Would just a chain and sprockets work?
1953 Dodge M37 wheeler conversion
- Thread starter workingdog
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#35 motorcycle chain or a cog belt about 1" wide would probably work well enough without being too tricky to make a housing for. The chain might like a sealed housing and some oil to keep it in decent shape. A belt and cog pulleys would just need a cover to keep fingers and sticks out.
Check the ratio of the winch you have. Count turns or whatever it takes to verify. The internet said 30:1 for one like that winch so that's what I was going off previously, but it could be something else. I think you want about 200:1 to 250:1 total reduction. So if it was 30:1 and you added a 7:1 or 8:1 ratio with chain and sprockets or a cog belt you'd be good.
workingdog
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- #203
Okay, after a couple of months away from the rig, I was finally able to get back to it. I wanted to start driving it, but there was a veritable laundry list of little things to do. Finally got enough cleaned up to take it out. Made a loop around the neighborhood (about 2 miles), no problem. Did another run an hour later to get a log off the Holley and ... it's running like crap. I turn around after 1/2 a mile and it dies on me before I can get home (on a hill where I find out the very nice e-brake I have installed isn't adjusted enough to hold on a hill - at least the line lock works). No indication of what the problem is. Fuel pressure is 45 - low but stable and enough. I can't see what's wrong. After 2 more attempts to get it home, finally had my son come down in the GMC 2500 and drug it home.
I attempted a few starts and sent logs to the tuner, no idea what I was chasing. He sends me a few new tunes to try. No joy. Suspecting some problem with the coil pack harness. I make sure all the grounds and connectors are good, tearing into the harness I had just put away to get at everything.
After 4 days of no idea, I'm finally out there in desperation and I realize that the fuel pressure sensor - electronic feeding the Holley display - is reading 45 all the time - like a rock. So I climb under the rig and check the mechanical gauge next to the fuel pump - nada, zero, zilch.
I was OUT OF GAS. Could have solved the problem with a few gallons of has when it died. If only I'd thought to give that a try. But ... I'd put 5 gallons in and it never goes anywhere so I assumed it was still there - but that 5 gallons was gone.
So, I try to put gas in, only to find out the fill neck isn't right and it's running out on the ground. F***. So I undo all the stuff I have to undo to lift the bed up, and manage to get fuel directly into the tank, and it fires right up (after backfiring and blowing the 1/2" cap off the vacuum port). So, that problem is solved. But ... there is gasoline all over the top of the tank. All the fittings were really lose ... Hmm. That's where the 5 gallons went. Not enough to end up on the floor, but enough I lost some every time I turned the key on.
And, now that I've got the bed up, the other reason I'm out of gas is because I could not get the sending unit to work initially and I had no working fuel gauge. So I pulled the sending unit out and got out the ohm meter. Nothing. I looked more closely - the arm had never been snapped onto the part that actually measures, the arm was going up and down and doing nothing. So, I snapped it in, extended the pick up a little so it sat lower, and wired the fuel sending unit up to the cab (where it's going to display on the Holley digital gauge - nice feature, you buy a little doo-dad that takes inputs, and one of them is configured for OHMS. then you can add a gauge that scales from any ohms to any oms - Nice).
Okay, threw away the old fill neck, I'm going to go with a direct to tank style in the bed, and put the bed back down and everything back together, and it made a lovely loop around the block.
The new fuel pressure sensor arrived, So I put that in and it reads 60 when it shoulds and it also goes down to 0 which it should. Pull out to do another loop, and it dies in the driveway. What now? I can hear the fuel pressure regulator clicking, but the pump is not running. Slide under the rig, and the wires going to the fuel pump are barely finger tight. Tighten them up, fix the leak I created when I put the new fuel pressure sender (bend the dust shield back off the front right rotor) and off I go - wallah. All good. Runs Great.
It's just amazing how many little things will fight you, all because I'm always trying to get A done and B gets left undone until later - and now it's later. I can already hear the fuel pump struggling, I don't think 5 gallons is enough for this to run reliably, the pick up wants to be 1/2" lower. Anyway, I'll get the gas gauge working next week and install the in bed fill when those parts arrive and figure out something to store in the massive fill neck on the bed.
I attempted a few starts and sent logs to the tuner, no idea what I was chasing. He sends me a few new tunes to try. No joy. Suspecting some problem with the coil pack harness. I make sure all the grounds and connectors are good, tearing into the harness I had just put away to get at everything.
After 4 days of no idea, I'm finally out there in desperation and I realize that the fuel pressure sensor - electronic feeding the Holley display - is reading 45 all the time - like a rock. So I climb under the rig and check the mechanical gauge next to the fuel pump - nada, zero, zilch.
I was OUT OF GAS. Could have solved the problem with a few gallons of has when it died. If only I'd thought to give that a try. But ... I'd put 5 gallons in and it never goes anywhere so I assumed it was still there - but that 5 gallons was gone.
So, I try to put gas in, only to find out the fill neck isn't right and it's running out on the ground. F***. So I undo all the stuff I have to undo to lift the bed up, and manage to get fuel directly into the tank, and it fires right up (after backfiring and blowing the 1/2" cap off the vacuum port). So, that problem is solved. But ... there is gasoline all over the top of the tank. All the fittings were really lose ... Hmm. That's where the 5 gallons went. Not enough to end up on the floor, but enough I lost some every time I turned the key on.
And, now that I've got the bed up, the other reason I'm out of gas is because I could not get the sending unit to work initially and I had no working fuel gauge. So I pulled the sending unit out and got out the ohm meter. Nothing. I looked more closely - the arm had never been snapped onto the part that actually measures, the arm was going up and down and doing nothing. So, I snapped it in, extended the pick up a little so it sat lower, and wired the fuel sending unit up to the cab (where it's going to display on the Holley digital gauge - nice feature, you buy a little doo-dad that takes inputs, and one of them is configured for OHMS. then you can add a gauge that scales from any ohms to any oms - Nice).
Okay, threw away the old fill neck, I'm going to go with a direct to tank style in the bed, and put the bed back down and everything back together, and it made a lovely loop around the block.
The new fuel pressure sensor arrived, So I put that in and it reads 60 when it shoulds and it also goes down to 0 which it should. Pull out to do another loop, and it dies in the driveway. What now? I can hear the fuel pressure regulator clicking, but the pump is not running. Slide under the rig, and the wires going to the fuel pump are barely finger tight. Tighten them up, fix the leak I created when I put the new fuel pressure sender (bend the dust shield back off the front right rotor) and off I go - wallah. All good. Runs Great.
It's just amazing how many little things will fight you, all because I'm always trying to get A done and B gets left undone until later - and now it's later. I can already hear the fuel pump struggling, I don't think 5 gallons is enough for this to run reliably, the pick up wants to be 1/2" lower. Anyway, I'll get the gas gauge working next week and install the in bed fill when those parts arrive and figure out something to store in the massive fill neck on the bed.
workingdog
GOLD Star
- Thread starter
- #204
Okay, I was able to drive the M37 the several miles to my local hardware store and back. So, that was a success. It runs much better with gas. The LS3 is a beast, but the full hydro has me timid to test it out.
So, some feedback about driving with Full Hydro -
First, if the engine dies it steers the same as any power steering car with dead engine. It's not easy, but it steers.
Second, it's a little twitchy, still getting used to that. There is no 'dead' spot in the 'middle' like all steering boxes I've driven. the transition from one direction to the other feels abrupt and it's just not as smooth/predictable as I'd like throughout the steering range.
third - the steering wheel slowly rotates one direction or the other as you drive. Freaked me out at first. I had no idea. thought I had a problem with the column. But I called PSC and confirmed - it's a thing with full hydro. So ... I just take the wheel off the disconnect and put it back on.
Also, the Telsa Ibooster electric master cylinder that wasn't working great, is now working better. I made no changes. I have no idea what's going on. but it's working acceptably now (no longer going to the floor). It's very touchy, you have to your heel on the floor board to keep from applying too much brake. There's very little 'feel'.
I have a Gen 2 ibooster here, if I get inspired I'll swap it out and see if it improves the feel.
So, some feedback about driving with Full Hydro -
First, if the engine dies it steers the same as any power steering car with dead engine. It's not easy, but it steers.
Second, it's a little twitchy, still getting used to that. There is no 'dead' spot in the 'middle' like all steering boxes I've driven. the transition from one direction to the other feels abrupt and it's just not as smooth/predictable as I'd like throughout the steering range.
third - the steering wheel slowly rotates one direction or the other as you drive. Freaked me out at first. I had no idea. thought I had a problem with the column. But I called PSC and confirmed - it's a thing with full hydro. So ... I just take the wheel off the disconnect and put it back on.
Also, the Telsa Ibooster electric master cylinder that wasn't working great, is now working better. I made no changes. I have no idea what's going on. but it's working acceptably now (no longer going to the floor). It's very touchy, you have to your heel on the floor board to keep from applying too much brake. There's very little 'feel'.
I have a Gen 2 ibooster here, if I get inspired I'll swap it out and see if it improves the feel.
workingdog
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- Thread starter
- #205
Okay, home from the M37's first run on the Rubicon.
First, it made it all the way through- so, yea! Second, the shakedown trip to Hollister Hills was not adequate. Not enough locker use, did not stress the suspension enough.
However, the design and basic function all did great. Except for the overhang/bad departure angle, the rig chewed up the trail. I didn't take the hardest lines, but I took the middle hard lines and it did great. So, all and all, it was a huge success. the problems were the kind you'd expect and we were able to deal with them.
Now the problems.
First and biggest problem - the main crossmember that supports the transmission and holds the lower front links (which carry a huge amount of load), started to rotate in the granite bowl (I now know it had been rotating at Hollister Hills, just not enough to be obvious). The oil pan skid plate that was attached to it started to wave around and bang into some supports. Just past whales back I asked a couple of guys if they could see it, and they saw that. I got under and looked and you could see the cross member rotating enough to cause real problems. So we broke out the brand new Karnage welder and welded the crossmember to the frame. It wasn't perfect because the crossmember was still slightly rotated, but at least it would get us through the trail - and it did.
I don't have a picture of the completed cross member.
But those two sleeved bolts were not enough to hold it. Now that I look at it, that's obvious. I copied this from something else that clearly didn't wheel a lot. So, a new plate along the bottom will need to be added - once I cut it out of the frame.
In addition to making the front crossmember move and allowing the lower links to move (changing the caster), the transmission tail housing is bolted on top of this, and the rotation was imparting a great deal of stress on the back of the transmission. Literally, the tail housing was keeping the crossmember from rotating more. That caused the seam between the tail housing and the transmission body to open up little and leak. We had seen the leak and been really confused by it. Now we know. So, that's going to be a lot of work to fix.
Second, steering wheel started the spin past Walker Hill. The set screws where the steering shaft goes in the universal joint at the orbital had failed. So once again, the carnage came out and we welded the steering shaft to the joint, and I had steering again. But, I'm going to have to put a slip joint on the steering shaft because after it was welded the column was popping
The inverter keeping the ARB fridge cold was screaming at me. And the ARB compressor was freaking out making this horrible sound. And the busman breaker that was supplying power to those things was blowing. So I ended up with no lockers from past Buck all the way into Rubicon Springs. When we got to the Springs, we found a couple of things. One, the second battery was only 10.7 bolts, the Red Arc battery isolator wasn't working and the rear battery wasn't charging. That explained why the inverter was very unhappy. In addition, we found a wire running up the roll cage to the switches and lights on top had somehow gotten pinched and shorted to the cage, and that explained why the breaker was blowing and the compressor was freaking out. I'm going to have to run the compressor straight to the battery using the Maxi fuses that come with it. The double ARB compressor is too much juice for even a large bussman breaker.
Fourth, the quarter inch pipe used to make protection for the tail lights protected the tail lights, but they were 45° off angle by the time we got the Springs because I was landing really, really hard on them. The skid plate for the gas tank survived, but it was slightly bent. It was under built as well. The tail lights are gonna have to be surface mounted to the tail gate.
Additionally, as soon as we got to camp, Porter said. "Dad, you have to bob the bed". And he's right. The lousy departure angle is the only thing really limiting what the rig can do, and makes it loud and uncomfortable to go down almost anything. That also means the 20 gallon gas tank has to go. So, I'm hoping to fit a10 gallon tank or fuel cell in the remaining space and add a shallow fuel tank/tool box to the bad as an auxiliary for the primary tank. I'll lose 2' of bed in total, but I'll still be able to sleep in the back with the tailgate down. but won't be able to carry quite as much. Moght need a rack over the bed.
Also, I'm going to ditch the Frame mounted fuel pump which made a hideous noise the entire trip and convert to Holley in tank pump and Holly lidar fuel level sending unit.
First, it made it all the way through- so, yea! Second, the shakedown trip to Hollister Hills was not adequate. Not enough locker use, did not stress the suspension enough.
However, the design and basic function all did great. Except for the overhang/bad departure angle, the rig chewed up the trail. I didn't take the hardest lines, but I took the middle hard lines and it did great. So, all and all, it was a huge success. the problems were the kind you'd expect and we were able to deal with them.
Now the problems.
First and biggest problem - the main crossmember that supports the transmission and holds the lower front links (which carry a huge amount of load), started to rotate in the granite bowl (I now know it had been rotating at Hollister Hills, just not enough to be obvious). The oil pan skid plate that was attached to it started to wave around and bang into some supports. Just past whales back I asked a couple of guys if they could see it, and they saw that. I got under and looked and you could see the cross member rotating enough to cause real problems. So we broke out the brand new Karnage welder and welded the crossmember to the frame. It wasn't perfect because the crossmember was still slightly rotated, but at least it would get us through the trail - and it did.
I don't have a picture of the completed cross member.
But those two sleeved bolts were not enough to hold it. Now that I look at it, that's obvious. I copied this from something else that clearly didn't wheel a lot. So, a new plate along the bottom will need to be added - once I cut it out of the frame.
In addition to making the front crossmember move and allowing the lower links to move (changing the caster), the transmission tail housing is bolted on top of this, and the rotation was imparting a great deal of stress on the back of the transmission. Literally, the tail housing was keeping the crossmember from rotating more. That caused the seam between the tail housing and the transmission body to open up little and leak. We had seen the leak and been really confused by it. Now we know. So, that's going to be a lot of work to fix.
Second, steering wheel started the spin past Walker Hill. The set screws where the steering shaft goes in the universal joint at the orbital had failed. So once again, the carnage came out and we welded the steering shaft to the joint, and I had steering again. But, I'm going to have to put a slip joint on the steering shaft because after it was welded the column was popping
The inverter keeping the ARB fridge cold was screaming at me. And the ARB compressor was freaking out making this horrible sound. And the busman breaker that was supplying power to those things was blowing. So I ended up with no lockers from past Buck all the way into Rubicon Springs. When we got to the Springs, we found a couple of things. One, the second battery was only 10.7 bolts, the Red Arc battery isolator wasn't working and the rear battery wasn't charging. That explained why the inverter was very unhappy. In addition, we found a wire running up the roll cage to the switches and lights on top had somehow gotten pinched and shorted to the cage, and that explained why the breaker was blowing and the compressor was freaking out. I'm going to have to run the compressor straight to the battery using the Maxi fuses that come with it. The double ARB compressor is too much juice for even a large bussman breaker.
Fourth, the quarter inch pipe used to make protection for the tail lights protected the tail lights, but they were 45° off angle by the time we got the Springs because I was landing really, really hard on them. The skid plate for the gas tank survived, but it was slightly bent. It was under built as well. The tail lights are gonna have to be surface mounted to the tail gate.
Additionally, as soon as we got to camp, Porter said. "Dad, you have to bob the bed". And he's right. The lousy departure angle is the only thing really limiting what the rig can do, and makes it loud and uncomfortable to go down almost anything. That also means the 20 gallon gas tank has to go. So, I'm hoping to fit a10 gallon tank or fuel cell in the remaining space and add a shallow fuel tank/tool box to the bad as an auxiliary for the primary tank. I'll lose 2' of bed in total, but I'll still be able to sleep in the back with the tailgate down. but won't be able to carry quite as much. Moght need a rack over the bed.
Also, I'm going to ditch the Frame mounted fuel pump which made a hideous noise the entire trip and convert to Holley in tank pump and Holly lidar fuel level sending unit.
Peter drove that thing like a boss. I said follow me and he did except when he wanted a smoother line or make use of his extra WB. Porter drove the WFO rig like it should be driven. The bed of Peter's M37 was more or less full and he did bang it around to see what breaks.
workingdog
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- #207
I felt bad for following too close. 1st gear was too slow, and 2nd gear was too fast.
Thanks for leading the run. It was a great time. Glad we could even go out together.
Thanks for leading the run. It was a great time. Glad we could even go out together.
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All that at no pics at all?? 
workingdog
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- #209
Here ya go. We didn't take enough pictures, we had no extra person.
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Is that the WFO Shop buggy?
workingdog
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- #211
Yes it is.
AgentOrange
TLCA #28372
It was nice meeting the both of you this weekend. That rig looked like it performed nicely
workingdog
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- #214
Okay, deep into repairing the rotating crossmember. Here with the trail weld holding it in place.
After cutting that out, here's what I've found. The cross member itself was fine. Built solid enough. But ... all 4 sleeves in the frame were broken free. So, I'm going to have to create more bevel and I'd only welded the inside, I'm going to have to figure out how to get to the other side, inside the frame, and get soem weld on that.
But, the worst is ... the 2 bolts that go thread into the underside of the transmission tail house were destroyed. The underside of the tail housing is all wallowed out. So, there was nothing holding the transmission to the cross member. It was pretty free to move. The rotating had put HUGE stresses on those bolts. So, that's going to be more of a challenge to fix. I think drill out and thread to next size up.
The main part of the repair is going to be adding a large piece that goes on the bottom of the frame and attaches to the crossmember to prevent any rotating, but first ... I have to do some drilling and tapping in a very, very awkward place.
After cutting that out, here's what I've found. The cross member itself was fine. Built solid enough. But ... all 4 sleeves in the frame were broken free. So, I'm going to have to create more bevel and I'd only welded the inside, I'm going to have to figure out how to get to the other side, inside the frame, and get soem weld on that.
But, the worst is ... the 2 bolts that go thread into the underside of the transmission tail house were destroyed. The underside of the tail housing is all wallowed out. So, there was nothing holding the transmission to the cross member. It was pretty free to move. The rotating had put HUGE stresses on those bolts. So, that's going to be more of a challenge to fix. I think drill out and thread to next size up.
The main part of the repair is going to be adding a large piece that goes on the bottom of the frame and attaches to the crossmember to prevent any rotating, but first ... I have to do some drilling and tapping in a very, very awkward place.
workingdog
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- #215
Okay, here's the bolt that yanked out of the tail housing and then wallowed around for a while. this was the bolt supplied with the transmission.
You can see all the aluminum dust all over the cross member.
Here's the tail housing drilled and tapped to 1/2x13. I used a longer bolt so I could put a nut land lock washer on top so that the aluminum threads aren't carrying all the load - even though there shouldn't be any load.
You can see all the aluminum dust all over the cross member.
Here's the tail housing drilled and tapped to 1/2x13. I used a longer bolt so I could put a nut land lock washer on top so that the aluminum threads aren't carrying all the load - even though there shouldn't be any load.
Do you have a rubber isolator for where you mounted the transmission to the crossmember?
Helicoils are better than straight aluminum threads, and time-serts are better than that.