Busted a pass side birf on Saturday in Moab. CDan was nice enough to spend time with me checking out the symptoms as we decided that it'd be okay to drive back home with shaft pulled and drive flanges pulled also. I was thinking either pinion or ring gear and Dan was thinking spider gear. To my surprise when I pulled the axles to be able to get the diff out, the pass side birf just pulled out and flopped over. The cage that holds the ball bearings in broke. Everything else believe it or not looks great inside the birf. Question: Is it okay to just replace the cage inside the birf?? If so anyone know where I can buy one?? Any advice appreciated. To have it rebuilt, I'm looking at about $175.
Carnage in Moab
- Thread starter Elijah
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Wow,
I'm surprised it wasn't making any noise. I'm glad to hear you made it back home.
Toyota does not service any of the inner pieces so I don't know where you would find them. They may exist in the aftermarket.
I have not heard much positive said about "rebuilts". I think I would look for a good used one or maybe a Long.
I'm surprised it wasn't making any noise. I'm glad to hear you made it back home.
Toyota does not service any of the inner pieces so I don't know where you would find them. They may exist in the aftermarket.
I have not heard much positive said about "rebuilts". I think I would look for a good used one or maybe a Long.
In hindsight, we could have isolated the birf if we had tried the locking trick I was talking about. I had a new birf in the back of my truck.......
I have broken a few birfs, and both rear axles. Most times you know a birf is gone when your turning radius is impacted and there is a lack of rotation at any point in the full rotation of the wheel.
Basicly yes.
Lock the center and both diffs. In this case we would have raised the front wheels off of the ground to see what would spin and what would not.
If one wheel spins and one doesn't then you can assume it's something out in the knuckle. (We had already established that the drive flanges were intact).
If both wheels spin or if both wheels lock logic dictates that the problem is in the diff.
- Thread starter
- #7
I did notice that while backing my turning radius was altered but moving forward it wasn't. Good observation Dan. Being the first time I had broken birf, I didn't know what symptoms other than the obvious to look for.
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- #8
I hope this doesn't come across as brown nosing but....it sure is cool when one of the 'top dogs' of the cruiser world will take an hour of HIS time and help you diagnose a problem and THEN ask around to make sure his assumption and advice aren't misleading. Thanks again Dan.
For this test, what if you don't have a front locker? Is there a way to diagnose since you can't lock the front?
just think of the body damage you could of had 
pleasure meeting you and the wife.
pleasure meeting you and the wife.
Man-a-fre had some Japanese production 80 series birfs for sale on their website. That might be an alternative to the Toyota OEM price.
I just got off the phone with Bobby Long (maker of Longfields). When I asked if he recommended 80 series Longfields for highway applications, he said that the Rockwell hardness is ~58 on Longfields versus ~68 on OEM. This softer metal withstands shock loads better on the trail. He estimated that a Longfield 80 series birfield would last approximately 30,000-40,000 miles, and thus he does not recommend it for a vehicle that will have numerous miles put on it in the future. Of course, if it's mostly a trail machine, the longs are probably your best choice.
I just got off the phone with Bobby Long (maker of Longfields). When I asked if he recommended 80 series Longfields for highway applications, he said that the Rockwell hardness is ~58 on Longfields versus ~68 on OEM. This softer metal withstands shock loads better on the trail. He estimated that a Longfield 80 series birfield would last approximately 30,000-40,000 miles, and thus he does not recommend it for a vehicle that will have numerous miles put on it in the future. Of course, if it's mostly a trail machine, the longs are probably your best choice.
Thats honesty for you.
Slee's had JDM Birfields. Put a pair of those into Jeremiah Easter's rig, with him, and they were pretty darn close to OEM, and still working well. I think he had to buy the newer drive plates, too, because the ones Slee has are the later ones with the longer splines.
The later drive flange is a 43421-60040.
I like the weakest link theory: if you know you are going to break it, just a get a bunch of cheap ones/used ones and be really good and fast at swapping out.
I carry a couple of extra birfs with me....used...$25 a piece. If one breaks, put a new one in and continue on, continuing on.
Same things with inners and drive shafts and whatever you might break alot of....
I carry a couple of extra birfs with me....used...$25 a piece. If one breaks, put a new one in and continue on, continuing on.
Same things with inners and drive shafts and whatever you might break alot of....
I went to longs with stock studs and drive flanges. The outside edge is my weak spot.
If you are unlocked, you can do the same test, just lock the center and leave one wheel on the ground, give the raised one a spin, and then switch.
So for enquiring minds out here with 160,000 miles and still clicking after the repack:
- what shape were yours in?
- what incident caused the failure?
- how is the vehicle setup - stock or modified?
Thanks, as I wonder now if the 93's got enough beans in the birfs for a Moab trip and this is important field data for all.
DougM
- what shape were yours in?
- what incident caused the failure?
- how is the vehicle setup - stock or modified?
Thanks, as I wonder now if the 93's got enough beans in the birfs for a Moab trip and this is important field data for all.
DougM
