No-Start rears its ugly head. Saga continues. Sleuth(s) still needed.

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roncruiser

roncruiser

Joined
Oct 28, 2004
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Location
San Diego
The no-starts reared its ugly head with a vengence! I took the family through Joshua Tree yesterday and almost every start was a no-start. There was one no-start during the week last week, but gave it no thought at the time.

I thought I had the problem done with. Details can be found on this thread:https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=125974
Its a long thread and anyone new coming in I thought would benefit from a new thread summarizing its information thus far.

Obvously, I was wrong about the ignition switch. At the moment, I'm at a loss. My trip yesterday was ruined (for me) because of this .
I cannot think of any reason why this problem would just suddenly pop up again. With every fix comes a lull in the "intermittant starting", but eventually comes around. That's the trend I have noticed.

The only thing I can think of to replace are the:
Maine starter cable from positive battery terminal.
Starter to new.
Neutral safety switch to new (or bypass).

Here is a list of things I have done so far to fight this problem:
Changed out to new starter contacts.
Swapped out starter with another (used) starter and swtiched over (new) starter contacts.
Cleaned and dressed all contacts and connections.
Replaced negative battery cable with new one.
Replaced postive battery terminal with new.
Replaced fusible links (assembly) at positive battery terminal with new.
Replaced ignition swtich with new.
Swapped out to friends new battery.

Another possiblity I thought of during my stressful time in Joshua tree is the aftermarket alarm malfunctioning.

Again, any advice or new ideas on this on-going problem would be appreciated you guys.
 
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roncruiser said:
Another possiblity I thought of during my stressful time in Joshua tree is the aftermarket alarm malfunctioning.

Again, any advice or new ideas on this on-going problem would be appreciated you guys.
Click to expand...

DEFINITELY worth looking into. Sorry to hear of your misfortune, I can relate and know it is extremely frustrating.
 
Is there a way to bypass your alarm. Of course you don't need to tell us, but if there is, try do disable it. You will have to remove the EFI fuse every time you leave the truck, but you need this experiment. Alarms tend to be very fussy indeed. The more expensive the alarm, the more problems and unanswered questions. Give it a try, as this might be the reason.
 
I agree with the above replies. Your after market alarm is a big unknown. About all you DO know is that those alarms will disable the ability to start the vehicle.... and that is your problem.

Somehow, you have to disable that alarm to eliminate it as the source of your no-start problems.

-B-
 
Most alarm systems use a starter interupt. If you could set up a test light temporarily on the small wire to the starter and wire it into the cab, you would be able to tell if the problem is in the signal to the starter or in the primary elec system somewhere. In other words, if you get a no start, and the test light does not light up, you need to look at the ignition crank circuit, ie. neutral saftey switch or alarm. If it does light up, then you either have a problem with the power supply to the starter (battery or cable), the starter is losing ground (I've only seen this once in 12 yrs of working on cars), or you have an internal starter problem. It would at least narrow your choices down a bit. Hope this helps, and best of luck. James.:cheers:
 
Anything of aftermarket that is in the loop is always the highest suspect to me ALWAYS! get the hint?
 
Check out my no start issue to see if it can help:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=73390&highlight=start

Actually after looking at the thread again it looks like the diagram Raven posted is gone. Long story short the "factory" alarm was causing my issues. The kill switch relay had gotten wet from a leaky windshield and corroded out. Replacing the relay got my truck started again.
 
My dad had a mysterious no start problem w/ his Toyota previa and he eventually hard wired a start button to the starter. He had the crank wire and the start button tied together so if the key wouldn't crank it the button would. When he finally got it to me I diagnosed a bad starter relay. I hope the relay on the Land Cruisers are easier than a Previa because it was a real PITA! Good luck.
 
Wow, a bad starter relay on a Previa? How could it possibly have more than 1000 starts on it?
 
We had six Previas at one time and are down to three now. All of them have 225,000 or more miles and have been great vehicles. The only real downfalls are the accessory shafts and battery cables,other than that we can't kill em.:eek:
 
All day this no start thing's been happening. I cannot call it an intermittant start problem anymore. It happens all the time. Eventually, the vehicle starts but most turns of the key it just won't happen.

I'll bring the vehicle to the shop that installed the alarm. Hopefully early this week.

The thing that thing I truly don't understand is that each turn of the key I get the click/clink at the starter during no-starts.
 
my starting problem was a bad connection on the kill switch for my anti theft /alarm system .. intermediant until the wire broke .. what a good time that was to find ..
 
roncruiser said:
All day this no start thing's been happening. I cannot call it an intermittant start problem anymore. It happens all the time. Eventually, the vehicle starts but most turns of the key it just won't happen.

I'll bring the vehicle to the shop that installed the alarm. Hopefully early this week.

The thing that thing I truly don't understand is that each turn of the key I get the click/clink at the starter during no-starts.
Click to expand...
The no start issue still gets to me, I had a battery that was around two years old as well, it was supposed to be the biggest Autozone carries, as far as cranking juice. At the end of the day I thru in the yellow top optima for kicks and giggles and all has been good, don't understand why, but it worked. I went to Autozone and had them test my alternator to see if enough juice was returning for a charge and it was but when the battery was tested they told me it was a bit low. This is why I did the battery change. I had the same click with the turn of a key which means to me not enough juice is getting to it. The only thing off your list I did not do was the ignition switch, simply because I have a remote start alarm and the switch is completely bypassed which ment the switch had nothing to do with it. One thing I did do which is not on your list but made no difference was run a secondary wire from the ignition switch to lead, this wire only becomes hot when its in the crank position, essentially its the same wire as the lead on the starter ( the small wire) but I did it just to rest my mind to thinking it was the lead wire not carring enough juice, it made no difference. The battery solved my issues. Good luck to you, and keep us posted.
 
I want to plan ahead. Assuming its not the aftermarket car alarm, is there anything wrong with temporarily wiring the following? (Sorry for the bad drawing.) Reason being are big voltage drops across potentially bad splices and connector. This will help me eliminate the connector or splice points as problems (IH1,E8,I1).
ign_schematic.webp
 
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My no start is the connector or pin at the neutral safety switch. If it doesn't start I just have to pull the connector plugs together while someone turns the key. The plug appears to be connected properly, then NO START! I will unclip the harness this weekend & investigate.
 
This is exactly what I did, I ran that extra wire from the switch to the starter, because of the voltage drop that I was getting but no difference was made because my battery voltage was only at 12v and I was told I needed atleast 12.5v or something like this. I diddn't think it would have made a differece from the half of a volt but it did once the other battery was in. I still left that extra wire in there because really it could not hurt anything, and to this day all is good.
 
I took a little break from work and went out and measured the voltage across the battery terminals. It measured 12.67V.

Fortunately (or unfortunately), the vehicle was in a no-start (mood). I measured the voltage of the small black (its actually black-red) wire that goes to the starter, but measured it at the ignition switch. It measured 12.1V when I tried cranking it. Almost a 0.7 volt drop to the ignition switch :eek: when the switch is closed. Something to be concerned about?

Don't know if I'll be able to make it to the car alarm place today :frown:

Is the voltage drop too great?
 
roncruiser said:
I took a little break from work and went out and measured the voltage across the battery terminals. It measured 12.67V.

Fortunately (or unfortunately), the vehicle was in a no-start (mood). I measured the voltage of the small black (its actually black-red) wire that goes to the starter, but measured it at the ignition switch. It measured 12.1V when I tried cranking it. Almost a 0.7 volt drop to the ignition switch :eek: when the switch is closed. Something to be concerned about?

Don't know if I'll be able to make it to the car alarm place today :frown:

Is the voltage drop too great?
Click to expand...
I don't think its enough to worry, I noticed it to be around the same amount, where I saw the significant change was at the actual starter (the lead wire) while someone was cranking it.
 
Beto said:
I don't think its enough to worry, I noticed it to be around the same amount, where I saw the significant change was at the actual starter (the lead wire) while someone was cranking it.
Click to expand...

By "lead wire" do you mean the big main battery cable that hooks up directly from the positive battery cable to the starter?

During no-starts, I measured 12.1 volts at the ignition switch of the small black-red wire that goes to the starter. I can imagine another 0.1 volt drop measured at the end of the wire at the starter.
 
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