Leaky birf - but only on driver side??!! (1 Viewer)

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alia176

alia176

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This will be the third seal that's going in on the driver side front axle! :eek: The second one was from Marlin kit so I thought maybe it was a fluke! Now, I'll be doing my third birf repack this weekend with the oem seal.

When I take this seal out, I'll take a close look at the wear points. If it's on the bottom lip of the seal, then the axle is no longer centered and I may need to reshim the knuckle housing. IdahoDoug, hurry up and come up wth the shim thickness, will ya ? :crybaby:

Anyway, why is this happening on the driver side only? I'm also thinking perhaps its due to the locking hubs? Perhaps the driver side axle is "walking" axially and the seal is not riding on the smooth surface of the axle? I'm using two snap rings to center the stub axle. Incidentally, I think the leak is worse due to Redline Synthetic diff oil. Before, I had birf soup but drip drip on the rim. But now, it's really bad!

Recap:
109,460 replaced both oem seals with Marlin kit seal (all seals replaced plus wipers)
115,870 replaced driver Marlin with oem seal
134,5xx about to replace the driver seal again with OEM :mad:

Anyway, here're some pics to illustrate. The first one is the driver, then pass, then the driver tire.

Thanks for any inputs and TGIF :cheers: :bounce: :bounce2: :flipoff2: .

Ali
driv birf.JPG
pass birf.jpg
wet tire.JPG
 
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look at the spindle bushing as well. This is what holds that end of the axle up in place. I've seen one of these worn down pretty good. Same truck had a groove in the axle so the grease and oil was mixing quite nicely.

No insult here, but you are orientating the seal properly on install?
 
landtank said:
No insult here, but you are orientating the seal properly on install?
Click to expand...


None taken...perhaps I'm installing them backwards. I'll take a pic just to make sure.

Ali
 
Could the axle housing be slightly bent? The drivers side is longer and would be more prone to bending.
 
The lip of the seal should be inwards on the housing, in other words, the the face of the seal should be facing you as you fit it. if that makes sense LOL
 
You're referring to the "smooth/shiny" side of the seal? If so, that's how I have it.
 
first time i did the same as you ,


secound time arond, by using a dremmel and lots of time i carefully cut down one seal by 2-3millimeters and replaced the leaky seal with two oem seals (the cut seal inner and the unmodified seal outer) i also replaced the spindle bushing.

by this i achived that the seals are not in the same position and therfor does not align with the groove in the axel, and i now have double seals :D


it worked for me, just remeber to order a couple of extra seals, if they overheat or you accidently cut to deep they are ruined .

good luck
 
Ali,
Do you have wear around the axle contacts the seal? I recently purchased a set of axle/birf's from a 93 w/ 270K on them for spares. Both axle's had deep grooves worn into their seal mating surfaces. I was told that a 'speedy sleeve' could be used to solve the problem, by bringing the fit back to spec. That might be the problem. If it is, check out this link for some info http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/SpeediSleeve/index.html

Hope that helps. If not, at least you will become refined in your birf service. I had to redo my birf job from 6 months ago, to replace the trunion bearings. The Toyota dealer told me that the bearings were good for a 150-200K miles. :ban: Not accurate in my case. Ergo, I use Dan for all my parts. Seems like few mechanics will put the same effort that we ourselves do when wrenching.

Chris
94FZJ80 135K Locked 2.5 OME pin 7/center switch
 
It's normal for the driver's side to fail sooner than passenger's side due to the disparity in axle lengths. IMO the bushing is not the cause, but a symptom of the problem. Check the splines in the drive flange for wear, or make sure the axle isn't walking with manual hubs.
 
You could try Warn hubs or a spacer behind the Aisin hub and the so the axle stub is tight against the spindle where OEM designed it to run and see if that makes the problem go away. Mine never leaked until I tried Aisin hubs.
 
The seal is orientated so the spring is on the inside.


And I always thought that the long side produced less stress on the bushing than the short side do to leverage loss from the length of the axle.

In any event, a badly worn bushing is accompanied by a badly worn drive flange and worn splines on the birf shaft. While allowing the axle top trash the inner seal.
 
LandCruiserPhil said:
You could try Warn hubs or a spacer behind the Aisin hub and the so the axle stub is tight against the spindle where OEM designed it to run and see if that makes the problem go away. Mine never leaked until I tried Aisin hubs.
Click to expand...


I have two C clips to space the axle properly. I really wanted three but that's a hair too much. So there's little axial movement, not sure if that's a big problem or not.
 
alia176 said:
I have two C clips to space the axle properly. I really wanted three but that's a hair too much. So there's little axial movement, not sure if that's a big problem or not.
Click to expand...

Ali do you have 2 C-clips behind the retaining C-clip or one?

Is there a micro grove where the seal rides on the axle?
 
Phil,

I can' t recall exactly but I think one clip is in the groove, the other one is right behind it... Will know for sure this weekend.
 
I have only two as well. I don't get the messy soupy mess you do. I just get the normal "you overfilled the birf you idiot" grease coming out of the wipers. either way...i'm 2 years in and will probably replace the seals and check how the amsoil is holding up.

kumar
 
alia176 said:
This will be the third seal that's going in on the driver side front axle! :eek: The second one was from Marlin kit so I thought maybe it was a fluke! Now, I'll be doing my third birf repack this weekend with the oem seal.Ali
Click to expand...

My thoughts are:

1. Overfilling of the moly in the steering knuckle cavity. You are running moly aren't you?
2. Too much oil in the differential
3. Improper installation of the felt wiper/seal/ring assembly

Your axial comments make sense. If there is any play in the outer hub that would allow the shaft end to have play, it would result in immediate wear on the inner axle seal. Do your locking hubs mate up tight like the stock drive flanges?
 
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Ali, just noticed what looks odd in your pictures...why don't you have the brake backing plate on there? That would make a slight difference in spacing...not enough to matter I'd think, but just curious.
 
The backing plates are notorious on trapping small pebbles and make that awful sound...You know that sound of a cat being pulled through a meat grinder! I usually pick up the pebbles from the local muddy terrain..another reason IH8MUD!
 
If I'm reading this correctly, you guys are thinking axial (axle moving inboard/outboard straight along its axis) is an issue here. I don't think so as the seal can easily handle a few mm's of movement. But that extra c clip IS an interesting strategy to move an inner axle groove away from the inner axle seal - just worries me a bit that you're simultaneously disengaging some axle splines at the diff end. So is the double seal idea. Interesting stuff, guys.

Alia,

When you open yours up, be extremely careful not to tear up or dislodge the seal and take a picture of it as well as carefully establish which direction your wear is occuring. My guess is it will be in the 6 O'clock direction (straight down) but I'll be very interested. If it is off center, you'll want to have a very clear picture which direction if we're going to correct it.

DougM
 
Will do Doug.
 
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