Regarding mobile 2-way communication

[msahr]

With all the latest interest in getting everybody "online" with CBs (and HAM ) radios, I wanted mention / link / etc info on 2-way radio setups. In all my studies of HAM radio antennas etc, and in discussing radio performance with a few CSC'rs, seems there's a lot of misinformation out there.

Antenna mount location: Since the vehicle acts as a part of the antenna, the closest to the center of the vehicle the better the overall signal. Think of a circle or bubble around your vehicle with the antenna in the middle. Move the antenna, and the bubble moves too. Move the the antenna to the rear, and the bubble will be more prevalent to the front, and vice versa.

Like this:

Oh... don't "ground" your antenna. That little plastic washer thingie that came with your antenna or mount is important. Magnetic base antennas aren't "grounded" either.

The feed cable (coax cable from the radio to the antenna) can be any length. Cut and add a new connector is you want.

The antenna radiates the signal from the base to the tip. If only a few inches of the antenna stick up above the roof, almost all of the signal will be reflected off the body of the vehicle. Of course this changes with a soft-top vehicle...

This is one of the best articles I've seen on mobile antennas:

Mobile Antennas

Antenna tuning: I know most of us run the plain old fiberglass whip antennas with the plastic top (me included) but for best performance the antenna should be tuned. You need a SWR meter which is connected inline between the radio and the antenna. Hit the transmit switch and check the meter. Then tune the antenna as close to 1:1 as possible for the channel you mainly use (the SWR will change on each channel, each channel is a frequency...) Tune the antenna by moving the tunable tip at the end.

Tunable antennas on Amazon:

Antennas

SWR meters are inexpensive. I have one I'd be willing to lend.

There was a discussion recently about linear amps. Use at your own risk, I think if you're using a amp you're probably overcompensating for bad radio / antenna mount or performance. Also they're illegal... You want range? Go to the dark side:

Hope this helps.

 

[murf]

Thanks Mark. My front bumper mount doesnt perform for distance and Im looking to move the unit and also to a taller antenna. I believe my truck is blocking alot of my signal. I did a test with a roof mounted rubber ducky and reached out much further.

I also have a metal washer under my current antenna, if I "de-ground" the antenna and mount a plastic washer, what performace gain do you suspect i will acheive?

 

[Tools R Us]

Firestik has a great tech page: http://www.firestik.com/Tech_Docs.htm They are local and are very helpful.

 

[msahr]

Yup lots of info there too. Thanks for the linkie thing.

 

[azshtr]

With all the latest interest in getting everybody "online" with CBs (and HAM ) radios, I wanted mention / link / etc info on 2-way radio setups. In all my studies of HAM radio antennas etc, and in discussing radio performance with a few CSC'rs, seems there's a lot of misinformation out there.

Antenna mount location: Since the vehicle acts as a part of the antenna, the closest to the center of the vehicle the better the overall signal. Think of a circle or bubble around your vehicle with the antenna in the middle. Move the antenna, and the bubble moves too. Move the the antenna to the rear, and the bubble will be more prevalent to the front, and vice versa.

Like this:

Oh... don't "ground" your antenna. That little plastic washer thingie that came with your antenna or mount is important. Magnetic base antennas aren't "grounded" either.

The feed cable (coax cable from the radio to the antenna) can be any length. Cut and add a new connector is you want.

The antenna radiates the signal from the base to the tip. If only a few inches of the antenna stick up above the roof, almost all of the signal will be reflected off the body of the vehicle. Of course this changes with a soft-top vehicle...

This is one of the best articles I've seen on mobile antennas:

Mobile Antennas

Antenna tuning: I know most of us run the plain old fiberglass whip antennas with the plastic top (me included) but for best performance the antenna should be tuned. You need a SWR meter which is connected inline between the radio and the antenna. Hit the transmit switch and check the meter. Then tune the antenna as close to 1:1 as possible for the channel you mainly use (the SWR will change on each channel, each channel is a frequency...) Tune the antenna by moving the tunable tip at the end.

Tunable antennas on Amazon:

Antennas

SWR meters are inexpensive. I have one I'd be willing to lend.

There was a discussion recently about linear amps. Use at your own risk, I think if you're using a amp you're probably overcompensating for bad radio / antenna mount or performance. Also they're illegal... You want range? Go to the dark side:

Hope this helps.

Don't underestimate his last comment about range... CB's are for trail talk... HAM radios are for serious communications. CB = 1 mile maybe, OK I'll give it 2 miles... HAM is good for up to 50 miles radio to radio, and state wide with the repeaters, plus you can make a phone call on the repeaters. They are easy to learn, pass the test, and get up and running with what I think is a needed trail tool... communications!

 

[Cee Fish]

...HAM radios are for serious communications. CB = 1 mile maybe, OK I'll give it 2 miles... HAM is good for up to 50 miles radio to radio, and state wide with the repeaters, plus you can make a phone call on the repeaters. They are easy to learn, pass the test, and get up and running with what I think is a needed trail tool... communications!

I was on the rim over the weekend and was able to hit the Mt Ord repeater from FR300 and talk to a buddy on the 101 and Indian Bend, on his way home from Scottsdale Gun Club.

 

[Tools R Us]

Don't underestimate his last comment about range... CB's are for trail talk... HAM radios are for serious communications. CB = 1 mile maybe, OK I'll give it 2 miles... HAM is good for up to 50 miles radio to radio, and state wide with the repeaters, plus you can make a phone call on the repeaters. They are easy to learn, pass the test, and get up and running with what I think is a needed trail tool... communications!

It depends on your "need". Most of the people whom I choose to chat with on the trail have CB's, so having a ham wouldn't be very effective? CB is designed for short range, exactly what trail/caravan use is, works well for that application. Most CSC run chatter is not exactly what would be referred to as "serious communications"!

 

[clarkrw3]

It depends on your "need". Most of the people whom I choose to chat with on the trail have CB's, so having a ham wouldn't be very effective? CB is designed for short range, exactly what trail/caravan use is, works well for that application. Most CSC run chatter is not exactly what would be referred to as "serious communications"!

Msahr got your pm just been really busy trying to button up some stuff before vacation and haven't had time to get back to you.


This above quote has always been the response from our club. I suspect it always will be the response. While I think it would be wonderful for CSC to head the way of the 2m the way many/most 4x4 clubs have gone, the charge would have to be lead from the top and that just isn't going to happen. I can think of a TON of reasons it would be great for our clubs communication on the trail, as well as on trail meet ups etc maybe in the end we are just too old school to make the transition

 

[msahr]

There's probably room for both. Trail chat when you can see the other person: Great. No problem. "Hey what happened to the guys in back gee hope they didn't take that wrong turn the zombies live at the end of that canyon..." then it becomes an issue. EVERY time I've been on a trip with a more than just a few rigs it's this way. There's no discussion of trail etiquette, hardly anyone waits for the guy behind them to make sure they DON'T take the trail to zombie canyon, groups get split up... and lo and behold, the CBs can't reach the other side of the canyon.

Really the thing that I don't get... Why all the pushback when it comes to Ham? Cost? mobile ham rigs can be picked up for under $100. Handhelds, even less. Ham radio junkies upgrade all the time. You certainly don't need a 3-band mobile rig that has GPS and Internet, so a used radio would work. Complexity? Well yeah it's got more than 2 little knobs and a PTT switch. But y'all use them fancy computer thangs, right? Legality? Yes you need a license. And that costs some money and time.

clarkw3, no worries. I suspected as much.

http://www.4x4ham.com/

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Msahr got your pm just been really busy trying to button up some stuff before vacation and haven't had time to get back to you.


This above quote has always been the response from our club. I suspect it always will be the response. While I think it would be wonderful for CSC to head the way of the 2m the way many/most 4x4 clubs have gone, the charge would have to be lead from the top and that just isn't going to happen. I can think of a TON of reasons it would be great for our clubs communication on the trail, as well as on trail meet ups etc maybe in the end we are just too old school to make the transition

There's probably room for both. Trail chat when you can see the other person: Great. No problem. "Hey what happened to the guys in back gee hope they didn't take that wrong turn the zombies live at the end of that canyon..." then it becomes an issue. EVERY time I've been on a trip with a more than just a few rigs it's this way. There's no discussion of trail etiquette, hardly anyone waits for the guy behind them to make sure they DON'T take the trail to zombie canyon, groups get split up... and lo and behold, the CBs can't reach the other side of the canyon.

Dont give up hope
I support the guys with ham radios and glad to see more guys stepping up. Ham radio adds a level of safety and communication you cannot get with a CB or when you are out of cell range. I hope it never happen but in the event of emergency I hope a guy with a ham radio is near by, it could save someone life.

 

[msahr]

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

One of my gripes with ham is the size and cost of the antennas. Are there antennas available to suit the 4wheeler. I dont want to worry about tearing a costly antenna off all the time. I look for examples of install it and forget about from you experts.

 

[murf]

My dad ran a mobil ham unit in his truck back in the 70's. We could hit the south mountian repeater from the edge of the mogollon rim and phone patch to our home phone in town.


Concerning the ham license, what is involved? Is it an online test or must you go to the secret ham radio testing center?

 

[msahr]

One of my gripes with ham is the size and cost of the antennas. Are there antennas available to suit the 4wheeler. I dont want to worry about tearing a costly antenna off all the time. I look for examples of install it and forget about from you experts.

Yup. You can get a whip just like a CB.

 

[msahr]

Concerning the ham license, what is involved? Is it an online test or must you go to the secret ham radio testing center?

Yes and you need the handshake, too.

Online practice test

Ham radio exam lookup

 

[murf]

Great does this mean I also have to get rid of all my music cassette tapes?

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Yup. You can get a whip just like a CB.

Examples

 

[clarkrw3]

One of my gripes with ham is the size and cost of the antennas. Are there antennas available to suit the 4wheeler. I dont want to worry about tearing a costly antenna off all the time. I look for examples of install it and forget about from you experts.

Here is a picture of my mount. You can mount any antenna on it, the one I run which I didn't have at the office is an 18" wip style that would have next to zero chance of breakage on the trail. You can get a three foot wire one but way over kill for trail use. As far as antennas are concerned think old school car phone antennas verses cb etc. The huge ones you see are for hobbyists who are talking around the world.
Here is the antenna I use....nether expensive or breakable https://www.hamcity.com/store/pc/SBB-1-p246.htm


Here is a quick read that might be helpful and yes I know it's from "those" people over at expo

http://www.expeditionportal.com/expedition-gear/accessories/1470-practical-ham.html

 

[Jim S.]

My antenna is 18" long and is secured with a magnetic mount. Examples are Wilson, Hustler and
Diamond. Antenna is less than $50.00, mag mount extra.

 

[Cee Fish]

Here is the magnetic mount I use on the FJ. Works good for me, read my earlier post.

20" tall, magnetic mount and the antenna screws off easily to park in the garage...less than $50.



http://www.diamondantenna.net/mr77.html