What kind of cruiser do you take on these trips Mark?
Overseas (non-US) Expedition wheelers.... the wild stuff!
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Mark W
Yep, I really don't really care that much I guess.
As the trips have got more challenging I've settled on an FJ40 that has continually evolved. I wrapping up the latest build over the next couple of days so that I can malke a couple of shake down jaunts before we head out next week.
Long list of stuff here:
1978 FJ40 with 350 Chevy, mild cam, Eldebrock dual plane intake and 650 CFM Edelbrock carb, HEI ignition (waterproofed) and gear drive for the cam. Basically stock and nothing exotic. SM465 (GM 4 speed w/granny low). Gear reduction box from an NP203 (2:1 low range). Orion T/C (4:1) low.
FF rear w/lockright and 5.29 gearing. Cable locker up front. Four wheel Toyota Disc brakes (late model 4runner calipers). Line locks on both the front and thr rear brakes.
OEM PTO winch on the front, Warn 8000 pound electric under the rear. Single battery up 'til now, but with the electric winch under the tail, I'll be adding another. Onboard air with 5 gallon tank. Taurus 2 speed electric engine cooling fan (I prefer an engine driven clutch fan, but for fitment I went with the electric). Dual alternators rated at 70 amps at idle and 100 max each.
I've got the drivetrain mounted fairly low, and dead level to retain ground clearance but keep the COG as low as possible. The rig sits in an SOA configuration with FJ55 rear springs under the front and FJ45 rear springs under the rear. With these springs and the off center perches I have a 104 inch wheelbase. I also run additional load carrying coilspring along with the leafs when loaded up for a long trip. if I put them in when the rig is empty they raise it by 2 inches. Ford Aerostar rear coils (4x4 extended wheel base units). I use these springs under the rear and a cut down set under the front. I've got very long shackles at very gentle angles (articulated shackles for the rear springs). The rig rides very soft, but firm and very controllable. My 14 inch travel rancho adjustable shocks are the limiting factor for suspension travel.
Steering is a Scout Saginaw conversion with custom, heavy duty linkages. Tires are 39.5x18 inch boggers.
The rig has a snorkle of course and I carry 40 gallons of gas in cans on the rear rack and another 10 in cans mounted on each side on the cowling. Currently it has the stock 16.5 gallon tank. I'll be putting a larger tank under the seats next year as well as building a 30 gallon (expected capacity) tank under the body. I had a roof rack on it for a while, but it is off again. I don't like putting much weight up top. I'm normally solo in the rig and I pack it FULL, even though we're travelling with only the requirements. No frills, no extras.
I've got an M416 that I haul sometimes with fuel and gear on longer runs and/or when I've got others along who don't have as much onboard fuel capacity or we have other need to support other rigs. I'll stash this along the trail sometimes and pick it up on the way out or on a subsequent run if we don't come back the same way. I've built a removable tow bar for use with the trailer. When the trailer comes off so does the tow bar so that I don't have to sacrifice ground clearnace with it when it's not needed.
CB radio with amp for 300 watt output. 2meter w/75 watt output. Gobook mil-spec laptop with GPS and mapping software. Couple of inverters.
Extra lights go on the rig when fall comes around and come off for the spring and summer. No sense in risking them on the trail when it doesn't get dark enough to need them.
This rig is definitely a performance rig that has seen additional work and mods with long distance backcountry use in mind, as opposed to an expedition rig which has received additional performance oriented mods. It is definitely not the rig I would use for a run down to the '48 from Alaska even if we were planning on running trails while there. It's not the rig I would take down to South America. I've got a pair of '80s I just picked up at auction which will eventually see that duty. This rig is for exploring the untraveled areas of Alaska that can be reached with a wheeled vehicle if you spend the time to work at it. Sometimes it is fairly short runs over trails that we know. Sometimes longer runs over trails that we know. Sometime long runs into new territory. Sometimes those turn out to be shorter than we might hope when a connection doesn't pan out, or relayed reports turn out to be incorrect.
Often times after the first trip or two over a new trail we can and do take much less capable rigs along. We've got a few that we refer to as "tag-alongs". You'd never choose them to explore a new trail or head out solo into the back country. But they are great in a group. Most of the time it is not that the trails/routes we are looking at and for are so tough that less radical rigs can't handle them. It's just that until you know what is there it doesn't make sense not to use the most capable rigs to find out the first time.
Mark...
Long list of stuff here:
1978 FJ40 with 350 Chevy, mild cam, Eldebrock dual plane intake and 650 CFM Edelbrock carb, HEI ignition (waterproofed) and gear drive for the cam. Basically stock and nothing exotic. SM465 (GM 4 speed w/granny low). Gear reduction box from an NP203 (2:1 low range). Orion T/C (4:1) low.
FF rear w/lockright and 5.29 gearing. Cable locker up front. Four wheel Toyota Disc brakes (late model 4runner calipers). Line locks on both the front and thr rear brakes.
OEM PTO winch on the front, Warn 8000 pound electric under the rear. Single battery up 'til now, but with the electric winch under the tail, I'll be adding another. Onboard air with 5 gallon tank. Taurus 2 speed electric engine cooling fan (I prefer an engine driven clutch fan, but for fitment I went with the electric). Dual alternators rated at 70 amps at idle and 100 max each.
I've got the drivetrain mounted fairly low, and dead level to retain ground clearance but keep the COG as low as possible. The rig sits in an SOA configuration with FJ55 rear springs under the front and FJ45 rear springs under the rear. With these springs and the off center perches I have a 104 inch wheelbase. I also run additional load carrying coilspring along with the leafs when loaded up for a long trip. if I put them in when the rig is empty they raise it by 2 inches. Ford Aerostar rear coils (4x4 extended wheel base units). I use these springs under the rear and a cut down set under the front. I've got very long shackles at very gentle angles (articulated shackles for the rear springs). The rig rides very soft, but firm and very controllable. My 14 inch travel rancho adjustable shocks are the limiting factor for suspension travel.
Steering is a Scout Saginaw conversion with custom, heavy duty linkages. Tires are 39.5x18 inch boggers.
The rig has a snorkle of course and I carry 40 gallons of gas in cans on the rear rack and another 10 in cans mounted on each side on the cowling. Currently it has the stock 16.5 gallon tank. I'll be putting a larger tank under the seats next year as well as building a 30 gallon (expected capacity) tank under the body. I had a roof rack on it for a while, but it is off again. I don't like putting much weight up top. I'm normally solo in the rig and I pack it FULL, even though we're travelling with only the requirements. No frills, no extras.
I've got an M416 that I haul sometimes with fuel and gear on longer runs and/or when I've got others along who don't have as much onboard fuel capacity or we have other need to support other rigs. I'll stash this along the trail sometimes and pick it up on the way out or on a subsequent run if we don't come back the same way. I've built a removable tow bar for use with the trailer. When the trailer comes off so does the tow bar so that I don't have to sacrifice ground clearnace with it when it's not needed.
CB radio with amp for 300 watt output. 2meter w/75 watt output. Gobook mil-spec laptop with GPS and mapping software. Couple of inverters.
Extra lights go on the rig when fall comes around and come off for the spring and summer. No sense in risking them on the trail when it doesn't get dark enough to need them.
This rig is definitely a performance rig that has seen additional work and mods with long distance backcountry use in mind, as opposed to an expedition rig which has received additional performance oriented mods. It is definitely not the rig I would use for a run down to the '48 from Alaska even if we were planning on running trails while there. It's not the rig I would take down to South America. I've got a pair of '80s I just picked up at auction which will eventually see that duty. This rig is for exploring the untraveled areas of Alaska that can be reached with a wheeled vehicle if you spend the time to work at it. Sometimes it is fairly short runs over trails that we know. Sometimes longer runs over trails that we know. Sometime long runs into new territory. Sometimes those turn out to be shorter than we might hope when a connection doesn't pan out, or relayed reports turn out to be incorrect.
Often times after the first trip or two over a new trail we can and do take much less capable rigs along. We've got a few that we refer to as "tag-alongs". You'd never choose them to explore a new trail or head out solo into the back country. But they are great in a group. Most of the time it is not that the trails/routes we are looking at and for are so tough that less radical rigs can't handle them. It's just that until you know what is there it doesn't make sense not to use the most capable rigs to find out the first time.
Mark...
Middle of the Simpson Desert. Heading East along the WAA Line.
In my mind, a true "expedition" involves long distances (thousand+, not just a couple hundred). It involves primarily road and reasonably traversed trails. It takes you to new places with new experiences, but not necessarily places completely without people or untouched by mans activities.
I don't do that much of that sort of travel. I have done a bit and will do so again. But overall it's not what I spend my time doing or planning for.
Most of what I do these days would more accurately be called scouting. Perhaps I should make that "Scouting". Long distance scouting shares a lot with hardcore expedition travel. But it's not the same thing. It shares a lot with high challenge weekend play time. But again, it's not the same thing.
Scouting is about going where other folks don't go and where there are no maps or relayed reports to depend on. Going where there are no other people and the trails are nothing more than the tracks that your or maybe half a dozen other guys have laid down over the years. When you're lucky it's a pair of tire tracks that disappear and reappear once in a while for miles and miles. When you're really lucky there are no tracks except the ones you're laying down as you go. Not too many places where you can play this game. I'd venture that there's basically nowhere in the '48 where you can. The distances are not as long as most true expeditions. But as mentioned in my thread about our upcoming Talkeetna Mountains exploration, a couple to several hundred miles from trail head to trail head is not uncommon
This takes a lot of the same type of gear and vehicle capabilities as hard core expedition travel. But generally you are approaching things a bit more spartanly in terms of your gear and comfort items. You are not out for as long as you are on a long expedition and you can sacrifice comfort a little. Rather than roof top tents, you pitch a tent if you're gonna stay static for long, and throw your bag under the rig if you're just grabbing some shut eye 'til morning. MREs and quick simple food warmed over a camp fire takes first place over stoves and grills and onboard refrigerators. This is largely because you have to travel lighter. You wouldn't head of for a weekend of rock crawling or mud bogging with a 7000+ pound wagon. When you're scouting new country you have to be prepared to run into the challenging stuff too. You have to be a bit more self sufficient (no resupply of even fuel or local foodstuffs and provisions). Tools and parts and ability to make something work somehow to get back to the road is IMPORTANT. Not that this is not important in expedition travel as well. It's just a little different.
Scouting trips share a lot with weekend glory hunting. Or they can. Often times the reason that the trail ends is because of the challenge it presents. Mud, rocks, water or? If you want to go further you have to be able to overcome the obstacles that have stopped everyone else. Or the general difficulty that dissuades everyone else from bothering. But a good scouting trip gets you a lot further away from the modern developed world and keeps you there a lot longer than most weekend runs.
While an expedition rig is usually built with long term road manners pretty high on the list of priorities, a Scouting rig tends to be a blend of the expedition rig and a play toy. At least at first glance. Larger tires, more power, things like that set it apart from most expedition rigs. But higher fuel capacity and an emphasis on dependability and durability (and often simplicity) set it apart from most weekend warriors. And while it may be built with the kinds of capabilities that rival a lot of trailer queens, it has to be up to running a couple hundred miles or more to reach the trailhead.
Some "expeditions" have a lot of "scouting" built into their agenda. Some have none at all (think back to the Tubby tales that ran as a multi-part piece in the Trails recently.
There's more to it than this, but I'm tired of pontificating for the moment.
Mark...
Very well put Mark.
I was trying to think of a word to describe that type of wheeling myself. I think "scouting" covers it pretty well, exploration could also be used in its place, maybe. I love this type of 4wdriving. One of my favourite places to drive is the western beach of Fraser Island. It is away from the usual spots on the Island so it doesn't see much traffic at all. Some days when you are driving up that beach it is like you are the first person to ever drive up there. The creeks to ford and the rocks to cross keep the day trippers away but provide a challenge for those that want it a bit adventurous. If you do get bogged or you break down you have to be able to recover yourself before the tide comes in and makes you the latest artificial reef.
I class expeditions as being trips away from civilization that require self sufficiency. If you can keep your food in an ice box you're not on an expedition. Fridges/freezers, cryo-vacced meat, long-life food are all needed. The menu on the trip needs to be looked at closely. You can get away with lightweight camping food on shorter scouting trips but after three or four weeks a good diet is essential.
Fuel range is top priority too. 1000km+ range is usually the benchmark for expeditions. To get this sort of range you need bulk fuel carrying capacity and good fuel economy. Just the sort of thing turbo diesel cruisers are good at in standard form. A couple of 20L jerry cans can extend the range for those longer trips but nothing beats a purpose built long range tank for safety, ease of use, and a low centre of gravity.
Reliability, off-road ability and on-road comfort are all important too but I think these are important on all 4wds. Expeditions require their own special mods.
rusty_tlc
Dain Bramaged Member
In my mind, a true "expedition" involves long distances (thousand+, not just a couple hundred). It involves primarily road and reasonably traversed trails. It takes you to new places with new experiences, but not necessarily places completely without people or untouched by mans activities.
I don't do that much of that sort of travel. I have done a bit and will do so again. But overall it's not what I spend my time doing or planning for.
Most of what I do these days would more accurately be called scouting. Perhaps I should make that "Scouting". Long distance scouting shares a lot with hardcore expedition travel. But it's not the same thing. It shares a lot with high challenge weekend play time. But again, it's not the same thing.
Scouting is about going where other folks don't go and where there are no maps or relayed reports to depend on. Going where there are no other people and the trails are nothing more than the tracks that your or maybe half a dozen other guys have laid down over the years. When you're lucky it's a pair of tire tracks that disappear and reappear once in a while for miles and miles. When you're really lucky there are no tracks except the ones you're laying down as you go. Not too many places where you can play this game. I'd venture that there's basically nowhere in the '48 where you can. The distances are not as long as most true expeditions. But as mentioned in my thread about our upcoming Talkeetna Mountains exploration, a couple to several hundred miles from trail head to trail head is not uncommon
This takes a lot of the same type of gear and vehicle capabilities as hard core expedition travel. But generally you are approaching things a bit more spartanly in terms of your gear and comfort items. You are not out for as long as you are on a long expedition and you can sacrifice comfort a little. Rather than roof top tents, you pitch a tent if you're gonna stay static for long, and throw your bag under the rig if you're just grabbing some shut eye 'til morning. MREs and quick simple food warmed over a camp fire takes first place over stoves and grills and onboard refrigerators. This is largely because you have to travel lighter. You wouldn't head of for a weekend of rock crawling or mud bogging with a 7000+ pound wagon. When you're scouting new country you have to be prepared to run into the challenging stuff too. You have to be a bit more self sufficient (no resupply of even fuel or local foodstuffs and provisions). Tools and parts and ability to make something work somehow to get back to the road is IMPORTANT. Not that this is not important in expedition travel as well. It's just a little different.
Scouting trips share a lot with weekend glory hunting. Or they can. Often times the reason that the trail ends is because of the challenge it presents. Mud, rocks, water or? If you want to go further you have to be able to overcome the obstacles that have stopped everyone else. Or the general difficulty that dissuades everyone else from bothering. But a good scouting trip gets you a lot further away from the modern developed world and keeps you there a lot longer than most weekend runs.
While an expedition rig is usually built with long term road manners pretty high on the list of priorities, a Scouting rig tends to be a blend of the expedition rig and a play toy. At least at first glance. Larger tires, more power, things like that set it apart from most expedition rigs. But higher fuel capacity and an emphasis on dependability and durability (and often simplicity) set it apart from most weekend warriors. And while it may be built with the kinds of capabilities that rival a lot of trailer queens, it has to be up to running a couple hundred miles or more to reach the trailhead.
Some "expeditions" have a lot of "scouting" built into their agenda. Some have none at all (think back to the Tubby tales that ran as a multi-part piece in the Trails recently.
There's more to it than this, but I'm tired of pontificating for the moment.
Mark...
Scouting is a good term, it describes exactly the type of trips I would like to be doing more of.
Not everyone can take a year to travel to Africa. But many of us can take a week to explore a remote area closer to home.
I envy your big back yard.
Mark's FJ40
http://web.mac.com/desertdude/iWeb/ACT06.photos/ACT06-1_files/slideshow.html?slideIndex=25
http://web.mac.com/desertdude/iWeb/ACT06.photos/ACT06-4_files/slideshow.html?slideIndex=1
One small adventure Mark guided us on
http://web.mac.com/desertdude/iWeb/ACT06.photos/ACT06-4.html
http://web.mac.com/desertdude/iWeb/...log/A301034D-22FE-43D6-A39E-00BD2240948D.html
As we got into the trip we realized quickly this was Mark on a light adventure outing...
Still miss AK and the Crew...
::::
Mark W
Yep, I really don't really care that much I guess.
Mark W
Yep, I really don't really care that much I guess.
One small adventure Mark guided us on
http://web.mac.com/desertdude/iWeb/ACT06.photos/ACT06-4.html
http://web.mac.com/desertdude/iWeb/...log/A301034D-22FE-43D6-A39E-00BD2240948D.html
As we got into the trip we realized quickly this was Mark on a light adventure outing...
Still miss AK and the Crew...
::::
It was not until this trip that I finally realized that hoping to make the Alaska Cruiser Trek a Challenge oriented event is never going to happen. But it's okay. It works pretty good as a "Hardcore Sightseeing" outing.
Now that I have truly accepted this outlook it should actually be easier to make it all happen.
Mark...
Nice thread...also post it on the 80's cool site, there's a ton of Aussies there. You may want to also read through some of the Land Rover magazines, yeah I know there not LC's but there are some great write ups on just the type of stuff you're looking for.
I have to disagree with the statement that there aren't "expedition" type trips to be done in the US. True that we don't have the Simpson, but I can get you from the Mexico border to Canada without touching much pavement at all. Australia is a beast all on it's own, what other place has 90% of their population living within such a small distance from the coast thus leaving the center almost void. In Arizona alone I can put you on a trail, El Camino Del Diablo that's 200 miles long and really, really in the middle of nowhere. Do it in August in 118 degrees and you'll sure feel like you've been in the outback. Take a visit to the Kanab Plateau, the area North of the Grand Canyon, which is probably the size of some states in New England and is pretty much totally empty space.
Does an expedition have to avoid contact with people? towns? paved roads? Is an African expedition really intended to stick to remote places? The ones I've always read about were set up as a tour of new people, places, and cultures the remoteness is simply par for the course because it's the third world (and they didn't create an interstate system for the transport of goods and equipment during WWII as we did). If you built a town along some of the routes in Australia would travelers avoid a "pit stop"?
Keep in mind that the idea of a "road trip" by car was pretty much invented here in the states and because of the shear number of people wanting to take them we have managed to pave access to a lot of the more remote places in our country. Remember, we wouldn't have National Parks if the average American couldn't reach them by an everyday car. Of course this comes at a price to us explorers and adventurers.
I think that's why rock crawling is so popular here versus other areas, it give us the sense of accomplishment of getting through an obsticle that others can't, but does so in a short distance. I also think you'd find that the setup would be totally different than expedition type vehicles around the world. I don't think I've ever seen a photo of a vehicle in Africa lifted more than maybe 2". And most of them are running tall skinnies not 13" wide 37" tall meats. Most are fairly stock running gear mechanically that I've seen, all the effort seem in the living and emergency equipment. Items such as GPS, water filters, showers, cooking, spare this, spare that are the main focus.
Just my .02
I have to disagree with the statement that there aren't "expedition" type trips to be done in the US. True that we don't have the Simpson, but I can get you from the Mexico border to Canada without touching much pavement at all. Australia is a beast all on it's own, what other place has 90% of their population living within such a small distance from the coast thus leaving the center almost void. In Arizona alone I can put you on a trail, El Camino Del Diablo that's 200 miles long and really, really in the middle of nowhere. Do it in August in 118 degrees and you'll sure feel like you've been in the outback. Take a visit to the Kanab Plateau, the area North of the Grand Canyon, which is probably the size of some states in New England and is pretty much totally empty space.
Does an expedition have to avoid contact with people? towns? paved roads? Is an African expedition really intended to stick to remote places? The ones I've always read about were set up as a tour of new people, places, and cultures the remoteness is simply par for the course because it's the third world (and they didn't create an interstate system for the transport of goods and equipment during WWII as we did). If you built a town along some of the routes in Australia would travelers avoid a "pit stop"?
Keep in mind that the idea of a "road trip" by car was pretty much invented here in the states and because of the shear number of people wanting to take them we have managed to pave access to a lot of the more remote places in our country. Remember, we wouldn't have National Parks if the average American couldn't reach them by an everyday car. Of course this comes at a price to us explorers and adventurers.
I think that's why rock crawling is so popular here versus other areas, it give us the sense of accomplishment of getting through an obsticle that others can't, but does so in a short distance. I also think you'd find that the setup would be totally different than expedition type vehicles around the world. I don't think I've ever seen a photo of a vehicle in Africa lifted more than maybe 2". And most of them are running tall skinnies not 13" wide 37" tall meats. Most are fairly stock running gear mechanically that I've seen, all the effort seem in the living and emergency equipment. Items such as GPS, water filters, showers, cooking, spare this, spare that are the main focus.
Just my .02
Mark's FJ40
http://web.mac.com/desertdude/iWeb/ACT06.photos/ACT06-1_files/slideshow.html?slideIndex=25
http://web.mac.com/desertdude/iWeb/ACT06.photos/ACT06-4_files/slideshow.html?slideIndex=1
One small adventure Mark guided us on
http://web.mac.com/desertdude/iWeb/ACT06.photos/ACT06-4.html
http://web.mac.com/desertdude/iWeb/...log/A301034D-22FE-43D6-A39E-00BD2240948D.html
As we got into the trip we realized quickly this was Mark on a light adventure outing...
Still miss AK and the Crew...
::::
great pics and a great story. i would love to do that someday, as well as a montana ride
do tell with photos
thanks Mark scouted is a minute small corner of his world there in AK
::::
yup. the mine roads, forestry roads etc maze the north. Many places are far outside of services or help. Especially ones that are de-activated. But lots to explore in those regions.
Good cut proof tires, spares and more are needed for going way back in there.
And then there is winter travel on the ice roads and long connectors. Sure trucks roam on them, but if you break down or are not prepared you most likely will perish before help arrives.
I'll play. For those of you who can read a little bit of French, here's a great web site I already wrote about in another thread, especially the one about these guys' HZJ 78.
http://www.chateaudebrou.com/humanitaire/materiel.htm
And in action... in Mongolia
!
http://www.chateaudebrou.com/humanitaire/materiel.htm
And in action... in Mongolia
!
I figured I'd post some websites I have gathered...
http://www.sa4x4.co.za/
http://www.africaonwheels.nl/index.htm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/norfolk/features/alaska/index.shtml
http://www.africaoverland.org/index.htm
http://eoe.org.uk/
http://www.go-overland.com/
http://www.oasisoverland.co.uk/vehicles/southamerica.html
http://www.overlandmissions.com/
http://www.sa4x4.co.za/
http://www.africaonwheels.nl/index.htm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/norfolk/features/alaska/index.shtml
http://www.africaoverland.org/index.htm
http://eoe.org.uk/
http://www.go-overland.com/
http://www.oasisoverland.co.uk/vehicles/southamerica.html
http://www.overlandmissions.com/
Looking at maps I can see Canada having some vast uninhabited areas but at least its got ample water.
If you have water and a vehicle to shelter in,you would last a couple weeks at least maybe a bit longer if you eat the seats
Just how far north can a rubber tyred vehicle go in Canada in the summer?
Do you guys have EPIRBs?
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Yeah but the bugs will eat you alive. I have driven to Wrigley, Northwest Territories on normal gravel roads. Don't know if you can easily get farther north than that. There are winter roads that go all the way to the Arctic Ocean. Once everything freezes up more roads open up. Lot of bogs and water to navigate otherwise.
Actually, I just looked on the map again. Looks like you can get to Inuvik, NT if you take a road that starts out in the Yukon Territory.
I was just back up in Inuvik this past March filming. You can read about and see a couple of podcasts
http://desertdudefilms.com/
Summer = major water - maximum Mosquitoes
Winter = Major ice roads - below zero temps - Zero bugs
http://desertdudefilms.com/
Summer = major water - maximum Mosquitoes
Winter = Major ice roads - below zero temps - Zero bugs
Later in the summer you can have fewer misquitoes but more black flies, which are like white socks.
- Thread starter
- #40
so basically, everybody is protesting about how tough the US and Canada are, but yet we aren't hearing too much from the rest of the world...?
maybe a case of the strong and silent? or is it that they really are all at Starbucks out there too and want to maintain the illusion...?
c'mon guys, let's hear from exotic places! (with palm trees and stuff...)
maybe a case of the strong and silent? or is it that they really are all at Starbucks out there too and want to maintain the illusion...?
c'mon guys, let's hear from exotic places! (with palm trees and stuff...)
