Wheel bearing job complete, but have questions.

[Brian894X4]

So, I just redid the front wheel bearings last night. They were repacked not that long ago by someone else, but the grease was dirty and different colors, so I assume they either got contaminated or weren't cleaned very well (or at all).

After cleaning the crap out of the bearings and hub I went with Mobil 1 grease after reading numerous posts on here about others using this stuff. My first question is that grease seems aweful thick and tacky and I'm a little worried that i might be too heavy, but I'm assuming that shouldn't be a problem with so many others running this stuff.

My second question is in regards to whether I used too much grease. I used a bearing packing tool and got it gooped up pretty good before installing. Now I'm reading that maybe I should have been more conservative on packing the bearing, especially how much I left on the outside of the bearing before installing. At first I gooped up the inside of the hub really good, especially the area between the bearings, but later removed some of that grease and I think that part is OK now with a reasonable amount.

In the end, I probably used one full can total (one of those small cans) of mobil 1 and that includes removing some grease later, so I'm guessing maybe close to 3/4 of a small can of grease. The reason I'm concerned is that my hubs got pretty hot to the touch on my test run last night, but it's hard to judge because I was bedding in new pads and rotors. Even after allowing the brakes to cool, they seemed a good bit hotter than the rear hubs. Any thoughts on this? Am I worried about nothing?

BTW, preload eventually ended up about 10-12 on both ends. The other thing that I'm sure is an eventual problem waiting to happen is that on one hub inner large bearing race could be turned by hand. All races were confirmed to be fully seated, but this one race could still turn. I'm guessing that's an indicator that a bearing must have siezed at one point in the truck's life and I may eventually need a new hub.

Right now everything is tight and no bearing movement at all. Any thoughts would be appreciated as I have a long 2 week road trip coming up in the next week.

 

[elhombre]

The hub is toast if the race is loose enough to move with your hand. I would also look at the under side of the spindle where the roller part of the bearing rides. My guess would be that there is a line worn into the hub so that the roller part of the bearing no longer fits snug on the spindle. Unless this fixed, you will just continue to spin the roller part of the bearing on the hub every time you hit a bump. Buy a new inner bearing and slide it on the spindle. Once it is on there, if you can rattle it back and forth, the spindle is no good. I personally just replaced my front spindles and staked one of the back ones.

Too much grease in the middle of the hub is a waste. After I packed my front bearings a few times, I started to see that dirty grease was always right inside or directly next to the races. The Mobil 1 grease makes it easy to see what grease is actually broken down because the unused stuff stays nice and red while the used grease turns dark brown-black.

 

[jasonmt]

This is out of the mini truck FSM, not sure if it is the 80 series one:

 

[Brian894X4]

Thanks for the info. I was reading some other very interesting posts while searching around here and it seems the concensus (with some debate) is that any "overpacking" issues relate to how much to put into the hub itself. I guess there's probably no way to really overpack the bearing itself.

I did originally pack the hub pretty good, but then removed a lot of grease later, so I'm pretty confident the hubs and bearings are packed properly, as indicated by the FSM diagram.

Preload was on the upper end, about 10-12lbs. I did the fishscale thing. After torquing and spinning several times, the first nut was hand tightened, with just a slight nudge more using my hand and the socket only, which gave me about 6-8lbs of preload. For some reason, the locking nut affected always affected preload, both sides, no matter what I did and that's how I ended up with about 10-12lbs of preload with the locking nut in place. Is this normal?

So that leaves the spinning race issue. It was locked solid in place and would not move up or down, but did spin by hand. Not super easy. Once I packed it with grease, I couldn't get it to move again. Kind of wish I didn't see that as I'll be thinking about it now on my trip. No time to source a new hub and get it all fixed in the next couple of days. But that will definately be something I do when I get back. So hopefully it will last a few thousand miles.

I have to wonder if spinning races are actually pretty common on the 80s. Seems that I've read about a few on here. If I hadn't test fit the bearing only see to the race move, I might have never known, so I'm guessing a lot of people might not know about this problem. My rig only has 110K miles, and bearings were repacked several times before I got the rig at 85K miles according to service records. But maybe one went just a little too long.

Right now it runs and drives rock solid with about 100 miles on it so far. The front hubs run slightly hotter than the rear, which I'm guessing is normal.

Sorry for all the questions, this is my first 80 bearing repack.

 

[Tools R Us]

... So that leaves the spinning race issue. It was locked solid in place and would not move up or down, but did spin by hand. Not super easy. ...

I wouldn't worry about it for the trip, long term the hub will need to be replaced. Most times loose races is from the bearing running loose, they always should have preload. For an "I need to have it working now fix" I have had great luck with gluing the race in with epoxy (like JBweld) or loctite. If well cleaned and applied so there is good coverage race to hub, I have seen it go a couple of maintenance cycles.

...Right now it runs and drives rock solid with about 100 miles on it so far. The front hubs run slightly hotter than the rear, which I'm guessing is normal.

Sorry for all the questions, this is my first 80 bearing repack.

The front brakes do more work, so the front hubs run a little warmer. When freshly packed bearings run hot, until the excess grease is pushed away from the rollers.

 

[IdahoDoug]

Agree with Kevin. Don't sweat it for this trip, but some repair like Kevin's will need to be done as wear will generate slack and the race will begin moving again after a few thousand miles. This will cause more wear behind the race, and allow more spinning until the race has enough wiggle room to start hammering the bearings and eventually destroying them. Could take a looooong time for this to happen and having the bearing nut tighter under this condition is better than having it loose.

DougM

 

[Brian894X4]

Thanks much for the info!

 

[cruiserdan]

I would not take the vehicle on a long trip with that hub. My opinion, I would replace it.

I would be spending the entire time wondering about when it was going to let-go and what it would take with it.

 

[jasonmt]

I would try some Loctite 680 or 660 as at this point you really have nothing to lose and it is something that can be done prior to your trip.

 

[Brian894X4]

I really, really hate to tear into again in the short amount of time (outside of work) that I have left, but I may try.

I wonder how much a new set of hubs are...I could built them up and swap them out with new stuff pretty quick. That would be the quickest and easiest, but I'd imagine super big bucks for parts.

Edit: Yup, just checked on pricing..big bucks.

Just out of curiosity, do the brand new hubs come preloaded with bearing and races wheel studs or just hub only and nothing else. Just curious.

 

[cruiserdan]

New factory hubs come with wheel bearings and the races are already pressed. They also have wheel studs. I think they have the dowel pins but no drive flange studs.

 

[Brian894X4]

Hmmm, that is definately tempting, but probably not enough time to source. I would need it by wednesday at the latest. Leaving Thursday morning. Cdan, I know you don't do parts check over the board, but do you happen to remember if you have any hubs in stock and if they can ship 2nd day air just out of curiosity?

 

[cruiserdan]

I usually have one and I can send it as fast as your billfold can stand.

 

[Brian894X4]

Thanks much C-dan. I will think hard about it tonight and will give you a call first thing if that's the way I decide go.

 

[Brian894X4]

Well, I think I'm going to pull it all apart tonight and reinspect really well. The good news is that I'm getting good and quick and pulling the hub apart. The bad news is...I can't remember which side had the spinning race.

 

[Brian894X4]

Let me ask a quick question. Thinking about how things work in there. If the race is spinning, but is still locked in place and doesn't move in and out, what's the worse that can really happen in a few thousand miles of driving? It's not like the thing could come flying apart is it? The race is still seated really well and wasn't moving up or down. Just was able to turn by hand a little. Sort of like it was in the early stages of wearing a grove in the hub.

I'm sure the hub will have to be replaced eventually. Just wondering if I really need to worry about this right now or if I can put it off until I get back.

 

[IdahoDoug]

If you have the bearing nut properly tight, the race is held in place by the its wedge shape and the force of the clamping effect of the bearing nut. That handles the no moving "in and out" as you describe and is why I suggested tigher is better than loose. Fresh grease and slightly tight will work.

As to spinning, here's what can happen. When the race is properly seated, the wheel bearing rollers are rotating around its face. Each wheel bearing is essentially pinned between your outer race and the bearing's inner race and the two races are literally racing around opposite each other at the same speed while the bearing contacts them and all is well. If one race slows down (that's what essentially happens when your outer race starts to spin around) then the poor bearing has to choose which face to slide or skid against and which face it will keep up with. So, the bearing begins to get flat spots that get larger and larger until suddenly it locks and the bearing will destroy itself in short order.

Here's what I'd do if you're taking it apart anyhow and can't get a hub from Dan in time. There's a procedure called "staking" mentioned in post 2 by Elhombre. Simply put, you remove the loose race, then use a punch to roughen up the surface it's supposed to fit tightly against. When you "stake" the surface by hitting the punch with a hammer, you're pushing metal away from the surface, but it swells around the hit by an equal amount. Keep doing this and you'll find you have to pound the race back in because of all these high spots next to the punch blows. That's staking. It is a time-honored way of stopping spinning races until you can replace them. If you can find someone (usually an older guy) who's done it before then you're in. Perhaps a machinist or a local auto shop either has someone on staff or perhaps the shop at the base. Essentially, you just do a bunch of small hits all over the inner hub where the race fits and then it will be tight. I've done it a number of times on a variety of vehicles but never on the 80. No worries - an honorable bush repair that will hold up for a long time.

Epoxy and the like may also do it fine, but one thing I'd recommend is that you immediately reassemble before it cures so your bearing will hold it in the right orientation as it cures. The staking doesn't require any drama like that as it will need to be pounded into place as normal and will be aligned right.

Where are you headed?

DougM

 

[Brian894X4]

Where are you headed?

DougM

Good info, thanks! Heading out to Northeastern Oregon for about a week of abandoned mine/railroad hunting with some friends, then another week with family in the Central Oregon area.

I usually take a bunch of short trips, but this year it's all being combined into one long trip at the end of summer.