http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/80bigend_oil-analysis-scam.htm
That sort of thing wouldn't happen here would it?
That sort of thing wouldn't happen here would it?
JDM Diesel? You'd better read this.
- Thread starter Previa Diesel
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
big end bearing failures affect pretty much every 1hdt motor from 91-93. There was a recall by toyota to fix the problem in Australia. It would also affect imported vehicles from Japan, so if you did import one i'd still be checking it out. It's possible to hide the problem for some time using thicker oil. Also some japanese exports have had the odo fiddled with.
Also I like how this guy describes himself as a lubrication engineer
I think they have these in more than just the mechanical industry
Also I like how this guy describes himself as a lubrication engineer
I think they have these in more than just the mechanical industry- Thread starter
- #3
Was there a recall or did they just fix them on the quiet?
Anway, the point in starting this thread was to discuss the suitability - or lack of it - of NA oils in JDM trucks.
It sounds like their formulations are very different.
I've read both sides of this arguement and I really can't say who is right. I still changed my bearings as its a pretty easy way to get peace of mind (mine bearings were fine). A BEB failure will cost you big dollars if you lose the crank.
Keep in mind most cases I've read about are in excess of 150,000K and most over 200,000K.
Keep in mind most cases I've read about are in excess of 150,000K and most over 200,000K.
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
- Threads
- 558
- Messages
- 8,123
- Location
- Kamloops, BC Canada
- Website
- www.shopraddcruisers.ca
Small piece of mind swapping out the bearings, its been 30/50 so far with half near failure.
I would not hesitate to swap them out after what I have seen.
The boys in New Zealand seem to say they have seen none to little failure thus fare and this is new to them?
Rob
I would not hesitate to swap them out after what I have seen.
The boys in New Zealand seem to say they have seen none to little failure thus fare and this is new to them?
Rob
BEB`s
heard a lot about beb failures/replacements but have never seen one come through the door,i even asked my service manager whos been here for 12 odd years and doesnt remember doing any but he had heard of it and reckoned that another dealership had a run of them and that they may have been running the wrong grade of diesel oil in all there engines(something along those lines dont quote me please!)
heard a lot about beb failures/replacements but have never seen one come through the door,i even asked my service manager whos been here for 12 odd years and doesnt remember doing any but he had heard of it and reckoned that another dealership had a run of them and that they may have been running the wrong grade of diesel oil in all there engines(something along those lines dont quote me please!)
I have never heard of anyone in NZ having trouble with their Big End Bearings. Having said that my dealer replaced the Big End Bearings before i took delivery of my 80. Have heard of problems in Australia with BEB's though. Mostly made worse by not fixing the problem at the first hint of trouble.
My cruiser now has 225k on the clock and is going fine.
My cruiser now has 225k on the clock and is going fine.
Over here, there have been numerous sets of BEB's pulled and replaced that were clearly near death. Cheap insurance and worth the peace of mind to just change the bearings out. Then no worries and increased resale. It just isn't worth the downside risk of a problem for a relatively low cost repair. The cost of potential repairs is approximately 9-10X the cost of bearing replacement (about 6K CDN vs about 600-700 for the bearings, done by a shop, but you can do them yourself for less if you have the skills, time and tools.)
I ain't no oil engineer, however the experience in Canada with these JDM imports is making it obvious that JDM oils have not been saving the connecting rod bearings. Perhaps the JDM spec oil is delaying the bearing issue (and even that is subject to debate)...but experience in Canada with the JDM vehicles from people who change them out show it is not stopping it... by any margin at all. Again, talk to any shop In Canada that changes out these bearings on a routine basis. Typically the engines have been run all their life on JDM spec oils...the rate showing issues is high enough to make checking/swapping out the connecting rod bearings standard practice for any of the high end importers.
Not taking anything away from good oils and that argument: We are ensuring all 1HD-T/HD-FT and HZ engines we process are changed out to ACL bearings. If I am wrong in my thoughts, it does not change out the fact that JDM oils appear to not saving these bearings from failure.
It may be good insurance to run a high calcium based oils, however I would suggest do not assume, have your bearings checked and I recommend changing them out to ACL's.
There is chatter that newer models with factory connecting rod bearings have occationaly shown issues too (post 1993, and even into the late 90's). This is one reason we now use ACL only.
Willam-Jan at one time had an article somewhere on his site that references Toyota going to a lower pollution standard, which impacted the metals used in the bearings. Bearing composition of the ACL's is different then factory.
hth's
gb
EDIT 2024: As referenced on Mud in many threads Taiho are a great option as well.
Last edited:
After reading the essay I think the whole problem was caused by low-quality oil. The author wrote about the API rating, American Patrolium Industry, and how New Zeland doesn't have one. This the most important fact because that essentially means New Zeland could be getting oil that is no better than SA oil by American Standards. SA isn't much better than expelling a can of WD-40 into the engine and running it on that. In the US we now how SH oil which is great stuff. I'm also glad the author also mentioned that he saw little difference between many differnt oil brands. This is something I've known for a long time. That is why I don't usually by name brand oils, instead I just look on the back for the SH rating and that's all anyone should care about.
- Thread starter
- #14
That's interesting because there is mention in this thread: http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/80bigend.htmof ACL bearing being "lead" (ie: babbit or 'bearing metal') instead of the aluminum alloy in the Toyota bearings, with bronze shells instead of Toyota's steel(?) shells.
Just from a layman's point of view I would think aluminum alloy bearings would be harder than babbit and therefore better able to stand the pounding of a turbo diesel, but perhaps they are too hard and become brittle and break down instead.
It is suggested here that the oil pump does not generate enough pressure under certain conditions: http://offroadpakistan.com/tech/motivation_equa.html (Thanks for the link BigBrownDog)
From: http://www.safari4x4.com.au/80scool/..._bearings.html (Yours again BBD!)
Last edited:
Previa, those links have been around a number of years now, and this offers no new information, thought the 80's cool list is somewhat current and updated. The only new information I have been able to interpolate is from the thought that high calcium JDM spec oils were saving the connecting rod bearings. Experience is showing that a good number of 1HD-T equipped JDMs arriving in Canada show bearing degradation.
I've no idea on the grade or quality of Ozzy or NZ spec oils and will not offer opinion.
I think it is a good idea to change to ACL. I think it is a good idea to run a good additive pack diesel oil. I think it is a good idea to run a pusher pump for the fuel system. This is all my opinion: Use it at your own risk, abuse it, throw it away.
Read the red at the bottom of this page: http://www.safari4x4.com.au/80scool/tech/td_bearings.html That is good advice.
gb
I've no idea on the grade or quality of Ozzy or NZ spec oils and will not offer opinion.
I think it is a good idea to change to ACL. I think it is a good idea to run a good additive pack diesel oil. I think it is a good idea to run a pusher pump for the fuel system. This is all my opinion: Use it at your own risk, abuse it, throw it away.
Read the red at the bottom of this page: http://www.safari4x4.com.au/80scool/tech/td_bearings.html That is good advice.
gb
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #16
I guess it has been around for years, but it's new to me and maybe other folks who might be interested.
Has there been any discussion of repeated bearing failures in the 1HDT?
That was new to me.
I'm going to switch from Chevron Delo 400 to Amsoil since it seems to be the closest to JDM spec. The 90915-30002 two stage filter looks like a good investment too.
Initially I thought the oil issue should be in a separate thread from the bearings, but that was an error on my part: impossible to separate the two issues in discussion.
Has anyone nailed down the reason for this problem conclusively? Is it a problem with the bearing shells or a lack of oil pressure in certain situations or a combination of the two? Or is it that the bearings just aren't large enough for the load? Isn't this engine basically a turbo version of the 1HZ - was that engine designed with enough of a margin to allow the increases in compression and power, or did Toyota push the envelope a little too far?
Has anyone had a second set of bearings fail or start to fail?
Has anyone had a set of ACL bearings fail or start to fail?
I wonder if the ACL babbit bearings have more 'give' and therefore resist the pounding (& scuffing?) better.
I'll have to do some research on bearing metals I guess.
Has there been any discussion of repeated bearing failures in the 1HDT?
That was new to me.
I'm going to switch from Chevron Delo 400 to Amsoil since it seems to be the closest to JDM spec. The 90915-30002 two stage filter looks like a good investment too.
Initially I thought the oil issue should be in a separate thread from the bearings, but that was an error on my part: impossible to separate the two issues in discussion.
Has anyone nailed down the reason for this problem conclusively? Is it a problem with the bearing shells or a lack of oil pressure in certain situations or a combination of the two? Or is it that the bearings just aren't large enough for the load? Isn't this engine basically a turbo version of the 1HZ - was that engine designed with enough of a margin to allow the increases in compression and power, or did Toyota push the envelope a little too far?
Has anyone had a second set of bearings fail or start to fail?
Has anyone had a set of ACL bearings fail or start to fail?
I wonder if the ACL babbit bearings have more 'give' and therefore resist the pounding (& scuffing?) better.
I'll have to do some research on bearing metals I guess.
If you want to figure the load for each, then use the top end figures for healthy motors: 520psi for the 1HD-T and 600psi for the 1HZ (use the topish end of motor specs to get top end numbers). Run the numbers for load on the top of the piston (don't factor in boost on the 1HD-T, because if it is a low rpm, high demand, then the boost will not be a factor). BTW, the statement from the offroad site makes no sense, as you can not say it is high cylinder pressure under high boost, and then say it happens in low RPM high load situations.
15163-17010 is the oil gear number, for 1PZ/1HZ/1HD-T/1HD-FT from 1990 up to 1998.
I'm sure there are plenty of HZ's that have grunted there way around in very low RPM situations for years...at 600psi compression specs.
Consider in your thought process the detonation impact characteristic differences with the IDI HZ and DI HD-T/HD-FT motors.
Consider also that it appears "some" HZ's have shown this issue (smaller numbers, but still on the radar), with and without turbos.
Why are you considering going to a JDM spec oil when experience appears to be showing that JDM oils are not saving the day? (yes a good additive pack oil is wise)
gb
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #18
Good point. Mine trucks etc. Ens told me they’ve never had to rebuild a 1HZ.
I assume the Indirect Injection (IDI) engines have a more gradual ignition and thus less sudden load on the bearings? So Toyota has taken the IDI 1HZ and changed it into the Direct Injection 1HDT without changing the bearing sizes or compositions? Do we have specific information on bearing loadings in the two engines? As we’ve seen with the 2LTE/2LTII engine heads, Toyota does %$^@$ - up sometimes...
I haven’t found direct reference to any yet, but if you can point to some, I’d like to find out more on this. There was comment on one of these links that Toyota had two bearing suppliers and one of them was ‘bad’ and one was not...who knows?
The problem seems to be rare with 1HDTs in Japan from what I've read, so despite driving conditions being very different and mileages generally lower, the oils may be a factor. I can’t rule it out, so it seems prudent to try to get as close to the JDM spec oils as possible.
Thanks for your input - valuable information.
We had the bearings replaced on 3 80's here earlier this year, as a precaution. 2 sets were like new, 1 set was a small step away from disaster. See http://www.mudtoys.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=23&Itemid=9 and click on the picture.
That was at about 120k miles and I'm told it's typical of what goes wrong on these bearings.
Jon.
That was at about 120k miles and I'm told it's typical of what goes wrong on these bearings.
Jon.