100 series UZJ100 won't crank - . codes P0335 and P0340

[joshAUST]

Hi all.
My daily driver wouldn't crank today.

Summary of vehicle:
2003 UZJ100R, V8 petrol with 5 speed auto transmission.
The engine is a 2UZ-Fe 4.7ltr V8.
It has 240,000kms on the clock.
I've only had it since the start of this year, and I suspect the previous owner spent a lot of time on the beach with it, as it has some rust issues.

Summary of fault:
The car won't start - it won't crank.
Error codes P0335 and P0340
I drove it this morning with no issues, then came home and parked it for a few hours.
Then I went to start it, and it won't crank.
All the lights come on, radio, doors, lights, etc work, and the accessories turn off as they should when I attempt to crank it, but no crank.
I can also hear the fuel pump running when I try to start it.
Just no cranking.
I replaced the battery when I got it, earlier this year, with a brand new battery to suit it.
The battery indicator is green, indicating its charged, and the dash battery meter indicates its just over 14v, where it normally is.
This is the first time this issue has occurred with this car.

What I've tried:
Cannot check much as I don't have a multimeter - but I will bring one home from work tomorrow, but I suspect battery is good, as is the ground - which I checked a few weeks ago.

I thought at first it might be an issue with the park position sensor - or whatever its called - ie, the system may think its not actually in park, when it was... but I thought I'd hook up my scancode reader.
The scancode reader is reporting codes P0335 and P0340, Crankshaft and camshaft position sensor respectively.

I cleared the codes, disconnected the battery for 15 mins, then reconnected it with the same results.

I'm assuming the crank sensor is the culprit, as it drove home and I parked it fine, and, after reading a few posts, it seems to indicate if it was the cam sensor the car would stop immediately, whereas a crank sensor fault would allow the car to continue to run until it was turned off, and then would not start.

Has anyone come across this issue before?
I searched the 100 series forums on here, and only came up with three results searching "P0335 P0340" (without the quotes), none of which provided much information.

Is it hard to get to the crank sensor connector to test?
I think its under the plastic 'bash' plate, for want of a better word, but not entirely sure as yet.

Any other suggestion?

I plan on checking the resistance of the two contacts on the crankshaft position sensor once I get the multimeter from work...

As its my daily driver, I need to get it up and running asap....any help greatly appreciated.

 

[Julian Stead]

Does your engine turn over with the starter motor?, if not, try and turn the engine over by hand. Remove the belt covers and check the valve timing.

 

[Julian Stead]

It might just be your starter motor, but you have to check.

 

[joshAUST]

Thanks for your advice Julian, I appreciate it.
This morning it started up first go, no issues, drove my son to school, then, foolishly, in hindsight, stopped at a shop to get a takeaway coffee, turned off the car, and when I hopped in it again it won't start.
So I left it there with a note on the windscreen saying I'll move it asap...

I suspect you might be right re the starter motor.
It doesn't crank at all, but all electricals, fan, lights, windows, etc apart from that seem to work fine.

I tried putting it into neutral and rolled it back and forwards a bit, as I had a starter motor years ago that I could get going by that method.
I was going to try tapping the starter, but it seems to be hidden right up the back.
I tightened the battery terminals just in case, and the ground strap.
I was right near a Repco car parts shop, and they kindly bought out a car starter battery, which he said should easily start any V8, but exactly the same situation, so I ended up walking to work.

I assume the best way to test it to run a high amp lead from the battery positive to the starter motor positive contact, and seeing if it cranks?
In regards to you saying "try and turn the engine over by hand", is that by trying to turn the serpentine belt?

Do you have any idea if the sensor that detects whether the car is in park, reverse, etc ever fails, as it has the same symptoms of trying to crank it while not in park?...but I guess its the same symptoms of a dead starter...

Thanks, once again, for your advice Julian.
Any further ideas, suggestions, etc, from anyone, greatly appreciated!

 

[Julian Stead]

The starter motor is under the air intake, Toyota couldn't put it in a harder place. By Hand, I meant with a socket and bar on the crank pulley bolt but that doesn't seem to be your issue so ignore that. You have to strip off the air intake to expose the starter motor, it isn't the simplest of tasks but there are a few write ups on this site on how to do it.

 

[FxFormat]

You could try to give it more juice from a jump to give the starter a quick jolt. From what you’re describing, sounds like the starter or the starter contacts need attention. It’s not hard, just long and tedious to get to it.

 

[joshAUST]

Thanks again Julian.
Ah, yes, of course, re socket and bar.
I've had the air intake off when I cleaned the throttle body and butterfly flap thingy and replaced all the coils, so I'm familiar with removing it.
It does look like its in a really awkward location though.

Thanks also FxFormat. Yes, I thought of trying a high amp cable from the battery directly to the starter...
Pretty sure it is the starter, but I'll try it if I get a chance time-wise, otherwise I'll have to get it towed to the mechanic.
Thanks again.

I've had a very quick read of the procedure... and it looks like the intake manifold needs to come off, so I should replace those gaskets...
Is there any other parts that should be replaced while the starter is getting replaced?

I think I'll replace the entire starter, rather than just the contacts, as this car has spent a lot of time at the beach by the PO, and there's quite a lot of rust issues, so I wouldn't be surprised if the rest of the starter windings are corroded... and given the work to replace it, I might as well put in a good quality replacement.

 

[Spike555]

"No crank" means the engine does NOT turn over with the starter motor.
"No start" means the engine turns over with the starter motor but does NOT start and run.

 

[joshAUST]

Hi Spike.
Yes, it doesn't crank, turn the key, and you can hear a click, but that is it.
Sorry if I didn't make that clear.
I've edited the second line of my post to make it clearer, I hope.

I left it overnight, and this morning it started first go, then foolishly stopped to buy a coffee and turned it off, and it won't start again.
I'm assuming its the starter.

The only other thing I can think of was we have had a LOT of rain in the last few days.
I originally had very bad leaks in the front passenger and driver side, coming down the door jamb, thingy, from the roof rack mounts leaking, and a dodgy replacement window job with screws. Several months ago I removed the roofrack, and the window strips, cleaned and applied sikaflex everywhere, and while it has massively reduced the water ingress, I did get a bit the other night, which I guess was the cause of the codes it threw.
Since clearing the codes, and leaving it overnight, it drove fine today, without tripping any fault codes. Then I stopped, and it is no longer cranking again.

Just thought I'd mention those extra bits, in case you or anyone thought it might be relevant.

 

[fooldall1]

Starter issue is common it seems on these after 200,000 miles The previous owner had work done on mine 3 k miles before I bought it at 215k..looks like it was starter contacts.

 

[Spike555]

Sounds like a bad starter to me. It gets hot and then won't work, it cools and works.

 

[joshAUST]

Thanks again Spike, and Fooldall1.
You're both on the money.
Thanks for all the other advice as well.

OK, a bit of an update, FWIW.

It is most likely is the starter motor.
Its currently at the mechanics.
It had rusted in there so badly it took a lot of effort to remove it.
I must say it is a pretty poor design to place the starter motor in that location.
First, its not easy to get to - involving removing the intake manifolds, etc of.
Then, the starter motor sits in a depression that would collect water, assuming you are crossing water with it.
There are two small drain holes that looks like they drain straight into the flywheel housing - whatever you call it.
I assume it then drains away from there.
However, if you have rust, as mine does, those holes can easily block, leaving your starter sitting in a pool of water.
There was a LOT of rust in there.

The welsh plugs will probably be replaced while the inlet manifolds are off.
I don't want to touch the knock sensors, as they look like they'd break straight away.
Even the rust around the welsh plugs make me not want to replace them...

I should find out late today or Monday what the outcome is.
Thanks again for all your input, I appreciate it.
Have a good weekend.

 

[Spike555]

Keep us posted please.

 

[Xetabur]

If all you hear is a click, it’s the starter. Ask me how I know.

 

[bigredmachine]

if your thinking of replacing the knock sensors replace the harness as well, it gets nice and crispy and the connectors will most likely break. i always sell the harness when i replace knock sensors for that reason

 

[joshAUST]

Thanks guys.
No update as yet, but should hear tomorrow or tuesday.
Thanks bigredmachine.
If I do, I'll replace the harness as well, thanks for suggesting it.
Its a good idea. It looks like a very hot area, and the connectors do look very brittle.

I'm REALLY not wanting to replace the knock sensors, as they look so rusted I suspect they may snap off.
Given their location, I suspect they would not be fun to get out.

Suggestions, recommendations?

Should I leave the knock sensors as they are, or should I try and replace them?
If they do shear off or break off... I'm guessing you'd have to drill them out.. and given their location, I imagine all the shavings would fall straight into the engine?
Any other way of doing it, if it comes to it?
Or are the knock sensors strong (I'm hoping) enough to remove despite the rust?

Or do I leave them... and hope they don't ever fail?
Are they known to fail?
Is it common?

Sorry to fire off more questions...but I do appreciate any help, advice or suggestions anyone can offer.

 

[joshAUST]

OK. Finally an update.
It was the starter motor.
Unfortunately, the knock sensors and harness would have taken too long to get in, so the originals have been left in.
New inlet manifold gaskets installed.
Fuel trims have got closer to zero, and are less unbalanced, so I suspect there might have been a bit of a leak on one side with the original inlet gaskets.
It seems a little more responsive.
Its nice to be driving it again.
Thank you all for your advice and suggestions, I really appreciate it!

 

[YungTexx]

Sounds like a bad starter to me. It gets hot and then won't work, it cools and works.

Ive been researching an issue for my 99 LC. I saw this quote and has made me question what my problem could be. My LC cools and has trouble but runs perfect when hot.

My LC has been throwing a P0335 crankshaft code intermittently the last few months, more so in the last few weeks. Sensor has been replaced with a toyota part. Alternator has been replaced as well. Unknown battery rampage when cold.

My LC always usually starts after a single 5-10 second crank. Sometimes a few, sometimes with no crank at all. I always "pat" her on the dash when she starts and then after driving to temperature and typically multiple errand stops, she never has trouble starting again until the next morning.

I wanted to keep it short and sweet and see if anyone had ideas, input, or further inquiry. Any help would be wonderful here before going ahead and buying a reman'd starter.

 

[luzarj]

Is there a video or repair instructions to replace the camshaft position sensor on a 100 series LC (Not VVTI)? Cannot find anything via search