1999 versus 2000 Landcruiser
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FirstToy said:
Sounds like a good write-up. Swapping the 2 pinion for the 4 pinion
I'd vote for a 2000+ as well. TC + lockers will make a better road + offroad rig. My experience with TC has been on the Rover side, and while I have mixed feelings about it (good in some occasions, blows chunks in others), I think it's definetly worth it.
My TC doesn't perform well in deep snow, high alpine (above treeline) rock fields, and especially cases where you need a momentum since the TC kills it. On the other hand, there's plenty of loose traction and cross axle situations where it works great, and it would be a pain to lock and unlock after every obstacle or turn if I didn't have it.
All traction control systems work by using ABS in reverse, so like John said, sensors and a few more microcontrollers. As a comparison for replacement costs, wheel speed sensors are about $40-$60 for DII's, and it takes about 20 minutes to replace (have to remove the caliper).
I think I've seen this 1999 vs 2000 discussions about a dozen times on this board. I'm already set on a 2000/2001 and will just add lockers later. I just can't decide on a color - River Rock Grey or a utilitarian white! The later will take the scratches and pinstripping alot better.
My TC doesn't perform well in deep snow, high alpine (above treeline) rock fields, and especially cases where you need a momentum since the TC kills it. On the other hand, there's plenty of loose traction and cross axle situations where it works great, and it would be a pain to lock and unlock after every obstacle or turn if I didn't have it.
All traction control systems work by using ABS in reverse, so like John said, sensors and a few more microcontrollers. As a comparison for replacement costs, wheel speed sensors are about $40-$60 for DII's, and it takes about 20 minutes to replace (have to remove the caliper).
I think I've seen this 1999 vs 2000 discussions about a dozen times on this board.
I'm already set on a 2000/2001 and will just add lockers later. I just can't decide on a color - River Rock Grey or a utilitarian white! The later will take the scratches and pinstripping alot better.
Bieleki, that Disco will make a nice trade in.
Anyone know how to hook up some sort of disconnect for the traction control?
Oh sorry, I'll do a search
Anyone know how to hook up some sort of disconnect for the traction control?
Oh sorry, I'll do a search
calamaridog said:Bieleki, that Disco will make a nice trade in.
Anyone know how to hook up some sort of disconnect for the traction control?
Oh sorry, I'll do a search
I've already searched; I didn't see anything of technical merit on this board.
There was a thread going on Yotatech about finding a way to push button disable TC, it seems it's alot more complicated and convoluted than it should be (they were trying to on the 4Runner and Seq). Alas, I'll let you know when I get one, 'cause I'll try to disable it.calamaridog said:Bieleki, that Disco will make a nice trade in.
Anyone know how to hook up some sort of disconnect for the traction control?
Oh sorry, I'll do a search
In what situation would you want to disable it?
Well, I've never driven a vehicle with the traction control so I can't tell you for sure I would want to. Several people have complained about the traction control in their new 4runners, however.
Hey, if it just takes a toggle switch then mod away!
Hey, if it just takes a toggle switch then mod away!
calamaridog said:
Read in Truck Trend where they took a 4th Gen 4runner off road and said it went places they would not believe. They really liked the DAC, scared them going down but it worked. Then turned around and went right back up like a goat. From what I've read most are really impressed with the traction control features of the new rigs. I can see for the seasoned vet, it takes a lot of the skill out of the off road experience, since the traction control does the work not as much the driver.
Pitbull:
"traction control ... for the seasoned vet, ... takes a lot of the skill out of the off road experience"
Thats why the rest of us want it so bad. Sometimes the tuition for that skill is high and paid to the bodyshop.
"traction control ... for the seasoned vet, ... takes a lot of the skill out of the off road experience"
Thats why the rest of us want it so bad. Sometimes the tuition for that skill is high and paid to the bodyshop.
calamaridog said:
Traction control on the new 4Runner/GX works very well in the rocks (though the 100 is even more tightly controlled allowing for less wheelspin. In the sand and at higher speeds the 4Runner/GX traction control does have some slowing issues (whereas the 100 does not) though not severe.
The Sequioa on the other hand is like most other brands. Lot's of wheel spin and in sand/mud it can stop you in your tracks. Won't happen in the 100.
As for skide control? ASC? This is disabled when the center is locked. At HIGH speeds on dirt roads, you can lock the center and you're in control. I drive unlocked and keep the ASC active. It's your choice.
Really you pay three times - once at the bodyshop and then twice at home. 
NMuzj100 said:Really you pay three times - once at the bodyshop and then twice at home.
Shotts, thanks again for your insights! Everyone else too. My wife and I test drove a nice 00-100 at the local dealer. Only has 50,000 miles on it.
So now we are looking for a more affordable one She's sold on this vehicle. I can see why too, it's great.
My wife says to the salesman that she doesn't like the black paint because her husband will scratch the paint so badly when he goes off roading. The sales guy was like "off roading", you mean people actually take these things off road? He's like, hey, I know the LC can do it, I just don't know many who do
As far as the traction control, I remember one complaint from when the 2004 4 Runner was tested and it had to do with the tires getting torn up on the rocky sections due to the TC. I think they needed better tires!
So now we are looking for a more affordable one
She's sold on this vehicle. I can see why too, it's great.My wife says to the salesman that she doesn't like the black paint because her husband will scratch the paint so badly when he goes off roading. The sales guy was like "off roading", you mean people actually take these things off road? He's like, hey, I know the LC can do it, I just don't know many who do
As far as the traction control, I remember one complaint from when the 2004 4 Runner was tested and it had to do with the tires getting torn up on the rocky sections due to the TC. I think they needed better tires!
calamaridog said:Shotts, thanks again for your insights! Everyone else too. My wife and I test drove a nice 00-100 at the local dealer. Only has 50,000 miles on it.
So now we are looking for a more affordable one
My wife says to the salesman that she doesn't like the black paint because her husband will scratch the paint so badly when he goes off roading. The sales guy was like "off roading", you mean people actually take these things off road? He's like, hey, I know the LC can do it, I just don't know many who do
As far as the traction control, I remember one complaint from when the 2004 4 Runner was tested and it had to do with the tires getting torn up on the rocky sections due to the TC. I think they needed better tires!
Oooo, black? Ya, that be baaaaad.
Tires torn up? Yes, slipping on rocks is tough on tires. Keep in mind though the wheel spin is tighter controlled on the 100 over the Runners. Lockers of course will help your tires....until you try harder things.
Pitbull said:
I don't know what those words mean?
It's a conclusion based on all reporting in mags and a couple of videos I've seen on TV.
The consensus on most SUV's incl the Seq/Tundra is that there is far too much spinning before the system kicks in, then sometimes power even kills forward prograss and you're stuck. I've seen the Seq work. It sucks.
The consensus on the 4Runner/GX is that too much wheel spin takes place before the system kicks in though it then IS effective (I only read one report (of many) on the 100 that said this same thing and I'll bet they were probably too hard on the gas?). I read the Runner slowed due to TRAC in deep sand though only once. That's why I've haven't drawn the conclusion that the system in the Runner get's ya stuck. I've read similar results about the H2. Some other Runner owners have confiremed this too. What's your results?
Wheel spin in the 100 is almost always controlled to only a quarter turn of the tire before it shifts to the other wheel and back. It's so tight that the truck crawls just like a locker. Rarely is there any excitement with the 100. Climbing sandy hills I can power up and fling sand from all 4 wheels despite being open diffed. (though I'm not sure others can't do the same?)
I was under the impression that VSC and TRAC was turned off with the center diff locked and in low based on this info from another site:
"Beginning with the 2000 model year Land Cruiser, Toyota began using a new 4WD system called ActiveTrac. This same system was incorporated into all 2001 4Runners and the new 2001 Sequoias. The same basic system has also been used in the Mercedes M Class as well as post ‘99 Humvees.
These systems operate in essentially the same way with a few exceptions. When engaged, you have three open differentials working for you (front, rear and center). Open differentials are extremely reliable and require very little maintenance. If you have equal traction at all 4 wheels, power is evenly divided between them all. If one wheel begins to slip, the open differentials begin to send all available power to that one wheel. Normally, this would be very bad. This is when a traction control system (TRACS) takes over. TRACS, applies brakes selectively to a slipping wheel. This braking action literally fools the differentials into sending power everywhere except the slipping wheel.
When you are in 2WD (in the Sequoia and Runner), you still have traction control working for you. Obviously, this only will send power left to right but this is better than nothing. There is one thing to be careful of in this condition. When you are in 2-wheel drive, there is a second part of the TRACS that can be hazardous if you are not paying attention. This is the engine speed limiter. This combines the braking action of TRACS with a rev limiter. Your engine speed will be cut back to 1500 to 2400 RPM. This allows for controlled forward movement but it will be slow. The danger with this is if it engages when you are trying to pull into fast moving traffic. This rev limiter only operates in the 2WD mode, so if you know you have any reduced traction, make sure you are in 4WD.
On all three vehicles, you have the option of locking the center differential. It is rare that anybody would ever need to do this. On the Land Cruiser and 4Runner, this is accomplished by pushing a button on your dash. On the Sequoia, you shift into 4 wheel low and shift the transmission into “L”. This turns off the TRACS computer and the VSC system. The vehicle is now in a conventional 4WD mode. All 4x4 Toyota trucks have operated in this condition. You should not ever use this mode on dry pavement as you will damage the drive system and tires.
The other part of this system is the VSC or vehicle skid control. VSC will selectively apply brakes and throttle to prevent understeer or oversteer. It works in both 2 and 4 wheel drive. This is a rather amazing system and does an incredible job of giving the driver control of the vehicle. Understeer is responsible for a large number of SUV rollovers and oversteer is very common on icy surfaces. The Sequoia will allow you to turn off the VSC but only when you are in 4WD. The only reason to turn this off is if you are off road and want to be able to slide sideways. On the Runner and Land Cruiser, the VSC and TRACS are disabled when you lock the center differential.
The Land Cruiser is always in the 4WD mode. The 4Runner and Sequoia can be used in either 4WD or 2WD. It is safe to leave either in the 4WD mode at all times. You will loose a bit of fuel economy, but will handle better. Unexpected loose gravel and slippery surfaces will not be a problem.
To engage the 4WD system on the Runner and Sequoia, press the button. The green and amber lights will flash on you dash. While it is flashing, the system has not fully engaged and you should avoid sharp corners at this time. If you are accelerating up a hill, these lights will continue to flash. If this happens, take your foot off the gas for a moment and tap the brake. This gives the differential a chance to engage fully into the 4WD mode. The same procedure applies to disengaging the system.
To get into 4WD low, you must first be in 4WD. Stop the truck and place the transmission in neutral. Now, move the floor shifter forward to the low range. This takes a firm hand. This mode is only to be used to remove yourself from a very difficult situation. Once you are unstuck, shift back into the high gear range. "
I realize now that it was only referring to the Sequoia, and that was in 2001, so it has probably changed.
I definitely don't want to get into more discussion as to the differences between runners, sequoias, and LC's.
It does sound like the 2000+ LC is awesome. Thanks for lowering the resale of mine a couple of g's $$$$
"Beginning with the 2000 model year Land Cruiser, Toyota began using a new 4WD system called ActiveTrac. This same system was incorporated into all 2001 4Runners and the new 2001 Sequoias. The same basic system has also been used in the Mercedes M Class as well as post ‘99 Humvees.
These systems operate in essentially the same way with a few exceptions. When engaged, you have three open differentials working for you (front, rear and center). Open differentials are extremely reliable and require very little maintenance. If you have equal traction at all 4 wheels, power is evenly divided between them all. If one wheel begins to slip, the open differentials begin to send all available power to that one wheel. Normally, this would be very bad. This is when a traction control system (TRACS) takes over. TRACS, applies brakes selectively to a slipping wheel. This braking action literally fools the differentials into sending power everywhere except the slipping wheel.
When you are in 2WD (in the Sequoia and Runner), you still have traction control working for you. Obviously, this only will send power left to right but this is better than nothing. There is one thing to be careful of in this condition. When you are in 2-wheel drive, there is a second part of the TRACS that can be hazardous if you are not paying attention. This is the engine speed limiter. This combines the braking action of TRACS with a rev limiter. Your engine speed will be cut back to 1500 to 2400 RPM. This allows for controlled forward movement but it will be slow. The danger with this is if it engages when you are trying to pull into fast moving traffic. This rev limiter only operates in the 2WD mode, so if you know you have any reduced traction, make sure you are in 4WD.
On all three vehicles, you have the option of locking the center differential. It is rare that anybody would ever need to do this. On the Land Cruiser and 4Runner, this is accomplished by pushing a button on your dash. On the Sequoia, you shift into 4 wheel low and shift the transmission into “L”. This turns off the TRACS computer and the VSC system. The vehicle is now in a conventional 4WD mode. All 4x4 Toyota trucks have operated in this condition. You should not ever use this mode on dry pavement as you will damage the drive system and tires.
The other part of this system is the VSC or vehicle skid control. VSC will selectively apply brakes and throttle to prevent understeer or oversteer. It works in both 2 and 4 wheel drive. This is a rather amazing system and does an incredible job of giving the driver control of the vehicle. Understeer is responsible for a large number of SUV rollovers and oversteer is very common on icy surfaces. The Sequoia will allow you to turn off the VSC but only when you are in 4WD. The only reason to turn this off is if you are off road and want to be able to slide sideways. On the Runner and Land Cruiser, the VSC and TRACS are disabled when you lock the center differential.
The Land Cruiser is always in the 4WD mode. The 4Runner and Sequoia can be used in either 4WD or 2WD. It is safe to leave either in the 4WD mode at all times. You will loose a bit of fuel economy, but will handle better. Unexpected loose gravel and slippery surfaces will not be a problem.
To engage the 4WD system on the Runner and Sequoia, press the button. The green and amber lights will flash on you dash. While it is flashing, the system has not fully engaged and you should avoid sharp corners at this time. If you are accelerating up a hill, these lights will continue to flash. If this happens, take your foot off the gas for a moment and tap the brake. This gives the differential a chance to engage fully into the 4WD mode. The same procedure applies to disengaging the system.
To get into 4WD low, you must first be in 4WD. Stop the truck and place the transmission in neutral. Now, move the floor shifter forward to the low range. This takes a firm hand. This mode is only to be used to remove yourself from a very difficult situation. Once you are unstuck, shift back into the high gear range. "
I realize now that it was only referring to the Sequoia, and that was in 2001, so it has probably changed.
I definitely don't want to get into more discussion as to the differences between runners, sequoias, and LC's.
It does sound like the 2000+ LC is awesome. Thanks for lowering the resale of mine a couple of g's $$$$
