Homebrew rear uppers done. (1 Viewer)

[MaddBaggins]

After breaking my previous set https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/366365-broken-upper-adjustable-arm.html I have made the replacements.

1-1/2 x .250 DOM tube with 3/4 chromo/kevlar heim jounts. I sacrificed one of the stock uppers for the eye on each end and I used stock rubber bushings in that end.
Beefy.

I think I'll hack one end off the lower arms (2 x .250 wall) and put a larger heim in them as well.

replacement panhards coming soon.

 

[OGBeno]

Been waiting for this thread Alvin!

 

[Nay]

Nice - that is an excellent solution. Great work.

Keep us posted on how the heims hold up in terms of staying quiet. You are basically building MAF 4+ arms with length adjustability in a heim rather than a fixed uniball joint in an eye mount.

One question: did you find metric heims (eye) or are you just drilling out the mount holes to fit a larger standard bolt?

 

[MaddBaggins]

Nice - that is an excellent solution. Great work.

Keep us posted on how the heims hold up in terms of staying quiet. You are basically building MAF 4+ arms with length adjustability in a heim rather than a fixed uniball joint in an eye mount.

One question: did you find metric heims (eye) or are you just drilling out the mount holes to fit a larger standard bolt?

They are 3/4 heims and the stock bolts, which are a hair under 3/4. I did some comparisons and the stock bolts have some play in the stock bushings, so I don't believe the play will be an issue. I made spacers out of 1" tube to make up the extra space in the mount and tightened it up real good. If I notice any issue's I will pick up some 3/4 grade 8 bolts and nuts and replace the stock bolts.

 

[-Spike-]

I guess you won't be bending those!

I wonder if a person could use a threaded union in the shaft for adjustability, with no lock nut for twistability, grease it and encase it in a boot for longevity. The potential for failure has me biased against using heims, plus the fact that they're still limited at some point. I don't know what that point is, or if the 80 could exceed it, but I know it couldn't exceed the twist of a threaded joint. I've never looked into acme threads so I don't know how available something like that would be, nor boots appropriately sized for this application.

 

[Ihasfip]

Thats pretty much exactly what I want to build...how much do you think you spent?

D

 

[Nay]

I guess you won't be bending those!

I wonder if a person could use a threaded union in the shaft for adjustability, with no lock nut for twistability, grease it and encase it in a boot for longevity. The potential for failure has me biased against using heims, plus the fact that they're still limited at some point. I don't know what that point is, or if the 80 could exceed it, but I know it couldn't exceed the twist of a threaded joint. I've never looked into acme threads so I don't know how available something like that would be, nor boots appropriately sized for this application.

A threaded application for twist has pretty much proven to loosen and clunk quickly unless something has changed in the years since I have seen it attempted.

You won't come close to exceeding the available movement of heims with high misalignment spacers on an 80 - they can go something like 35 degrees.

I wouldn't worry about heims from a "potential for failure" perspective as a 3/4" heim has a shockingly high load rating. The question really is whether they end up getting squeaky for a daily driver because they aren't sealed and don't have a lubrication mechanism.

This is why johnny joints exist (enclosed and greasable) and have become a standard in many applications, except of course in our application because we are too smart for this kind of common sense solution and would rather deal with rubber bushings that cost $45 a piece forever.

MAF 4+ has eye mounted uniball joint arms - I have run their panhards for 3 years with zero issues and zero noise. For a control arm, I think this is the best of both worlds, but it is not the best of cost vs. what MB just did as a homebrew solution.

 

[-Spike-]

A threaded application for twist has pretty much proven to loosen and clunk quickly unless something has changed in the years since I have seen it attempted.

You think that's likely to happen with acme threads too?

The failure I'm worried about with heims is more the squeak/needs lubrication which isn't available/eventually needs to be replaced kind of failure. I like the idea of no maintenance parts. I question any tight-tolerance fitting to work as well as rubber for long-term endurance, but only because I've been told to.

 

[Nay]

You think that's likely to happen with acme threads too?

The failure I'm worried about with heims is more the squeak/needs lubrication which isn't available/eventually needs to be replaced kind of failure. I like the idea of no maintenance parts. I question any tight-tolerance fitting to work as well as rubber for long-term endurance, but only because I've been told to.

Yes, specifically with acme threads, although it's been 8 years or so since I have directly seen it tried.

Your heim concern is valid. However, rubber is not as good as we believe here - it allows a lot of deflection and that means slop in daily driving. It degrades slowly and it can be hard to tell how bad your rig feels until you realize at some point that you are driving a total pig and it's your bushings.

Heims have improved tremendously in terms of teflon bonding technology for the inner race to bearing functionality. I wouldn't shy away from them these days, but again I really like the MAF 4+ application and at least in panhards am shocked at the total lack of any downside over a three year period.

I'd buy their control arms without hesitation - the LCA's with 3/8" wall DOM were on sale a few months back for $275 for a set with an eye mounted spherical bearing on one end and rubber on the other. You'd have a hard time building for that price, but it may have been a closeout to move to a different design....

 

[akarilo]

Nice work, but...

I made a similar set years ago for my 4runner and they were noisy as hell. Not so much squeaky but a rattle/slack kind of sound. The heims you used may be better quality than the ones I used though. I ended up building a second set with rubber bushings and was much happier. Give some feedback on the results.

 

[Nay]

Nice work, but...

I made a similar set years ago for my 4runner and they were noisy as hell. Not so much squeaky but a rattle/slack kind of sound. The heims you used may be better quality than the ones I used though. I ended up building a second set with rubber bushings and was much happier. Give some feedback on the results.

If you go back 10 years to the real beginnings of heims for use in 4x4 applications, there were significant problems in the bonding of the teflon lining to the race.

The net effect was the joint would spit out the teflon lining under load use, effectively ruining it. Bonding technology improved tremendously and quickly and higher end heims have come a long way. Race to bearing tolerance (you don't want "space") and telfon bonding technology are the difference between a high quality and high load bearing joint and an application that will fail on you quickly.

I'll be curious to see how it holds - like I said, there is a reason johnny joints are such a common standard for spherical joint offroad applications, and it is not because they are easier to fit....

 

[MaddBaggins]

I've been driving around on these for a week now. I don't hear any squeaks, there's no slop and it's amazing what a new set of bushing will do for the ride quality.

 

[MaddBaggins]

A month in and no noise, no slop. Ran it up a ramp and checked flex.
Rig moves smoothly and feel more solid, especially with the new panhards. I'm glad I ditched the poly bushings. Never again on those.

Doing some offroad tomorrow. I'll see how it handles then.

 

[Nay]

A month in and no noise, no slop. Ran it up a ramp and checked flex.
Rig moves smoothly and feel more solid, especially with the new panhards. I'm glad I ditched the poly bushings. Never again on those.

Doing some offroad tomorrow. I'll see how it handles then.

You should be good - as I said before, the teflon bonding technology has improved tremendously and that was the issue when heims got a bad rep.

I am on 3 years with uniball joints (a heim in the form of an actual eye bushing) on my MAF 4+ panhards and they have never made a sound.

People round here generally have no idea how much difference it makes to take the rubber/poly out of a lifted link suspension that is dealing with a lot of unsprung weight.