12H-T performance Build (1 Viewer)

[gbentink]

Dougal, I have read and been told by others that the 1HDFTE motor actually has a 59.8mm Exducer/48mm exducer (65/52 for CT26). Looking to Japan for a replacement turbine gives the same numbers. Also, CT26 is not stamped on the 1HDFTE compressor cover. The 3rd Gen 3SGTE also is similar and is called by various folks a CT20B although apparantly not an official name. The compressor cover and compressor wheel on the 1HDFTE turbo is of CT26 size however (CT26 - 46/65mm) BUT it has a "Superback" wheras the CT26 has a flat rear and a cutout. Perhaps the 1HDTE turbo may even have a 360deg thrust washer - not sure, never had one apart and guessing based on the "Superback". Factory boost at least in Japan is 1 bar.

Only place to look is at the turbine itself since the only numbers on the turbo is the exhaust housing to manifold flange.

Point taken on flow capacity. The Garrett wheels look "Clipped" compared to the CT26. I would be suprised if you couldnt get something close to the Garrett specification by doing a visual based replication.

 

[Dougal]

Dougal, I have read and been told by others that the 1HDFTE motor actually has a 59.8mm Exducer/48mm exducer (65/52 for CT26). Looking to Japan for a replacement turbine gives the same numbers. Also, CT26 is not stamped on the 1HDFTE compressor cover. The 3rd Gen 3SGTE also is similar and is called by various folks a CT20B although apparantly not an official name. The compressor cover and compressor wheel on the 1HDFTE turbo is of CT26 size however (CT26 - 46/65mm) BUT it has a "Superback" wheras the CT26 has a flat rear and a cutout. Perhaps the 1HDTE turbo may even have a 360deg thrust washer - not sure, never had one apart and guessing based on the "Superback". Factory boost at least in Japan is 1 bar.

Only place to look is at the turbine itself since the only numbers on the turbo is the exhaust housing to manifold flange.

Point taken on flow capacity. The Garrett wheels look "Clipped" compared to the CT26. I would be suprised if you couldnt get something close to the Garrett specification by doing a visual based replication.

The Mellet part catalogues show some interchangability for the whole CT20 series, from CT20's to CT26's to CT20B's (which some people call CT28's). So technically there'll be some wide blurry lines seperating a 20, 26 or 20B.

I'm not going to be allowed to remove and strip the turbo, but if you tell me where to look then I'll have a hunt with a torch and mirror to see what numbers I can find on the 2001 model 100 series.
Did you see the thread on the variable vane turbo 1HD's sold in europe?

 

[Hulsty]

PM sent

 

[gbentink]

Hi Dougal, I did not see that thread. In fact I have a variable vane turbo that is a direct bolt to CT26 flange, I wondered if it was for a 1HDFTE. Some catalogs had listed the 100 series in Europe that had a VNT, I remember reading it in a parts catalog. I was planning on using the turbo as the small one in a twin setup - could still be an option.

 

[gbentink]

The ENGINE WAS PICKED UP LAST NIGHT. I am happy for two reasons. The first is that it will be interesting to see how it goes and the second is that it is doen and no longer my job to finish...... Initially it will be running a CT26 High flowed, 3" exhaust, intercooler and 19psi. Later it might get the VNT, 30psi and alot more fuel.

 

[Dougal]

Hi Dougal, I did not see that thread. In fact I have a variable vane turbo that is a direct bolt to CT26 flange, I wondered if it was for a 1HDFTE. Some catalogs had listed the 100 series in Europe that had a VNT, I remember reading it in a parts catalog. I was planning on using the turbo as the small one in a twin setup - could still be an option.

Here's the thread.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/319314-292f-engine.html

 

[gbentink]

Glad to see this thread is still alive.

I've been at 16psi for a couple of months now and am very happy. It's interesting to learn just how over-fuelled I was at 13psi. Knocked 200F off the EGTs at high altitude with the extra boost.

I'd love to be able to run my CT26 at 20psi with complete confidence. Long term.

This is not a problem. Fit a 360 degree thrust washer kit and an upgraded compressor wheel.

I used mine fee floating up to 27psi with an upgraded compressor wheel on the std 270 deg thrust washer. Still going strong 35,000 later

 

[Adam B]

Yeah, it's my standard compressor wheel I'm most concerned about. A while back I read that the 1HD-Ts all had ceramic wheels and those weren't reliable beyond about 12psi. Another source led me to believe that it was the 7M-GTEs that used the ceramic wheel and the cruisers got a steel wheel. Last time I pulled my intake off the turbo I checked my wheel with a magnet and found that it isn't magnetic so I'm guessing that it's ceramic? As in - if it touches the wall at 100,000rpm it turns to dust?

I still have minimal radial play and no axial play so I'm not terribly worried about it self-destructing in the near future at 16psi. The thing I don't like is the way the turbo sound changes beyond about 12psi. It goes from a high-pitched "normal" turbo whine to more of a kettle whistle. It's been like that for a couple of years (ever since I started boosting beyond factory wastegate settings) so maybe I just need to stop thinking so much...

 

[Dougal]

Yeah, it's my standard compressor wheel I'm most concerned about. A while back I read that the 1HD-Ts all had ceramic wheels and those weren't reliable beyond about 12psi. Another source led me to believe that it was the 7M-GTEs that used the ceramic wheel and the cruisers got a steel wheel. Last time I pulled my intake off the turbo I checked my wheel with a magnet and found that it isn't magnetic so I'm guessing that it's ceramic? As in - if it touches the wall at 100,000rpm it turns to dust?

It's the turbine wheel which is sometimes ceramic, Gbentnik has info on those earlier in this thread. Compressor wheels are almost always aluminium alloys. There are some titanium ones but not in toyota turbos AFAIK.

 

[Adam B]

Thanks, my kiwi friend. That makes more sense.

It's been a couple of months since I read this thread in full. Some really good stuff!

I'll say again what has been said a million times on the Supra forums - it sure would be nice to see compressor maps for this turbo with the different comp wheels...

 

[gbentink]

Here's the thread.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/319314-292f-engine.html

Thanks, after the prompt I followed it. Interesting the pic with one. Mine had a motor control, not solenoid. I have since purchased a vacuum control from a VW. I would really like the factory one with the vacuum control....

 

[gbentink]

Actually Adam, as Dougal mentioned I am sure I have posted before, but the turbo in my 1HDT had a ceramic turbine....but I put it in there to dispell the myth that boost alone kills ceramic turbines. It seems that I was correct because 27psi didnt kill it - apparantly boost + excessive EGT does. They have alot less rotating mass - quite suprising in fact. The ceramic CT26 turbines came out AFAIK only on early JDM (like 1st Gen) 3SGTE engines and some Supras. But...I bought 2 JDM CT26 ex 7MGTE and both had steel turbines. It is possible people confuse "Supra" with the engine type, since the Jap 2JZGTE engines had twin CT12B turbos with ceramic turbines.

If anyone has a ceramic CT26 turbine in good nick, I would happily swap one for a good steel one.

All CT26 have detectable radial play. Generally if it isnt enough to touch the housing all is good.

Believe it or not, some turbos have plastic compressor wheels - namely some of the RB25DET!

 

[gbentink]

I just bought a 100 series Dec/2002 Half cut. ex Japan. I will let you know about the vnt

 

[Dougal]

I just bought a 100 series Dec/2002 Half cut. ex Japan. I will let you know about the vnt

I'll be watching with interest.
I'd quite like one of those turbos as well.

 

[mudgudgeon]

I still have minimal radial play and no axial play so I'm not terribly worried about it self-destructing in the near future at 16psi. The thing I don't like is the way the turbo sound changes beyond about 12psi. It goes from a high-pitched "normal" turbo whine to more of a kettle whistle. It's been like that for a couple of years (ever since I started boosting beyond factory wastegate settings) so maybe I just need to stop thinking so much...

I had a CT26 explode at 22psi. It had gone gradually fom running at a high pitched whistle to more of a scream as the boost rose above 15-18psi range.
I now have a 7mgte CT26 with 1hd-t turbine housing on it. I have run it to 22psi, and the note from it is very different from the one that blew. Its still a whistle and not a scream.

 

[Tapage]

I had a CT26 explode at 22psi..

thought this one came from a 1HD-T .?

 

[mudgudgeon]

thought this one came from a 1HD-T .?

Yep. Have since fitted one from 7mgte with 1hd-t turbine housing.

 

[gbentink]

Hi, thought an update should be in order.

Well, first of all, the half cut I put a deposit on didnt "clear" in Japan, so I was offered another and that didnt clear so I have waited until now and still nothing. So, I am cancelling the order and will try and locate a local FTE. This is all very dissapointing because the VNT was something I wanted to play with. Oh well!

All is not lost however; I have designed and built a programmable controller for VNT turbos. My cousins race truck is the recipient of this 58lbs per hour turbo (which will be maxed out at 18:1 AF ratio) and true to my cousins std quality of work, the setup is just amazing. You guys would not believe how good it is but the photos do show it. I will not post any until I am approved to do so.

Anyway, after a mishap where we completed destroyed a turbo on the dyno before even doing a power run due to oil feed issue, hopefully we will have another turbo ready today for dyno on friday. Fingers crossed we will have massive power (in Australian diesel terms) with very little smoke. I hope to video the final power run after the VNT computer has been programmed.

12HT news:

Since I am pushed for time and had decided to go for a 1HDFTE myself, I told a very good friend about a bore and stroker option that I had guarded for the 12HT that I had worked out when taking all the measurements when I was building mine. The idea is to have a huge VNT hanging off the side and feeding 140cc of fuel @ 3600rpm and peak torque of over 900nm available from 1750rpm. Well, since the turbo controller is finished (but not truely tested...) and since he thought my idea was a good one (they arent always and the engine isnt built yet...) he with my help has gone ahead with it. The block is bored, the stroker crank has arrived, the block has been welded up a bit and clearanced, the head is ported with (much) bigger valves, custom head gasket etc and......about 4.8 litres!! Standard cam to be used to maximize swirl.

Should be a first eh?

I mentioned it to someone else and they said that "a guy" had put in 3B pistons into a 2H with sleaves. I find this improbable since 3B pistons are 102mm, 2H are 91 and there is 16mm between the cylinders on a stock engine. Sleeves or not, 5mm is way too little between the cylinders, especially a diesel with cast iron.

However, perhaps he meant 2B pistons. A very uncommon engine....but 97mm (2B std) pistons would work with sleeves. Anyway, thats not what I used in the bored and stroker 12HT, but could be an option for someone.

So, a few things to write about in the next month or 2.

Not the least is how well the vnt controller works out, especially in an off road racing envirnoment where the engine is punished for hours on/off the throttle.

Next project after this is complete is to remove the governer from a 12HT injector pump and install a servo rack position controller....and an energengy air cut..... I have also wondered if a variable cam phase controller (of a gasser engine) could be retrofitted to the front of the injector pump to vary timing with load and revs etc.

Cheers!

 

[gbentink]

VNT Controller Update: Controller working really well, still a few major tweeks to optimise, but it is going well.

I have a fairly good electronics background and thought the controller would be easier and simpler than it has turned out to be. I am now calling it the "Fat Controller". No insurmountable problems though.

 

[Hulsty]

Sounds good made, cant wait to see some results!