Hotter than Hell in S Tex. - A/C Aux fan install ??!! (1 Viewer)
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I have a Toyota OEM electric fan from a '91 Toyota Tercel. Mounted to factory holes with home made brackets. I have seen 5-8F improvement at stop and go traffic.
Pictures taken with horn removed. There is enough room there to keep the horn at stock location.
Pictures taken with horn removed. There is enough room there to keep the horn at stock location.
Rich said:
Thanks for the info, so will have to com up with something else.
LandCruiserPhil said:
There it is, on at 180, off at 170.
that would be an easy way to pick up temp of the radiator, no drilling no taping, You could kind of tune it by moving it up and down in the rad helping the engine driven fan keep the coolant temp in check at low speeds, its range is too high to use on the condenser though. I wonder if the coolant temp increases sufficiently with ac operation so that it could catch that also?
medtro said:
mine is not wired either,
Mine is wired to a manual switch on the dash. There is no such thing as a "group buy" and it would actually draw unwanted attention from Mr T if I tried to get a bunch of them at once. It would send up a flag and they would assume that I was making a bulk purchase for export, they don't like that.
I imagine the price would deter most of you anyway. Current list is $297.14 and a board member would pay $222.86
There is no pre-existing wire in a North American vehicle so a suitable harness would need to be fabricated. At one time I had a pair of Bosch driving lights up front and I adapted that harnness to power the fan. It has a 20 amp fuse and relay to power it.
I imagine the price would deter most of you anyway. Current list is $297.14 and a board member would pay $222.86
There is no pre-existing wire in a North American vehicle so a suitable harness would need to be fabricated. At one time I had a pair of Bosch driving lights up front and I adapted that harnness to power the fan. It has a 20 amp fuse and relay to power it.
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Text and pcitures for AirLaird,
my e-mail messed up the format, if the poaragraphs breaks dont make sense its my fault.
airlaird said:
my e-mail messed up the format, if the poaragraphs breaks dont make sense its my fault.
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Mounted one on brother Rob's '97 today. Found a 14" at Auto Zone sold as a TorqFlow brand for 69.99, did a little research and it's a Derale #16514, http://www.derale.com/electricfans.shtml great price for that fan!
This is the biggest fan that will fit, it's a squeeze but only required bending one tab out of the way and bending the horn mount slightly to clear. Had to pull the right headlight, fan and clutch, the right side and left upper radiator bolts so it could be pulled out on the right side to get the zip holders through the condenser. We bought an extra pack of the zip holders and used six with the supplied foam pads on the radiator side and put 3M double stick foam tape on the fan to keep it from shifting, it's not going anywhere!
Wired it up with a 25 amp fused wire from the battery to a 30 amp relay mounted between the washer bottle and aircleaner duct on the fender well. The relay is turned on by power tapped from the A/C clutch, so the fan runs with the compressor.
The total cost was about $90, it made about a 10 degree difference in the idle vent temp sitting in the shop, we will see how it works in the real world.
The bent tab.
The bent horn bracket.
The relay.
Auto Zone box label.
This is the biggest fan that will fit, it's a squeeze but only required bending one tab out of the way and bending the horn mount slightly to clear. Had to pull the right headlight, fan and clutch, the right side and left upper radiator bolts so it could be pulled out on the right side to get the zip holders through the condenser. We bought an extra pack of the zip holders and used six with the supplied foam pads on the radiator side and put 3M double stick foam tape on the fan to keep it from shifting, it's not going anywhere!
Wired it up with a 25 amp fused wire from the battery to a 30 amp relay mounted between the washer bottle and aircleaner duct on the fender well. The relay is turned on by power tapped from the A/C clutch, so the fan runs with the compressor.
The total cost was about $90, it made about a 10 degree difference in the idle vent temp sitting in the shop, we will see how it works in the real world.
The bent tab.
The bent horn bracket.
The relay.
Auto Zone box label.
im very intrested in adding a fan also. does it affect the cooling system, since the fan kind of blocks some of the air flow when its not being used?
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The cooling system in good condition has the capacity to sit in traffic at 115F with the A/C on or climb Sunset point (6 degree 7 miles) at 65 MPH and 100F+ without overheating, so it has plenty of reserve at 75F. The fan will block some flow when it's not running and add flow when running, a design used in many cars, including foreign spec 80's. When the A/C is working it removes heat from the interior and dumps it in front of the radiator, adding greatly to the cooling load.
In hooking it to the compressor it helps the cooling system at the highest load times and improves A/C performance at low speeds. Here in Arizona we run the A/C most of the year, a lot of times including on the trail, so it covers most of our needs. One option that it doesn't cover in this mode is the emergency overheating, where you want the fan running but don't want the A/C on. The A/C comes in the winter to dry the defrost air and the fan is not needed/wanted in that mode. Looking into using a rear heater fan switch with it's on-off-on to be able to turn it off when not needed and have two modes.
Some of the ways to wire the fan;
Running when the ignition is on; Advantages, none. Disadvantages, it runs when not needed putting unnecessary load on the charging system and wear on the fan, slows warm-up in the winter.
Manual switch control; Advantages, driver can run it any time it's needed. Disadvantages, driver has to remember to use it and know/anticipate when it's needed.
Ignition on power, cooling system thermostat controlled; Advantages, runs when the cooling system needs it. Disadvantages, Isn't good at anticipating A/C loads, Doesn't take advantage of after shutoff cooling. This is basically how the fan clutch works, so on our trucks it's just doubling up on one strategy, not taking advantage of others.
Always on power, cooling system thermostat controlled; Advantages, runs when the cooling system needs it and continues after the rig is shut off to help with heat soak. Disadvantages, Isn't good at anticipating A/C loads. This is how most manufactures control the main fan on an electric fan only system.
A/C controlled; Advantages, anticipates A/C loads, somewhat driver controlled, when I am hot and the A/C is turned on, the truck is probably hot too. Great at lowering idle/slow speed A/C vent temps. Disadvantages, Doesn't take advantage of after shutoff cooling. It's not connected to the cooling system, so the truck could overheat and the fan never come on. This is how most manufactures control a secondary fan, either by tapping the compressor clutch or a high side pressure and/or temp switch.
All strategies have compromise, the A/C controlled works the best for us. The advantages for us is that it's easy to wire, no switches or underdash work, nice and simple. The disadvantage is some lack of control, but they are easy to overcome, to turn it off in the winter simply pull the fuse and the Bosch relay we used has two output connectors, so in case of emergency overheating just open the hood and move the power wire to the second output and it's always on.
Sorry for the looonnngg winded reply!
TOOLS- thanks for the reply-very informative 
flintknapper said:
we have been having difficulty keeping our house cool this summer and because of this thread I decided to tear into the condensor outside my house to see what it looks like.
we paid the AC guy a couple of years ago to clean the coils..... so I was very surprised to see all this crap built up
seems to me the AC guy pulled the top cover (w/ fan and motor) and cleaned the inside of the coils...... unfortunately all the dust dirt and pine straw gets sucked in from the outside of the unit and blown out the top, so he didnt do jack diddly.
at any rate, I got her all cleaned up and put back together...... waiting to see if the house cools down any
gonna go look at the LC after my wife gets home with it
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The relay we used is a Bosch #0332019150 five connector, normally open, $5.39. The fuse holder is a Buss Fuse heavy duty blade type #BP/HHG, $2.29. The extra mounting kit is a Derale #13001, $3.87.
After a little more research we are going to add a second relay, jumper the power and fan output between the two and tricker the second relay with a radiator thermostat switch. Then ether or both relays can turn on the fan, it will come on with the compressor and run anytime the radiator is over 200F including after the motor is off cool down.
After a little more research we are going to add a second relay, jumper the power and fan output between the two and tricker the second relay with a radiator thermostat switch. Then ether or both relays can turn on the fan, it will come on with the compressor and run anytime the radiator is over 200F including after the motor is off cool down.
Tools R Us said:
Perfect setup. Please send me a wiring diagram.
So I spent 2hrs going to two different autozones and although both said they had the 14" in stock, neither did. Needless to say I was thoroughly pissed off
I'm convinced however that for the performance and size of that fan, its the best deal out there. I'll continue to look.
After doing more research, I'm going to attempt to one up everyone
and move out the AT cooler and try and fit in a 9" or 10" pusher fan in between them. This way, I can cool both the AC condensor and the AT cooler when at idle. I plan to chart the water temp to make sure there are no ill effects due to blockage from adding two pusher fans in front of the condensor but in looking closer at the air pathways, there's a rather large gap at the bottom of the condensor where the radiator fan can suck air through so I believe this should not be an issue (see Raventai's 4th pic). I'm sure Toyota did this knowing the condensor will start to get plugged full of crap over the years as most folks who just drive will never clean the condensor over the life of a vehicle.
Will post pics and results as I make progress.
BTW - In a deep water crossing last year (yes, here in AZ), my flex-a-lite fan on my 4runner broke 2 blades when it hit the water. massive vibration :whoops: . I broke off the opposite 2 blades and it was vibration free but only pulling air with 4 blades left. I drove it home without issue (no over heating) and replaced the blade unit for $30). Not difficult to do but wouldn't want to do it again in the FZJ80 after this mod so I'm planning to use a cutoff swith in the cab for this purpose. I'll still use the AC clutch to kick on the fans but I plan to have an easy way to kill the fans when crossing water (if ever again...this is the desert don't ya know...no
here)
WET
I'm convinced however that for the performance and size of that fan, its the best deal out there. I'll continue to look.
After doing more research, I'm going to attempt to one up everyone
and move out the AT cooler and try and fit in a 9" or 10" pusher fan in between them. This way, I can cool both the AC condensor and the AT cooler when at idle. I plan to chart the water temp to make sure there are no ill effects due to blockage from adding two pusher fans in front of the condensor but in looking closer at the air pathways, there's a rather large gap at the bottom of the condensor where the radiator fan can suck air through so I believe this should not be an issue (see Raventai's 4th pic). I'm sure Toyota did this knowing the condensor will start to get plugged full of crap over the years as most folks who just drive will never clean the condensor over the life of a vehicle.Will post pics and results as I make progress.
BTW - In a deep water crossing last year (yes, here in AZ), my flex-a-lite fan on my 4runner broke 2 blades when it hit the water. massive vibration :whoops: . I broke off the opposite 2 blades and it was vibration free but only pulling air with 4 blades left. I drove it home without issue (no over heating) and replaced the blade unit for $30). Not difficult to do but wouldn't want to do it again in the FZJ80 after this mod so I'm planning to use a cutoff swith in the cab for this purpose. I'll still use the AC clutch to kick on the fans but I plan to have an easy way to kill the fans when crossing water (if ever again...this is the desert don't ya know...no
here)WET
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The Derale fan has a support ring around the tip of the blades, less likely to break. Still a cutoff switch is a good idea.
elmariachi said:Perfect setup. Please send me a wiring diagram.
Me too.
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Please send me a wiring diagram.
Not very good at drawing wiring diagrams, if I did one only I could make any sense of it!
Will shoot some better pictures of the wiring when mine is done next week.
