Getting Back into Cruisers - '85 FJ60 Build Thread

[MichiganFJ60]

Greetings all! My eyes ache from all the reading I've been doing here over the past couple weeks in an attempt to get back into the Cruiser scene. There's tons of great information here! Quite a bit different from the old Land Cruiser mailing list I was a part of during my college days.

A bit about me: I started with a stock '74 FJ40 back in '95 and became a total Cruiser nut. I was fortunate enough to meet and work for Butch Lewis in Napa Valley around that time. With his talent and expertise, we built up my 40 with a 4.3 V6, SM420, SOA, S/R, Saginaw P/S, custom front and rear bumpers, and a bunch of other goodies. Butch was a great guy, and he is dearly missed. I ended up selling the 40 in 2000 after moving to Michigan, and now have an '85 FJ60 that I'm eager to play with. I've been reading up on the several 5.3 swaps, and I'm almost ready to dive in.

Here's the old 40 (poser pics, I know, but there aren't too many rocks in MI):

The 60 was rust-free when I came out here, but she's starting to look like a Midwest truck - even though I only drove her two winters in the past 11 years. Bummer. My plan at this point is to get the truck in the garage and do what I can to stop and fix the rust. Once I get the funds together, I'll start to assemble parts for the 5.3 w/ 460le swap and an eventual spring over. We'll see what other bits materialize along the way. I don't anticipate progress being too quick because I'm also an avid sailor and have a couple boat restorations I'm working on.

Anyway, it's great to get back into it and to read through all of the great information you guys have accumulated here! Your projects are a major inspiration (not to mention that they make me a little green with envy!).

Cheers!

 

[MichiganFJ60]

Too rusty to rebuild?

I need some advice. I put the Cruiser on the lift and looked around to determine just how bad the rust situation is. I am disheartened, especially since this truck had zero rust when I bought in CA back in 2000. Sad.

I want to eventually re-power the 60 with a 5.3, and I'd like to do a SOA conversion and a few other bits.

Here are some pics. The body has some small bubbling and a couple holes in the rockers and the quarters, but otherwise it looks pretty decent - all things considered. The frame has surface rust and flaking wherever it isn't covered in oil (rather thankful for those oil and p/s leaks now. The frame seems to be the worst in the rear crossmember that the bumper attaches to. Additionally that channel sections in the rear frame that appear to reinforce the rear spring hanger are looking pretty rough.

What I'm interested in knowing from this crowd is whether I should proceed with this body and frame or if I should abandon the dream. Any input appreciated.

Some areas of rust on the underside of the body

Driver's side rear frame

Thanks!

 

[MichiganFJ60]

A few more pics

This is what most of the frame looks like:

A shot of the rear crossmember/support that attaches to the frame rails and the bumper. Major rust here.

A better shot of the driver's side frame

 

[kevinmrowland]

This one actually looks like it might be right on the edge of salvageable.
Can you take more/larger pics for us to get a better idea?

The frame looks pretty bad but it's hard to tell how far things have gone, give us a shot of the inside of the rear frame rails and take a cold chisel (or screwdriver) and a hammer and pound on the passenger side inner frame rail in front of the rear axle in between all the fuel lines. If that holds solid then you are probably ok.

The body is tougher to tell from these pics, I can see a bit of rot in the lower tailgate where there are a few layers of metal all on top of each other (like all the other problem spots in cruisers) but that is actually fairly easy to fix there (cut completely off and weld on a new plate). Take a screwdriver and poke at the inside front leading edge of the drivers and passenger front doors, poke around the top windshield corners and give us some photos that show the rear dog-leg portions of the quarter panel. those are the spots that are really going to determine how bad things are, or more importantly, how bad things are likely to become in the next few years.

Welcome back!

KR

Oh, and the rain gutter, check that for rust.

 

[MichiganFJ60]

Forging Ahead

Kevin,

Thanks for the reply. I banged around on the frame, and it seems to be solid. The rear support that ties in with the bumper is shot and will need to come out. As for the body, I have a hole in the driver's side rear quarter and the passenger side rocker. There are a couple areas of bubbling around the rear door dog legs you speak of, but they're not rotten through.

At any rate, I've decided to dive in and see what's in store. I'm too attached to this truck to give up on it. I'll be pulling the engine and trans/fer soon. Once that's out, I'm going to pull the body off and start cleaning up the frame. At that point I'll know for sure what I'm in for and how to proceed. I'm hoping it's salvageable. We'll see.

Everything in the engine compartment disconnected and ready to pull the engine. Just need to pull the trans/fer first. (No, I don't want to pull engine/trans/fer in one piece - not enough room). So far I'm having fun!

 

[shancerlelby]

Looks pretty good for anything of this vintage and alot better than most cruisers out there! Frame needs a good wire brushing and recoat. Pull those rivited inner channels out in the back as thats where rust loves to breed and create worse problems. Definatly far from scrap my friend. Just needs some love and attention. Dont forget to flush all the crude out of the inside of the frame, moist mud inside will do far more damage on the inside.

From the looks of the rust im guessing you stored it outdoors on gravel or dirt? Too much moisture and not enough ventilation anyways. Classic vehicle storage snafu. Get to work, this thing is prime for some love!!

 

[MichiganFJ60]

George,

Wow, you're good! I'm ashamed to admit that the cruiser has been parked in my gravel driveway for too long. I knew being outdoors wasn't good, but I never knew about the dirt/gravel bit.

Thanks for the encouragement. I still regret giving up my old fj40, so I know I'd regret it if I let this one waste away. With regard to painting the frame, ospho with something like POR or RustBullet seems to be the choice. Any recommendations?

Thanks again!

 

[MichiganFJ60]

Engine and Transmission Out

I'm a couple steps closer to being ready to pull the body off the chassis so I can begin the frame clean up and restoration. The transmission, transfer case, and engine came out without a hitch. Work and other responsibilities mean slow progress, but I'm trying to keep things moving with whatever I can squeeze in.

A few pics:

I'm pretty sure the rear main oil seal is leaking, so that's on the list of things to do. The clutch is suspect, too, so that'll be replaced. I want to stop as many leaks as possible in the engine, trans/fer. Is it worth pulling the t-case off and apart to replace gaskets and ensure that the plug between the transmission and transfer case is still good? Also, is there a good way to evaluate transmission and transfer case health without opening them up?

Engine on its way out. Not a lot of room to maneuver in my garage.

The bell housing has 3F on it. Is that typical for the 2F engine, or is there no connection? Notice the C-clamp a PO used to substitute for a broken bolt on the EGR. Nice.

Got to figure out where the PS leak is coming from. Is it possible to rebuild the PS box?

 

[OrygunCruiser]

The questions is how did you ever "Get out of Cruisers"???

 

[MichiganFJ60]

The questions is how did you ever "Get out of Cruisers"???

Yeah, I wish I'd titled this first post something else since this is turning into a sort of build thread - although I make no promises about that.

But to your question: My lifelong love of sailing displaced my enthusiasm for the smell of 90W in the morning and the kidney-jarring ride of a sturdy rig. Alas, I can't just let my Cruiser deteriorate before my eyes, thus, getting back into cruisers.

 

[OrygunCruiser]

Yeah, I wish I'd titled this first post something else since this is turning into a sort of build thread - although I make no promises about that.

But to your question: My lifelong love of sailing displaced my enthusiasm for the smell of 90W in the morning and the kidney-jarring ride of a sturdy rig. Alas, I can't just let my Cruiser deteriorate before my eyes, thus, getting back into cruisers.

Welcome back

 

[Griffin]

Looks like fun. I'd love to have a 60 in the garage to tinker with.

Good luck on the work, looking forward to learning/seeing how it comes out.

 

[kevinmrowland]

I banged around on the frame, and it seems to be solid.

Good, you are already ahead of the game.

The rear support that ties in with the bumper is shot and will need to come out.

Not a problem, they don't do much and a sturdy bumper will more than replace it.

As for the body, I have a hole in the driver's side rear quarter and the passenger side rocker. There are a couple areas of bubbling around the rear door dog legs you speak of, but they're not rotten through.

This sucks, those are the spots, it is/will be rusting through from the inside. If the spots are low enough cut off what you can, other than that get at them from the inside and squirt a bit of ATF in the seams to help slow it down.

At any rate, I've decided to dive in and see what's in store. I'm too attached to this truck to give up on it.

Perfect! Sounds like it will be fine to use and play with, lot of life left in her I'm sure.

With regard to painting the frame, ospho with something like POR or RustBullet seems to be the choice. Any recommendations?

I can't speak to the others, but I'm not really thrilled with POR personally.

Is it worth pulling the t-case off and apart to replace gaskets and ensure that the plug between the transmission and transfer case is still good? Also, is there a good way to evaluate transmission and transfer case health without opening them up?

I would take it apart for sure, you will want to check the bearings and the surface of the idler shaft first hand. The T-case is really not bad to work with at all, I kind of enjoy it, especially if you can set the whole thing up an a bench rather than HAVE to work on it down the road on your back in the gravel drive. Take a couple hours and make sure it's all good now. Parts like that wont rust out.

The bell housing has 3F on it. Is that typical for the 2F engine, or is there no connection?

All late model 2Fs have the 3F bell housing, it's supposed to be like that.

Got to figure out where the PS leak is coming from. Is it possible to rebuild the PS box?

Yup, you can do it yourself or pay the $140 and send it to West Texas OffRoad. (search for threads on the rebuild)

Yeah, I wish I'd titled this first post something else since this is turning into a sort of build thread - although I make no promises about that.

Let the build begin!


KR

 

[MichiganFJ60]

Let the build begin!


KR

Thanks for the great replies! I appreciate your input. And, yep, I guess this is looking a lot like the beginning of a rebuild - especially after today's progress.

I'd pulled all of the necessary parts and connections in preparation for removing the body and got all of the body mount bolts loose last week, so today I pulled the body. That sucker is surprisingly heavy. I used a combination of engine hoist to the seatbelt anchor bolts and lifting straps under the body at the firewall and at the gas tank. Also used a little lifting (for balance, really) at the core support.

My garage space is too tight for the frame and body, so I wheeled the frame out from under the body and into the yard. Now it's time to strip the frame and begin the clean up and paint prep. Sorry for the lousy night shot.

Things are moving right along. Made a trip down to Ohio this weekend to pick up a tailgate and rear axle, and to drop off my carb with Jim C. Ended up with a couple of other goodies to finish the desmog on the 2F. (I've decided against the 5.3 swap for now. I'm more interested in getting this cruiser back into shape and back on the road for some fun.)

Next item of business is to clean up the garage and organize/label parts!

 

[MichiganFJ60]

Oil Leak Question

I've been pulling parts off the engine in order to clean things up, track down oil leaks, and replace gaskets. I pulled the flywheel and bell housing and had some oil run out of what appears to be a hex plug (or something like that) on the drivers side of the engine just above the rear main oil seal. Anyone know what that is? Is it a plug of some sort? Perhaps it's just coincidence that oil seemed to be coming from that spot. I suppose it's possible that oil could have gotten trapped in the recess over the years; It seems I have had a pretty decent leak from the valve cover.

Here's a picture (it's to the left of the bell housing bolt):

Thanks!

A few more pics:

 

[MichiganFJ60]

Rear inner C-channel

Got to poking around the frame today and inspecting the inner rear C-channel reinforcement, and I'm wondering: how wavy is too wavy?

I know it'd be best to grind off the rivets and replace the inner channel, but...do I need to go that route? If not, how does one go about cleaning that area and treating it so it doesn't get worse? By the way, I will be cleaning this frame, treating the rust, and painting it, so perhaps that answers my question.

Pics:

 

[MichiganFJ60]

Anyone have some insight or experience with regard to the frame channel?

 

[kevinmrowland]

Hey David, you've already gone this far..............


The c channel is definitely not the worst that I've seen, not even that bad, but there is just no way to clean it once it starts to rust to that degree.
You will feel better if you take the old metal out and reinforce it.

As for your oil leak, it's been a really long time since I worked on the back side of a 2F but I'm pretty sure that is just a plug for a through hole required for machining the main oil distribution channel.
Take that plug out of there, clean everything up and put it back in with some teflon tape or sealant.


KR

 

[MichiganFJ60]

Hey David, you've already gone this far..............

You will feel better if you take the old metal out and reinforce it.


KR

Yeah, there's probably little point in leaving it there if I'm going to restore the frame.

Since the spring hangers are attached to the frame and channel with rivets, is it acceptable to replace the rivets with grade-8 bolts once the new channel is in place? That's the plan at this point.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Haggis]

Welcome back to cruisers. You certainly don't mess around! Looking good!