. The same procedure applies to disengaging the system.

To get into 4WD low, you must first be in 4WD. Stop the truck and place the transmission in neutral. Now, move the floor shifter forward to the low range. This takes a firm hand. This mode is only to be used to remove yourself from a very difficult situation. Once you are unstuck, shift back into the high gear range. "


I realize now that it was only referring to the Sequoia, and that was in 2001, so it has probably changed.

I definitely don't want to get into more discussion as to the differences between runners, sequoias, and LC's.

**You should get into more discussion. If you believe you posted source you're about to be duped into thinking your 2000+ you want to buy will not have TRAC when your 4-wheeling with the center locked.**

It does sound like the 2000+ LC is awesome. Thanks for lowering the resale of mine a couple of g's $$$$

LOCK YOU'RE FRONT AND RAISE THAT VALUE! :)
 
Pitbull said:
My experience :) I've owned my 4runner for 9 months and I think I once drove off my driveway into the grass, I think?? Never been in the snow yet (real mild winter so far) Just wondering what you knew? Guys on the 4runner site say good things about the off road ability, but who knows???

Yes. Good. Das is goot. Needs some lift though due to the lower underside. Wheel in confidence bro!
 
Pitbull said:
My experience :) I've owned my 4runner for 9 months and I think I once drove off my driveway into the grass, I think?? Never been in the snow yet (real mild winter so far) Just wondering what you knew? Guys on the 4runner site say good things about the off road ability, but who knows???

The 4R/GX/120 use an improved version of ATRAC II.

VSC is turned off w/ CDL

Don't read about it, wheel it. :)
 
Well said. Thanks for clarifying. I have abandoned that other site, now that I have found the gold standard for real world LC experience!
 
hank14 said:
Well said. Thanks for clarifying. I have abandoned that other site, now that I have found the gold standard for real world LC experience!

Man, these guys that trash my 100 ( :mad: ) have really come through on service info on my 80 ( :D ). Kind of a :D :mad: relationship. :D
 
ShottsUZJ100 said:
Traction control on the new 4Runner/GX works very well in the rocks (though the 100 is even more tightly controlled allowing for less wheelspin. In the sand and at higher speeds the 4Runner/GX traction control does have some slowing issues (whereas the 100 does not) though not severe.

The local LR dealership in Boulder had to come in one evening and rescue a 4Runner (4th Gen) that tried their little test track. The sales guy I was talking to at the time is both a Toyota truck and Discovery owner - so we're talking complete objective here in the following story. :D

So apparently, the 4Runner got stuck on the track and the TC was unable to get him out. There's not much room for picking a bad line since the track is rather narrow. The sales guy tells me it wasn't even wet out - DI's can make it up with no traction control when it's a little wet, and the DII's with ETC can make it up when it is a little icy out. The DI/DII's have something like 30%-40% more wheel travel than a 4Runner, but I'm guessing he probably got high centered with all that crap that hangs down (poor breakover angle). On the same note, a guy with a 3rd gen tried the track and flipped.

I think the situation with the misbehaving TC on Yotatech went something like a guy was traversing a muddy side hill, and the TC was making him slide precariously close to a cliff-like dropoff.

I like disabling my ETC alot (easy to do) because it's sometimes more fun to drive the old fashioned way as someone mentioned earlier, on really long (1hr-2hr) rocky climbs where the system is kicking in all the time, and because of the wear that the TC puts on the spider gears. Non-military LR diffs are the pinnacle of crap, and the TC can cause them to grenade. I seriously doubt Toyota has this problem...maybe at 300k miles or so - Shotts do you change your own diff oil, ever notice big chunks of differential metal in the fluid? :)
 
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uh huh, yeah... I hope you get a 100 soon, you and Shotts will make this a kick ass forum
 
Good info...many thanks.

Thanks to all for your input regarding pre or post 1999 Cruisers. Speaking of lockers...has anyone tried the LOKKA lockers yet?
 
Bielecki said:
The local LR dealership in Boulder had to come in one evening and rescue a 4Runner (4th Gen) that tried their little test track. The sales guy I was talking to at the time is both a Toyota truck and Discovery owner - so we're talking complete objective here in the following story. :D

So apparently, the 4Runner got stuck on the track and the TC was unable to get him out. There's not much room for picking a bad line since the track is rather narrow. The sales guy tells me it wasn't even wet out - DI's can make it up with no traction control when it's a little wet, and the DII's with ETC can make it up when it is a little icy out. The DI/DII's have something like 30%-40% more wheel travel than a 4Runner, but I'm guessing he probably got high centered with all that crap that hangs down (poor breakover angle). On the same note, a guy with a 3rd gen tried the track and flipped.

I think the situation with the misbehaving TC on Yotatech went something like a guy was traversing a muddy side hill, and the TC was making him slide precariously close to a cliff-like dropoff.

I like disabling my ETC alot (easy to do) because it's sometimes more fun to drive the old fashioned way as someone mentioned earlier, on really long (1hr-2hr) rocky climbs where the system is kicking in all the time, and because of the wear that the TC puts on the spider gears. Non-military LR diffs are the pinnacle of crap, and the TC can cause them to grenade. I seriously doubt Toyota has this problem...maybe at 300k miles or so - Shotts do change your own diff oil, ever notice big chunks of differential metal in the fluid? :)

Bieleck, if I were you I would not even waste my time and money buying a Toyota/Lexus SUV. I would listen to that LR sales guy and buy a new LR. Looks like they are way better off road then the Toyota's plus all of the auto mag's really like that new LR3. After reading your above story I will never take my Toyota off road, I would hate to have it get stuck and with my luck there would be a LR sales guy right there noting my failure. Thanks for the heads up. :)
 
FirstToy said:
uh huh, yeah... I hope you get a 100 soon, you and Shotts will make this a kick ass forum

Now is that a tone of sarcasm, I just can't quite tell? :)

Heh, I think I've found a way to get a rear locker in for $350, need to do some more research. :) I'm a cheap bastard! I've got a bid on 100 right now, but I don't think my low ball offer will get accepted.
 
Pitbull said:
Bieleck, if I were you I would not even waste my time and money buying a Toyota/Lexus SUV. I would listen to that LR sales guy and buy a new LR. Looks like they are way better off road then the Toyota's plus all of the auto mag's really like that new LR3. After reading your above story I will never take my Toyota off road, I would hate to have it get stuck and with my luck there would be a LR sales guy right there noting my failure. Thanks for the heads up. :)

Heh, relax, I'm an equal opportunity ball buster and just relating a story. Does it really mean anything? Maybe, maybe not. What happens when you mod the 4Runner, maybe it could perform on that little track. Is this little track even important? I like 4Runner's and love LC's. I've already made it evident that I'm going with a Toyota as my next rig (if you read my original thread).

And if it makes you feel any better, SAS 4Runner's with coilovers kick LR's asses at rock crawling here in CO.
 
ShottsUZJ100 said:
I don't know what those words mean? :D

It's a conclusion based on all reporting in mags and a couple of videos I've seen on TV.

The consensus on most SUV's incl the Seq/Tundra is that there is far too much spinning before the system kicks in, then sometimes power even kills forward prograss and you're stuck. I've seen the Seq work. It sucks.

The consensus on the 4Runner/GX is that too much wheel spin takes place before the system kicks in though it then IS effective (I only read one report (of many) on the 100 that said this same thing and I'll bet they were probably too hard on the gas?). I read the Runner slowed due to TRAC in deep sand though only once. That's why I've haven't drawn the conclusion that the system in the Runner get's ya stuck. I've read similar results about the H2. Some other Runner owners have confiremed this too. What's your results?

Wheel spin in the 100 is almost always controlled to only a quarter turn of the tire before it shifts to the other wheel and back. It's so tight that the truck crawls just like a locker. Rarely is there any excitement with the 100. Climbing sandy hills I can power up and fling sand from all 4 wheels despite being open diffed. (though I'm not sure others can't do the same?)

Only web wheelers base their opinions on biased magazine articles. Please do your homework and base your opinions on factual (real) data.

Cya on the trails!
 
Bielecki said:
The local LR dealership in Boulder had to come in one evening and rescue a 4Runner (4th Gen) that tried their little test track. The sales guy I was talking to at the time is both a Toyota truck and Discovery owner - so we're talking complete objective here in the following story. :D

So apparently, the 4Runner got stuck on the track and the TC was unable to get him out. There's not much room for picking a bad line since the track is rather narrow. The sales guy tells me it wasn't even wet out - DI's can make it up with no traction control when it's a little wet, and the DII's with ETC can make it up when it is a little icy out. The DI/DII's have something like 30%-40% more wheel travel than a 4Runner, but I'm guessing he probably got high centered with all that crap that hangs down (poor breakover angle). On the same note, a guy with a 3rd gen tried the track and flipped.

I think the situation with the misbehaving TC on Yotatech went something like a guy was traversing a muddy side hill, and the TC was making him slide precariously close to a cliff-like dropoff.

I like disabling my ETC alot (easy to do) because it's sometimes more fun to drive the old fashioned way as someone mentioned earlier, on really long (1hr-2hr) rocky climbs where the system is kicking in all the time, and because of the wear that the TC puts on the spider gears. Non-military LR diffs are the pinnacle of crap, and the TC can cause them to grenade. I seriously doubt Toyota has this problem...maybe at 300k miles or so - Shotts do you change your own diff oil, ever notice big chunks of differential metal in the fluid? :)

Without seeing the part of the track where the Runner got stuck, I'd not be too bothered by this. That track is built (I'm certain) to aid the Disco's 100-inch wheelbase. Take a different WB rig like the Runner and those tires end up in different spots. This could make it more difficult for the Runner ON THAT SPOT. Now a New RRover has a wheelbase more like the Runner though the RR has FAR more wheel travel (10.5" F and 13" R) so it might go through easier. Riding with Rover buddies we usually don't share the same tough spot. Those WBases change things.
 
Over the holidays, I was in Hokkaido riding in my in-law's new Toyota zero crown flagship sedan. It has a switch with "snow mode" and full-time 4wd, 6spd auto tranny. We ran bridgestone blizzak snow tires on all wheels, studless. I've gotta say, it's amazing how fast and hard you can turn, even on icy roads. Only twice did the vehicle skid, and both times were during a turn 15mph onto a side street while on sheet ice. In that case, a buzzer and light in the dash turn on, warning you that's you sliding (as if you don't already know!). Otherwise, we drove on country roads covered with anything from ice from compacted, refrozen snow to 6" of fresh snow with no loss in traction, and you were completely unaware that the electronics were working for you. There was no pulsing of brakes or other stuff you experience with crappy traction control. My guess is this is the same system used on the LC (vehicle costs the same as a the LC100), and suspect that not all traction control is created equal (that for the extra $$$, and we're talking nearly 2x the $$$ you do get a lot more than just a stiffer frame, cushy interior and more sound insulation :) ).
 
Bielecki said:
Shotts do you change your own diff oil, ever notice big chunks of differential metal in the fluid? :)

Nope. I'm a total DINGBAT on this mechanical stuff. While I can understand this stuff after I research it, I'd never put what I learn into place with my hands. :)

I know fluid's easy....but I strip the threads. :D I've never noticed any shavings at all. I run Mobil 1 gear oil in all 3 cases. I've been a bad boy though. With 90K I just changed it for the 3rd time. :mad:
 

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