120K Service Write up (1 Viewer)

[BMWSTOY]

Back to Work

My job had me out of town for 2 months - but today I started back up.

First this: I read somewhere - sorry can not thank the person directly - that if you put very slow constant pressure on the Timing Belt tensioner, it will slowly compress - too fast and its no good, but slow pressure will cause it will go back in. So today I used a vice and it slowly compressed after about 15 minutes. So first the hole was not lined up to pin it, but a very slow twist and it was pinned. What does this mean? It means with this knowledge I would not be in the problem situation I am in now. Thanks to the person that just did this. Lesson learned.

PLEASE DO NOT "WALK UP" A LOADED TIMING TENSIONER. It is easily replaced with a new one or slowly compress the tensioner and pin it prior to installing it. This is much less hassle than the problems associated with walking it up.

Now onto the bolt: still talking to mechanics for ideas. I have a broken bolt and now I have an extractor that is broke off inside the broken bolt. There is no drilling into an extractor, so I either drill around it and remove it or hold a tap at a 45 degree angle and knock it loose - either way it looks like a tap and dye job ahead of me. So slow progress ahead - very slow and thought out. I have learned enough lessons on this project.

 

[BMWSTOY]

For those that want to see what I am dealing with. This is a picture of the broken bolt with a broken extractor inside the bolt.
I just might be taking this to a mechanic if I can find one that will do the work.

 

[spressomon]

For those that want to see what I am dealing with. This is a picture of the broken bolt with a broken extractor inside the bolt.
I just might be taking this to a mechanic if I can find one that will do the work.

Does the bolt extractor = the diameter of the original bolt (it's hard for me to tell from the pic)? I am wondering if you can, with a Dremmel and a small pointed grinding stoner, can "drill" the extractor out...or enough to try yet another smaller extractor...or the Heli-Coil tap in?

 

[BMWSTOY]

No luck today. On the phone with anyone that will attempt this job. Most shops tell me that it is possible they have to pull the block in order to get to the bolt - 20+ hours. Another tells me $100/hr and we will call you when we need more time or any updates - guess I just give them my mortgage to my house? No idea how much this will end up costing - but I wish someone could give me a high end dollar amount so I can just bite the bullet -

 

[Maxim]

Wow, my first post and maybe I can even help some one out.

I've been eyeing a 100 series for a long time and might be buying one really soon. Till now I've just been lurking. I figure broken bolt removal is something I have a little experience in, although not in automotive applications (thank God!).

If you can get a drill in there the bolt remover can be drilled with a solid carbide drill. Look at http://www.mcmaster.com on page 2405.Make sure to put a center punch mark on the broken end of the bolt, the carbide is very hard but also brittle, it does not tolerate being banged on like a regular drill bit. Be very gentle with it.

Makita makes a really nice angle drill. Worse case scenario, buy one from HD and return it when you are done for store credit.

If you have that little stub and can get a buddy with a TIG welder to drop by , you maybe able to weld a little extension to the bolt/extractor and unscrew it out.

If you try that approach, get a can of Kroil. It a penetrating lubricant. Spray on the bolt wait 15 mins and it seeps in and helps to get it out. Obviously, do it after welding and the area cools down. Its good stuff to use on all your hard to get out bolts.

Are the threads completely Al or do they touch steel? It maybe possible to attack the bolt with nitric acid, which will leave some goo in place of the bolt. It will corrode the steel but not the Al but I would avoid going to those extremes just yet. Especially if its your first time.

There is a machine called a Tap Disintigrator, it is similar to EDM (electric discharge machining) which will eat away the hardened steel. I think there are places which have portable ones, not sure if it will clear into the engine bay. A place which does on site machinery maintenance/welding might have one (or come out with a TIG welder on a truck). Not sure if it will fit in there.

I would try drilling a small hole with a carbide drill first. If nothing else it will give you an excuse to buy a decent angle drill. A dremel isn't really the best tool for any job, its like the crescent wrench of power tools.

Pulling the engine is an extreme, many other things you can try before that will be needed.

Hope this helps.

 

[NMuzj100]

This is a great article on bolt extraction.

The Art of Extraction

The author is in Aurora and has his email address at the end of the article if you needed a lead on an shop with EDM capability.

 

[BMWSTOY]

Well I may give it one more chance now that I know I am not alone. I just hate what I did, but I do not want to mess up the block so I will almost go too careful. Sad part is I did the "*$%@" that Brian talked about.

Thank you both for the advise and article. I wrote Brian to see if such EDM machines are portable and can reach tight places or if he could recommend one in Aurora - article is 4 years old - we shall see. Ideal world - its portable and I pay someone to remove that mess up there.

 

[Maxim]

A couple of more thoughts (I take no responsibility for them or any consequences thereof).

Could you use JB weld to attach a T-shaped extension or a large nut to the stub sticking out? Soak in Kroil over night and it might be able to come out with a little gentle pursuasion.

 

[BMWSTOY]

I was able to get some drills up there and I have it threaded. Now - not sure what is happening. I have the tensioner pinned, but I can not fit it up to the top because of the pressure coming off the belt - I dont remember it being this tight - thoughts anyone?

 

[spressomon]

I was able to get some drills up there and I have it threaded. Now - not sure what is happening. I have the tensioner pinned, but I can not fit it up to the top because of the pressure coming off the belt - I dont remember it being this tight - thoughts anyone?

Sorry...I haven't crossed this bridge yet as I am now starting to remove the intake manifold to replace the starter...

 

[SWUtah]

This thread illustrates why I have these major repairs done by a dealer or a large independent shop. Sorry for your problems, hope it all works out OK.

 

[BMWSTOY]

No Yahoo yet, but at least the broken bolt is gone and there are new or repaired threads up there and the bolt is turnable by hand - back to normal or as normal as aluminum threads can get.
For some reason the lower part of the belt is really tight and the upper is loose. While the tensioner was off I had the belt held in place with the right cover off - but it appears I need to redo everything in order to have piece of mind. I remember the timing at zero when I shot a picture - but its not there now and I am not sure how or why.
Time to fabricate the crank holder tool - should have had it copied while i had Pete's. I should be able to recite the FSM by projects end

 

[jp213a]

This thread illustrates why I have these major repairs done by a dealer or a large independent shop.

For those considering a DIY timing belt job, don’t let this thread scare you off. What this tread shows is you must do your homework up-front; study the FSM, read all the related postings, and have your special tools ready (crank shaft holding tool and a hydraulic press or big vise to compress the tensioner).

I do my own work because I like knowing the job was done right and I don’t enjoy hanging around the dealer’s Customer Service waiting room with the woman and kids.

 

[SWUtah]

For those considering a DIY timing belt job, don’t let this thread scare you off. What this tread shows is you must do your homework up-front; study the FSM, read all the related postings, and have your special tools ready (crank shaft holding tool and a hydraulic press or big vise to compress the tensioner).

I do my own work because I like knowing the job was done right and I don’t enjoy hanging around the dealer’s Customer Service waiting room with the woman and kids.

If you have the skills, information, equipment and enjoy the work, then go for it. Personally I'm not in the waiting room with the woman and children. My Lexus dealership gives you a nice loaner car so you can go out and do something other then work on your car. Examples, lunch, local strip club, etc. I guess it all depends on how much money someone has and where they want to spend their time.

 

[BMWSTOY]

Its all good again.
The crank had slipped just ever so slightly that it put very tight pressure on the belt on the lower half and the upper was loose. I turned the crank about 10 degrees and that was it. The pin that pushes the tensioner pulley should be loose and you should be able to push the tensioner up by hand to hand tighten the bolts. Then of course, torque them.
Its all back together - tomorrow the coolant flush and off to the store to buy the fluids it deserves after I have left it alone in the garage for 2 months.

 

[spressomon]

Its all good again.
The crank had slipped just ever so slightly that it put very tight pressure on the belt on the lower half and the upper was loose. I turned the crank about 10 degrees and that was it. The pin that pushes the tensioner pulley should be loose and you should be able to push the tensioner up by hand to hand tighten the bolts. Then of course, torque them.
Its all back together - tomorrow the coolant flush and off to the store to buy the fluids it deserves after I have left it alone in the garage for 2 months.

Congratulations...while you're at the store buying fluids for your rig be sure to buy some fluids for your body in celebration beer: )

 

[ppressle]

Congrats. It will feel great when it fires up.

 

[BMWSTOY]

Need help

It fired up, but it was not running - more like crawling like it would do after a long sit which it had. I was running distilled water in it to flush out the old green stuff. Then I pulled it back in to the garage to put the long life Toyota Red in it.

Now it will not start? I triple checked the timing. Everything appears hooked up and there is nothing in the FSM steps that I can find that I am missing. If it was not in time, I am concerned that it would start and then cease. What would cause rough idle after this?
Can I reset something? Pull a fuse?

 

[spressomon]

It fired up, but it was not running - more like crawling like it would do after a long sit which it had. I was running distilled water in it to flush out the old green stuff. Then I pulled it back in to the garage to put the long life Toyota Red in it.

Now it will not start? I triple checked the timing. Everything appears hooked up and there is nothing in the FSM steps that I can find that I am missing. If it was not in time, I am concerned that it would start and then cease. What would cause rough idle after this?
Can I reset something? Pull a fuse?

Uh oh...I hear SWU typing already . Don't know...but when you described rotating the crank 10 degrees, to create a little slack on the PS side of the belt, the t-belt was already installed correct? And when you removed the original t-belt you did so with the crank rotated an additional 50-degrees from ATDC and then installed the new t-belt with the crank and camshafts still in this position: Correct (per the FSM)?

 

[BMWSTOY]

Yes, you are correct. But then you rotate it 2-4 times checking the timing - which would put it back to 0 degrees. Then I pulled the tensioner again with the right side clamped to the cam. Then when I put the tensioner back on I rotated it twice again and it was still in time.
Perhaps I am down to SWU and his dealer suggestion. I did leave off one hose under the air contraption - and that did cause another's to run rough so that all makes since. Now I am down to why it won't start.