13bt, 14bt, or 15bt into a LJ78??

[Mwanza Mud]

All right, I obviously have an LJ78 that has actually had none of the head problems that are normally associated with it. However, my opinion after a year of driving tends to be this: this engine just sucks. I thought at the beginning that the highway speeds were not that big a deal, but even on the moderately paved two-lane East African roads I travel on I think it's underpowered. Then when you take off pavement, even in first gear the moment you venture into sand or mud of any kind, not even a first class obstacle, the engine gets bogged down.

Anyway, time for a change. Being a Tanzanian resident, there are more 13, 14, or 15bt's floating around than I can shake a stick at. Since the nose is not long enough for a 6cyl change, which of these 4bangers would you all choose? Beyond that, I'm told (I haven't checked it myself yet) that the 13bt will mate with my stock bellhousing, but don't know about the other two.

Also, what about the general strength of the stock drive train? Opinions about whether or not any or all of these engines will snap or twist some component that is particularly "light duty"?

Last, what about weight? I'm already planning a suspension change, but are these engines just gonna be too much for the frame? I of the opinion no, but please beg to differ with me and tell me why.

Cheers

 

[denis]

any of those will be fine, as you get more power you also get heavier but I wouldn't mind the biggest one personally.
None of them will fit your stock bellhousing, and the original tranny might find its limits with such torque monsters.
The rear diff might be the next weak link, depending on what's your driving style you may want to upgrade/ regear using 4.11 or 3.7s 9" diffs from the earlier/bigger cruisers.
A 6 can very well fit with some work, but the 4s your are contemplating are plenty enough
If the engine gets bogged down even in 1st gear there is a problem somewhere IMO.

 

[Mwanza Mud]

Calling my bluff

Denis,
May be overstating a bit for emphasis...as far as first gear issues go...but also running goodyear 265/75 MT/R's which I'm sure doesn't help when trying to get the rubber moving with this engine.

Yeah, I know the 6 will fit, but only with semi-serious body mods to my understanding. And as this is a primary car as opposed to a trail-rig, cutting into the body is not really an option. It has to be able to be driven on mostly pavement all the way to Nairobi and back on occasion, passing importation/exportation laws etc., so....

When I was told about the match up I was skeptical which is probably why I didn't check it out.

I could also get my hands on a 1KZ-T or even better a 1KD-T, which I understand are both bolt-ins...well, am sure of the 1KZ-T. These, I'm being told, do not require any other changes excepting rad switch as well. Am I being led into the woods for slaughter here as well or not??

I mean, powerwise, the numbers on a 1KD-t say 163 HP and 252 lb/ft. A 15bt has roughly 15 less HP and 20 more lb/ft. I'm not looking for a miracle here, I'm just looking for the engine that should have been put in the vehicle in the first place. The less extra-engine mods the better as far as I'm concerned.

Jason

 

[denis]

the KD engine would be absolutely brilliant if you can figure the wiring out, the KZ will be great too. Neither will work with your current bellhousing but with the specific bellhousing it will work. (I think in 1996 or something they switched to longer bellhousings and input shaft so you may want to look into that carefully.
Between the 15B and KD I'd take the KD, lightweight and excellent of fuel and plenty of power, and even more power potential. If you can lay your hands on one easily that's the engine to go for. Not being an electronics kind of guy I think one could be made to work on a mechanical pump without too much hassle but I haven't had a chance to test my therory in the real word.

 

[Mwanza Mud]

Yeah, my preference would be to go mechanical as well. With all the water I'm in and out of during rainy season, I know some day with LTE is gonna get some wire wet that shouldn't be and refuse to start for days.

I'll check into the housing. I've been leaning back towards the KD recently anyway just b/c any one you buy will be newer, but I'm positive I can go mechanical w/ the KZ.

I've seen the prices these engines take other places, but here I can get just about any of them for about 2 grand US. The KD'd be more, but not much.

 

[roscoFJ73]

Have you considered selling the LJ78 and buying a larger cruiser? I would have thought another landcruiser would be easy to find your way.

I dont know the weights of the 14B and 15B but I imagine they would be a fair bit heavier than a 2LT

Like Denis said I would have thought the 2LT would have plenty of power for offroad use.

The 1KZ T would be my next in line for an engine swap,extra power with little,if any extra weight and it will look like a factory install

 

[Mwanza Mud]

Yeah, have thought of the quick sell, but being I bought it for only $6000 a year ago and any other LC is twice as expensive here (at least) I was thinking along the lines of another engine.

And, while your right they are everywhere, the suspension is nice for the road and the weight difference is nice for staying on top of the mud, which is perpetual for rainy season. I've driven in a foot of water on what was before a road in rainy season for 15k before. Since we live on a flood plain, the rains routinely bring unexpected lakes and rivers where they were not the day before. I know your response will be that the bigger engines will add extra weight, but my response would be that we're still talking 4bangers, so not that much extra weight (if I'm wrong correct me), and we're still miles from the weight of a longwheelbase Troopy or the diesel 105 solid front axel model, the seating capacities of which are comparable the LJ78 and necessary for my use.

While I'm sure that there is someone who likes this engine, it is not me. I don't want a muscle car, I just want an engine with the strength I can depend on to get me out of the situations I find myself in daily. Some people talk about watercrossings as this once in a while thing...I do 4 watercrossings on the way to a friends house 3 minutes away. This is not a weekend getaway with the lads, its going to get groceries or diesel or going to the doctor. And I'm not complaining, I love it, but it is a different mindset than a vehicle for your weekend run.

Anyway, that's my line of thinking.


Jason

Edit: After posting read this again and realized it sounded snotty. Just to be sure, snottiness was not my mood when writing it, just informative.

 

[crushers]

i am thinking of installing a PZ with manual tranny when this sucker (my wifes bush pig) dies again...
80 series front springs
the old B series are getting harder and harder to find parts for.

 

[Mwanza Mud]

The PZ, is that the 5 cyl? What are the specs on that?

 

[brownbear]

the old B series are getting harder and harder to find parts for.

Are not the B series such as 14, 15b-t current production engines?

Might not be in a cruiser, but in dyna's/coasters etc,


The 13b-t or up the line is going to be a tough engine you can depend on day in, day out.

 

[crushers]

Bruce tried to get a fuel return line (the one at the injectors and it is out of production...
this is the troubles i am talking about...
nothing to do with the reliability issues but with part supply issues...

 

[brownbear]

is it on a 13b-t?

the 14, 15 ones should be production(not cruiser).....

 

[brownbear]

looking at my epc... the 4b in dyna/toyoace was used from 99 and up.. so that would be a rather current engine.

Even stranger the 3b was used from 1993 to 99 in some models of the coaster bus..... that is the latest production date I have heard of.

The parts may still not be available here, but in Tanzania maybe.

 

[denis]

The 1KZ T would be my next in line for an engine swap,extra power with little,if any extra weight and it will look like a factory install

I think the KZ would be lighter thanks to the aluminium head

 

[Mwanza Mud]

Are not the B series such as 14, 15b-t current production engines?

Might not be in a cruiser, but in dyna's/coasters etc,


The 13b-t or up the line is going to be a tough engine you can depend on day in, day out.

Yeah, the 14,s and 15,s are still in the Dyna's and Coaster's here, so parts are easy (again, here.)

 

[Mwanza Mud]

I think the KZ would be lighter thanks to the aluminium head

Yes, I had forgotten about that, and the KZ's are even more plentiful. We don't seem to have the blown head issues here as much as other places such as Australia (lack of interstate??) The 2lts are the blowers here, not the KZ. The KZ's are seen as reliable, well-powered engines with few problems. When you do hear of one popping, the issue is usually maintenance which is more a luxury here than a necessity.

Back to the BT's, I was behind a Dyna the other day with no load and we were both following a bus behind a semi (lot's of fun), when the Dyna sees a gap and pops out and around both of them like nothing, no lag, no lack of ability, just getting it done. Granted, with a 1 or 2 ton load maybe not possible, but it's being behind those trucks when they do things like that which has peaked my interest.

Cheers,
Jason

 

[roscoFJ73]

Yes, I had forgotten about that, and the KZ's are even more plentiful. We don't seem to have the blown head issues here as much as other places such as Australia (lack of interstate??)



Cheers,
Jason

The 1KZ is still highly regarded in oz. The ones that blow heads are usually high milers.
Long roads maybe have something to do with it. My brother travels 1500klms a week round the NW in a well maintained company Prado but the 1KZ TE still managed to blow the head at about 200000klm. Also got dust in the computer and both cost over $2000 to fix.

 

[TFS55]

i would go with the 1kz. the bt's are generally for leaf sprung front ends. you may have issues with sagging front coils with these engines. also the LJ uses hi-lux diffs which is smaller compared to the LC70's which uses the bt and hz engines. you might want to consider these also.

 

[crushers]

ummm, since the 81 series runs a HDT and those springs fit the LJ78 front end i would say the weight difference is not an issue any longer.

curious, why would ANYONE want to install an engine that has a record of blowing heads? ALL Toyota diesel engines smaller than 3.4L have the same problems... if you are going to do a swap go tougher...don't go "same s*** different pile" route.

damn, i really am starting to sound like Greg...

 

[Mwanza Mud]

Also, all LC70's coming here anymore are coil frong/leaf rear models, so I would have to agree with Wayne on that one. Anyways, I'm not concerned about the weight regarding suspension so much as whats the difference frame-wise as far as support is concerned. I mean I run this vehicle with no regard to the "light-duty" status it was given with it's name, meaning I go anywhere my colleagues go with their solid axle 105's and do so leaving considerable less ruts.

Anyway, I guess what I'm looking for is:
A. Are there any issues related to the "light duty" moniker as far as frame is concerned? If so, I haven't yet discovered it. I know it's shorter but I don't think it's weaker than its long-wheel based cousins. Somebody slap me and correct me if I'm wrong.
B. I'm talking manual transmission with the 4.88 I believe: this gonna present problems?
C. As somebody mentioned, we're talking those 8 inch diffs. If I lock one with one of these BT engines...we talking twisted metal??
D. Something else I should be thinking about that I'm not?

Jason