1984 FJ60 Engine Sputtering, Bucking - FIXED!!! (2 Viewers)

[Gretsch]

Hello all. Recently picked up my first LandCruiser FJ60. 1984. Great condition overall. I am about 4 days into this so totally new to these vehicles. PO had the carb rebuilt to chase an engine idle problem. Seemed to fix the issue for awhile but during trip home with it on the highway, the engine started trying to quit. Loss of power and bucking as if to stop and then it came to life again. It did this several times. PO had told me that he had had issues with the fuel gauge reading correctly and suggested that I fill up halfway home to be sure I have enough fuel to get home. I thought maybe I was out of gas so I pulled in to fill up. He had it fixed but had not had time to test it before selling it to me so said to just get gas to be safe. Only took 7 gallons so I think gauge is reading fine.

Tonight at dinner the cruiser just quit. I was able to restart it but would not idle correctly. Kept stalling. I thought again maybe I was out of gas so I limped into a gas station and filled up. Still had trouble starting it and keeping it running. Finally after multiple tries it sprang to life and I was able to get it to stay running.

My first thought is fuel starvation. I have ordered a new OEM fuel filter to see if the old one is getting gummed up and clogged. I do not show any evidence it was replaced with the carb rebuild, but I am not sure. It looks pretty new but I am replacing as its a new truck to me and now I will know its done.

What else should I look at with this problem? The tech that rebuilt the carb says the "Float was not set right and main jet plugged up" in his diag notes. So he rebuilt it. Could this be just from a bad rebuild job? Also if the fuel lines are old, could they collapse under pressure and block fuel flow? I have also read that vacuum leaks can cause this sort of issue. This cruiser also had a new set of plug wires, new cap and rotor and was tuned just before sale. Maybe a problem there. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[SuperDuperCruizer]

Check the ground on the fuel cut-off solenoid 1st. I think your truck has a connector to the carb's fuel cut-off. Clean up the contacts and use some lightbulb grease (dielectric grease), plug it back in and test it out.

If that produces no change, try changing the fuel filter and drive it for a while to see if things improve. The next thing to try is the baby filter in the carb inlet where the fuel line connects. Post up your results and we'll go from there.

 

[Landpimp]

Sounds like 2 things. The idle control selnoid and the egr valve.


You can ground the is to the carb body

And bypass the egr to test.

Fuel filter won't hurt, always a good idea.

As well an okie rebuild wouldnt hurt

Also, if when the guy had the carb off for a rebuild, there is a fairly high chance the vacuum hoses to the carb are not in the correct place, which can cause all kinds of runability issues

 

[Jesper]

Awesome set of videos on how to rebuild the carb, step by step, on Youtube. Can find a rebuild kit through Amazon or Cruiser Outfitters, or like places. Most won't come with the secondary diaphragm so add one of those to the kit. Go slow, pay attention to detail - several threads here on the process if you need (including at least one I started when I didn't pay attention and needed help).

If you don't want to mess with it look up Trollhole or Racer65 for bolt-on replacement carbs.

 

[eagleFJ60]

I had a similar issue which I chased for some time. Did a full tune-up with plugs, wire, filters, timing, etc. Still had the issue. Then one day, went to start and no gas at the carb (despite full tank). Pulled the fuel line from the tank to the filter, no fuel. Quick blast of compressed air and voila. All better. I'm guessing a little debris in the tank gathered around the fuel pickup in the tank.

Other than my present no-start condition, I've had zero problems with bucking since then. Hope this helps!

 

[Gretsch]

Check the ground on the fuel cut-off solenoid 1st. I think your truck has a connector to the carb's fuel cut-off. Clean up the contacts and use some lightbulb grease (dielectric grease), plug it back in and test it out.

If that produces no change, try changing the fuel filter and drive it for a while to see if things improve. The next thing to try is the baby filter in the carb inlet where the fuel line connects. Post up your results and we'll go from there.

OK so I did what you suggested. While in there I noticed what looked to be a ground strap tied to the exhaust manifold (looked like where it was going anyway. Someone had just tied a strip of bare wire to form a bridge to the ground lug:

So I removed that and re-did it with some heat shrink tubing. I don't know this has anything to do with my issue or if this wire is the ground for the fuel cutoff solenoid, but wanted to replace it anyway as it prolly is not working too good. I drove the truck after fixing it but no change in state so it must not be at all related.

So there is a plug with a wire coming off the carb as you said:

Hopefully this is what you were referring to. I opened that up, hit the contacts with an emery board, sprayed some electric contact cleaner in there, shot some dielectric grease in there as well and closed it up.

Started the truck and drove it around for about an hour. Never started to die or bucked on me once. I'll need to drive this around some this week before calling it fixed as this truck ran very well for periods yesterday and also died so its been up and down. But its so far a step in the right direction.

One thing it was doing today was acting like it was going to quit after the AC throttle up thing turned off. With AC on the engine periodically idles up and then back down. After one of these idle up periods, the engine seemed like it wanted to die. I could step on the gas and it would come to life again but then off the gas it was trying to stall. So would being able to give it gas and have it come to life still be something to do with this fuel cutoff solenoid as the issue? Would appreciate it if you could explain to a noob what this solenoid does so I can learn something here. Its much improved though and I will report back during the week. Thanks so much for the help here and again sorry for being such a new kid.

 

[Gretsch]

Not to hijack here, but wonder if someone could help me understand the use of the choke control. When and how to use it specifically. I have started the truck cold with it and without it but am not sure whats actually needed. Also if you do use it, how long to you leave it open or run the truck that way? Thanks again for the help.

 

[SuperDuperCruizer]

Looks like you have some of the vacuum lines missing and as @Landpimp stated will cause problems too.

Okay, if things improved with grounding the idle solenoid this sounds like progress... that's a lot of dielectric grease; use just enough to coat the surfaces.

At this point, there's an idle adjustment that you can make on the carb to deal with the AC kicking on. It's been a while since I've adjusted the idle on a 2F carb. So, search the forums to educate yourself on the procedure or someone will chime in here with the steps.

I've never had a cruiser with air conditioning. So, there may be another area of the Cruiser's fuel system to address. Adjusting the carbs idle fuel mixture may just mask an underlying problem with the ac system.

Also, for the question regarding the choke... I only used the choke when starting up a cold engine. After things warmed up, I'd open the choke up.

 

[Gretsch]

I had a similar issue which I chased for some time. Did a full tune-up with plugs, wire, filters, timing, etc. Still had the issue. Then one day, went to start and no gas at the carb (despite full tank). Pulled the fuel line from the tank to the filter, no fuel. Quick blast of compressed air and voila. All better. I'm guessing a little debris in the tank gathered around the fuel pickup in the tank.

Other than my present no-start condition, I've had zero problems with bucking since then. Hope this helps!

Yes thanks. I thought this was fuel delivery related something like you described but while this was happening I could still see fuel in the filter. But noted and thanks.

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

Looks like you have some of the vacuum lines missing and as @Landpimp stated will cause problems too.

Okay, if things improved with grounding the idle solenoid this sounds like progress... that's a lot of dielectric grease; use just enough to coat the surfaces.

At this point, there's an idle adjustment that you can make on the carb to deal with the AC kicking on. It's been a while since I've adjusted the idle on a 2F carb. So, search the forums to educate yourself on the procedure or someone will chime in here with the steps.

I've never had a cruiser with air conditioning. So, there may be another area of the Cruiser's fuel system to address. Adjusting the carbs idle fuel mixture may just mask an underlying problem with the ac system.

Also, for the question regarding the choke... I only used the choke when starting up a cold engine. After things warmed up, I'd open the choke up.

AC idle screw is the one and only screw on the left side of the carb facing the fan. Sounds like it's acting up. You can test the valve itself too I think w/ a mighty vac but I've never done it.

 

[SuperDuperCruizer]

The site can be deceptive in a fuel starvation problem... for example, when you step on the gas and empty the fuel bowl in the carb; by the time you stop and look at it will be full. Sometimes a clog in the system is enough to restrict the flow but have enough pressure built up to gradually fill the bowl but not keep up with an open throttle. I had a problem similar to @eagleFJ60 with my plastic gas tank on my FJ40.

 

[Gretsch]

Looks like you have some of the vacuum lines missing and as @Landpimp stated will cause problems too.

Okay, if things improved with grounding the idle solenoid this sounds like progress... that's a lot of dielectric grease; use just enough to coat the surfaces.

At this point, there's an idle adjustment that you can make on the carb to deal with the AC kicking on. It's been a while since I've adjusted the idle on a 2F carb. So, search the forums to educate yourself on the procedure or someone will chime in here with the steps.

I've never had a cruiser with air conditioning. So, there may be another area of the Cruiser's fuel system to address. Adjusting the carbs idle fuel mixture may just mask an underlying problem with the ac system.

Also, for the question regarding the choke... I only used the choke when starting up a cold engine. After things warmed up, I'd open the choke up.

The AC was just repaired. All new parts. Works great. Just idles up the engine every so often. It seemed to be what was keeping the engine from dying. When the engine would struggle this AC thing kicked on and saved the engine from dying. Then when it kicked off the idle got so low as to stall the motor. Since the AC system was just set up its possible something is not configured right, but all it seems to do is idle up to right at 1000 rpm. Condenser fan or something might come on as well during this. Engine RPM shows like 500 on the dial during normal idle, and it kicks up to like right at 1000 when the idle up thing happens. When this engine idles properly, its smooth.

I have driven this thing several more times tonight and no stalling. It does act like when it does this that there is just no fuel but during one of these episodes I quickly looked at the filter and could see fuel passing through the top of it so it seemed as though fuel was getting from the tank at least. But it does not seem to be happening anymore....at least for now. It worked fine when I bought it so this could be fake news. But it is interesting how consistent it was, and now I cannot get it to do it at all. I'll keep you posted this week.

So what does the solenoid do exactly? Shuts off fuel flow after engine shutoff? Maybe when the key is on the solenoid opens fuel flow to the carb, and with an intermittent ground, it was closing, opening, closing, opening causing fuel starvation. Sound right? Thanks again for the help.

 

[ibinazbass]

500 is pretty darn low for a normal idle. I'd set it to at least 700 if not 800. That could be causing it to try to stall out when the high idle kicks down.

 

[Gretsch]

500 is pretty darn low for a normal idle. I'd set it to at least 700 if not 800. That could be causing it to try to stall out when the high idle kicks down.

Right now its just above the line split between 0 and 1000. So I said 500 but it might be more like 700. Hard to tell. I may try and adjust it. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[SuperDuperCruizer]

Are you referring to the AC Amplifier? What, "adjust it" are you referring to?

Also, to answer your question about the idle/fuel solenoid; it will cut of the fuel if not grounded properly and can misbehave intermittently with a faulty ground.

I have the Factory Service Manual for the 2F emissions; however, I've misplaced somewhere. I'll see if I can find it and post a diagram of the lines. The FSM diagrams of the emission lines are pretty lousy, but you should be able to figure out what lines are missing or in the wrong ports. In the meantime, I'm sure someone has posted pictures here on mud someplace. Look for pictures of engine compartments with the same location of emissions/vacuum ports.

 

[Gretsch]

Are you referring to the AC Amplifier? What, "adjust it" are you referring to?

Also, to answer your question about the idle/fuel solenoid; it will cut of the fuel if not grounded properly and can misbehave intermittently with a faulty ground.

I have the Factory Service Manual for the 2F emissions; however, I've misplaced somewhere. I'll see if I can find it and post a diagram of the lines. The FSM diagrams of the emission lines are pretty lousy, but you should be able to figure out what lines are missing or in the wrong ports. In the meantime, I'm sure someone has posted pictures here on mud someplace. Look for pictures of engine compartments with the same location of emissions/vacuum ports.

On the emissions lines....this truck has been desmogged and looks as though a lot of whats missing may be due to that. The PO had his cruiser specialist 'fix' what he termed a 'bad desmog job'. Multiple people though have mentioned that I have missing lines so seems he did not fix a lot of it. Enough people have mentioned it that it seems its still not correct. I read up more on what this solenoid does since my last post and now have a better understanding of it. Learned that these trucks despite being carb'ed have engine 'computers' which I found interesting. Ignition control box or somesuch. PCB board basically. Interesting to think they were moving to computer controlled engines way back then. Anyway thanks for the help.

 

[wngrog]

As for vacuum. You for sure need to plug these. I have 2 looked and one is being used for vacuum on my charcoal canister system.

Yours ^^^^

Mine

As for the sputting. It's funny you posted this. I just got back from a 800 mile trip in my 60. It did this 3 times. Filter is clean.

I'll keep watching. I didnt think of the idle control wire. I'll clean mine up.

As for the AC. There is a valve that is no longer available for
Idle up. It's a vacuum operated switch. People are using ones off camaries or something. Search AC idle up.

I need to do it too. Mine idles at 800 then drops to 5-600 when the AC clicks on.

 

[Gretsch]

So thinking about this again here with regards to the solenoid being the culprit. I just want to make sure I am clear about what the engine has done since picking this truck up last week.

1. On the drive back from picking it up, rolling along at around 65/70, the engine suddenly felt as though it was losing power, and bucked a couple of times, but came back to life. I mentioned the fuel gauge issue so got gas and did not have issues after that. Thought at the time I was out of gas and the gauge was wrong.

2. Over the weekend the engine had rough idle and died several times. When it would die the AC idle up happened to cut off and then the engine started to die. The AC engine idle up is not causing the engine rough idle, its just happens to be saving the engine from dying by idling up. When it cuts off the engine starts to die as there is no longer more fuel going into it. I was able to save it by giving it gas, but when letting off the pedal it went back to rough idle. A couple of times while driving it around, it started feeling like it was losing power and then came back.

3. One trip out with my son, picking up pizza. I stopped the truck, got the pizza, and then came back out and started the truck all in the space of like 8 minutes. Truck started and idled fine. I drove it to a stop sign, stopped, and it died. Started it, drove a little more in parking lot, and it dies between shifting from 1st to second. Thought I was out of gas so got fuel and engine ran again. So again thought it was fuel gauge issue. All of these situations were with the AC on. Also using the choke control would keep it from dying.

Now that that's out of the way, trying to understand how if the solenoid has a bad ground and is intermittently cutting off fuel flow by opening and closing, how would it allow me to rev the engine, preventing it from dying. Seems like if the solenoid is opening and closing, it would not idle or rev. Sorry for all the questions here. Just trying to understand how this is fixing my issue and if this is actually not fixed and will return. Hopefully I am making myself clear. Thanks for all the help. You guys rock.

 

[wngrog]

Mine did the same. I could redline it with the clutch in but as soon as I let out the clutch to move it would die.

It cleared itself all 2 times.

 

[mattressking]

What is your vacuum at idle? Intermittent dying definitely sounds like Fuel Cut/EGR/Computer issues, I myself have had two hiccups but they seem to disappear before I can actually diagnose.

1. Check the Fuel Cut Solenoid by turning ignition on, but truck not running and unplug the solenoid. Touch the connectors together for connectivity and listen for the solenoid click. If no noise, that is your idle issue. This is ideally done when the issue is present. If it fails, the FCS bypass needs to be done by grounding the white wire that comes off the solenoid, as seen below.

2. Next would be verifying the fuel cut solenoid vacuum lines. Check the vacuum diagram and make sure its routed correctly to the vacuum switch. I'd post the diagram, but my work comp is blocking all the good diagrams.

3. Remove the emissions computer, this is a tricky one. It's under the driver kick panel and the only way to really inspect is check for broken solder joints on the board. Normally there are some broken ones on the points for the connector on the board, so a quick reflow and/or additional dab of solder does the trick. If you can get your hands on a known good unit, that helps for testing as well.

4. EGR. With truck running, unhook vacuum feed (top vacuum line on valve) apply vacuum to the valve manually with a piece of hose and suck lightly (only time I'll tell someone to do that). If the engine starts to stumble, the valve is functional. It would also help to clean the valve out, so hit it with some pb blaster at all the connections and hope it comes off easy. You can also cap the vacuum line off the modulator to egr valve and see how the truck runs with it disconnected.

5. Is fuel level center in the site glass on carb? Try and verify when the truck is fine and running and also when it won't idle.