No-Start rears its ugly head. Saga continues. Sleuth(s) still needed.

[Beto]

By "lead wire" do you mean the big main battery cable that hooks up directly from the positive battery cable to the starter?

During no-starts, I measured 12.1 volts at the ignition switch of the small black-red wire that goes to the starter. I can imagine another 0.1 volt drop measured at the end of the wire at the starter.

I ment the little wire that is at the starter, the one that comes from the ignition switch, I thought it would drop maybe little to nothing but I lost about 2 volts when I tested it. To this day I still don't know why it did that. I never did test it after I added that second wire.

 

[roncruiser]

Swapped out the battery with a friends new one. Same symptoms. Still no-starting. I've officially ruled out the battery.

 

[Beto]

This really sucks, I'm out of suggestions...........sorry bud and good luck to you.

 

[roncruiser]

Yeah, I'm bummed. I tried to contact the place that installed my alarm. Initial indications are that they went out of business. I'll have drive by to see if they are still around.

 

[DaveyBoy]

Yeah, I'm bummed. I tried to contact the place that installed my alarm. Initial indications are that they went out of business. I'll have drive by to see if they are still around.

I would think that any good alarm tech would be able to check it
out for you. Good luck, I hope it works out.

 

[roncruiser]

I bought a remote starter switch. I'll hook it up between the battery and the tab where the little black-red wire hooks on to the starter. What's the proper way to crank the engine? Does the key have to be in the "on" position?

During a no-start I'll get out and hook up the remote starter switch and see if its really the starter giving me troubles.

Late work nights this week. No time to bring the vehicle to shop to have the alarm checked out.

 

[Beto]

I bought a remote starter switch. I'll hook it up between the battery and the tab where the little black-red wire hooks on to the starter. What's the proper way to crank the engine? Does the key have to be in the "on" position?

During a no-start I'll get out and hook up the remote starter switch and see if its really the starter giving me troubles.

Late work nights this week. No time to bring the vehicle to shop to have the alarm checked out.

Either way it should crank with the remote device, if you turn the key to the on position it will simply just start the vehicle after cranking, but if you don't then the car will just crank and crank.

 

[concretejungle]

All day this no start thing's been happening. I cannot call it an intermittant start problem anymore. It happens all the time. Eventually, the vehicle starts but most turns of the key it just won't happen.

I'll bring the vehicle to the shop that installed the alarm. Hopefully early this week.

The thing that thing I truly don't understand is that each turn of the key I get the click/clink at the starter during no-starts.

Now i'm really worried since i do not have a factory alarm or aftermarket alarm in and i have had all the same symptoms as Ron. I have not replaced the ignition, but i have replaced the plunger and contacts. The next day i had the same issues of intermittent starting.

 

[hobbes]

For the aftermarket alarm question, I have two fuses under the dash that come with my system. I was having intermintant problems with the alarm. I believe I traced it to one of the wires connected to one of the fuses. Anyhow, in the interim I pulled the fuses so that the alarm (and remote start) get no power.

 

[roncruiser]

Now i'm really worried since i do not have a factory alarm or aftermarket alarm in and i have had all the same symptoms as Ron. I have not replaced the ignition, but i have replaced the plunger and contacts. The next day i had the same issues of intermittent starting.

Bummer to hear. Are your no-starts happening more or less frequently relative to a time before?

For me, the no-starts seem to likely happen when the vehicle has been warmed up and running around. First start in the morning it starts up fine. Not one no-start first thing in the morning. This friggin' sucks.

 

[concretejungle]

Bummer to hear. Are your no-starts happening more or less frequently relative to a time before?

For me, the no-starts seem to likely happen when the vehicle has been warmed up and running around. First start in the morning it starts up fine. Not one no-start first thing in the morning. This friggin' sucks.

mine are totally random. But it always does start.

Mine are either a slight pause, just before the starter turns on, or, (and this is the weird one) its almost like power is cut from the starter in the middle of a cycle and then re-applied. Make sense? It usually will make a loud "Pop" sound as the starter tries to pick backup. When this happens i will let off the key, pause a second and then start it up. Weird....

 

[roncruiser]

For the aftermarket alarm question, I have two fuses under the dash that come with my system. I was having intermintant problems with the alarm. I believe I traced it to one of the wires connected to one of the fuses. Anyhow, in the interim I pulled the fuses so that the alarm (and remote start) get no power.

Hobbes. Please elaborate. I also have two fuses under for the alarm system.
Are you saying you just pulled the fuses and the intermittant problems went away along with your vehicle security?
I'm not sure what you're trying to say as it relates to intermittancy.

...I just went out and pulled the fuses and the truck still fired up. What kind of alarm system is that?

 

[roncruiser]

mine are totally random. But it always does start.

Mine are either a slight pause, just before the starter turns on, or, (and this is the weird one) its almost like power is cut from the starter in the middle of a cycle and then re-applied. Make sense? It usually will make a loud "Pop" sound as the starter tries to pick backup. When this happens i will let off the key, pause a second and then start it up. Weird....

At times I get the same thing... When the starter does crank, at times, it sounds like power will stop right in the middle of a crank cycle then pick up again. When it picks up again there will be a short grind of gears as it attempts to engage the engine side gear.

In any case, I've had the same symptoms you've described at least once during this fiasco.

 

[roncruiser]

Where are junctions E8 and I18 located?

 

[roncruiser]

Anyhow, got the install guide for my aftermarket alarm. The ignition and starter kill look easy enough to bypass. Its just a matter of disconnecting from the alarm module and jumpering the leads together. My bet is it's not the alarm.
I'll find out during this weekend. Reason being is the starter does not crank when the engine compartment is hot. When the engine compartment is not hot, the starter always cranks. Will update as I know more.

 

[Beto]

Anyhow, got the install guide for my aftermarket alarm. The ignition and starter kill look easy enough to bypass. Its just a matter of disconnecting from the alarm module and jumpering the leads together. My bet is it's not the alarm.
I'll find out during this weekend. Reason being is the starter does not crank when the engine compartment is hot. When the engine compartment is not hot, the starter always cranks. Will update as I know more.

Still working on the no-start, man this just sucks. I honestly don't think its got anything to do with the alarm because you still get the click so if it was the starter kill from the alarm it wouldn't even do that. A relay that cuts out the circuit will either be open or closed. Like you said, its easy to remove that relay to see if thats the problem;
1 wire that comes from the alarm module
1 wire that is hot
2 wires that are bridged by the relay on the ignition part of the car. Usually a white/black and a back wire. Bringing these two back together will bypass the alarm and allow you to start the car even if the alarm is going off.

 

[roncruiser]

I honestly don't think its got anything to do with the alarm because you still get the click so if it was the starter kill from the alarm it wouldn't even do that.

Good point. Yeah, it should't even click if it was the alarm.

My belief is that its the starter. I should have just replaced the old one with a new (remanufactured) one. Instead I thought "I'll save some money" and buy a used one.

Another thing that could be wrong is the wiring. There are two other non-obvious splice points for the starter wire. One is in the dash on the passenger side and the other is IIRC somewhere in the engine compartment. So the little black-red wire does not take the shortest distance to the starter. It runs the length of the dash and out into the engine compartment to the starter.

 

[fj80psi]

The black-red wire was not making good contact at the plug on the neutral safety switch on mine. This was confirmed after I went off road last weekend. It appears that someone damaged the clip before I got the vehicle. I had to pull the connector down with zip ties (ghetto fix) until I can purchase a new plug. I had similar no starts and thought it was the alarm. The remote starter worked & then I looked at the starter circuit. Works every time now! Did you try to jump the starter yet while it was not starting with the key?

 

[Beto]

Good point. Yeah, it should't even click if it was the alarm.

My belief is that its the starter. I should have just replaced the old one with a new (remanufactured) one. Instead I thought "I'll save some money" and buy a used one.

Another thing that could be wrong is the wiring. There are two other non-obvious splice points for the starter wire. One is in the dash on the passenger side and the other is IIRC somewhere in the engine compartment. So the little black-red wire does not take the shortest distance to the starter. It runs the length of the dash and out into the engine compartment to the starter.

I know what you mean about the wire taking the longest path to the starter, this is why I decided to just splice into the wire that is right at the ignition switch and run that extra wire all the way to the starter. but you know after all this talk I completely forgot to tell you that I not only changed the battery and did the wire but I also changed out the starter that I got from kragen and went with one that I got from Napa. The only reason I never mentioned it was because when I put the one in from Napa it did the no-start problem again, so I through that theory out the window.

 

[roncruiser]

Saturday morning, I unconnected the ignition and starter wires from the alarm.
I jumped them and still got no-starts. Well, that effectively eliminated the alarm as the problem.

Early last week, I ordered a remanufactured starter from Dan. I received it just in time for a Saturday install. The vehicle seems to work fine now that the new starter is in. Though, I said this last time when I thought everything was fixed. After a month or more of consecutive starts I'll call it a successful fix.