welding input and PTO gear together

[Living in the Past]

I heard a long time ago about welding the one piece tranfer case input and PTO gears together on the four speeds. Has any body done this? Will the two gears fit thru the opening for the PTO box on the side of the tranfer case welded together? You would have to have it installed on the transmission's tail shaft to weld it straight. Since the fine spline on the four speed seems to wear I think welding the two together would slow this way down being that the PTO gear is spline all the way through and the input gear is only half splined. This would put the wear on a much larger area.

John

 

[Poser]

You would not be able to fit both of them welded together in through the PTO opening...they are one at a time right now, and the drive gear needs to be into the seal in order to get the PTO gear into the case.

 

[65swb45]

Talking with David Dearborn last year at Katemcy, IIRC he said he had done this a couple of times. Obviously it is a one-time solution, as you will have to scrap the case when the imput gear wears out unless you are extremely deft with a grinder.

I suppose if you took the time to cut the gear portion of the PTO gear off of the splined hub portion, you might increase the chances of getting the imput gear out, but I don't know.

I had a guy in L.A. that made bearing broaches for big companies like Timken that could weld shafts and spline grind them down. He has now moved away.

Mark A.

 

[Living in the Past]

Steve is there any fix for the wear on the fine spline gear and shaft? How far off is it from fitting? Is possible to trim the PTO gear down enough on the back side to fit and make up the area with a spacer. The only four speed I have is in my 68 and I know the tail shaft is worn on it. I also have a H41 I got pretty cheap because the tail is worn on it too. That one I plan on installing in my FJ45 with a 4 speed Fairey overdrive using the input gear from a 3 speed overdrive. The Fairey doesn't ride on the same spot on the shaft so the wear won't be an issue. I have a couple of H42s with good shafts but it just seems most of the old 4 speed tail shafts are worn out. I was just wondering if there was a easy fix for this other changing the tail shaft and gear.

John

John

 

[Pin_Head]

Spline wear is pretty common. My experience is that the shaft wears more than the gear, as the gear is usually still a tight fit on the unworn part of the shaft. I wouldn't worry about it unless the wear is more than about .010 - .015, which would wear through the average thickness of the hardened surface. The cheapest solution is to find a good used tranny as used 4speeds remain abundant and cheap. Replacing the shaft is a major PITA.

 

[shelfboy1]

whats so hard about changing the tail shaft do it right and be done with it

 

[Pin_Head]

whats so hard about changing the tail shaft do it right and be done with it

Disassembling the 4sp and getting the bearings off the shafts is the problem. Ever try one? I have and I don't plan on doing it again.

 

[Living in the Past]

Disassembling the 4sp and getting the bearings off the shafts is the problem. Ever try one? I have and I don't plan on doing it again.

X2

I agree the 4 speed is nothing like the old 3 speed to rebuild. If I wasn't going to use the Fairey overdrive on the H41 I would change the tail shaft. But that's because it's a H41. Over the years I have picked up a couple of H42s cheap and only got them because of the good tail shaft. If there's a problem with a H42 I would just replace it before I would rebuild it. Years ago everybody wanted to change their 3 speed for a H42 4 speed and they were hard to find. Now it's the SM420 or SM465 if not a 5 speed. But now the 4 speeds are alot older so even though there's more around there's fewer that still have a good tail shaft. I was just thinking if I replace my 4 speed in my 68 with the worn shaft it would be nice to install it so the shaft didn't wear as easy.

John

 

[Nick the Carpenter]

I heard a long time ago about welding the one piece tranfer case input and PTO gears together on the four speeds. Has any body done this? Will the two gears fit thru the opening for the PTO box on the side of the tranfer case welded together? You would have to have it installed on the transmission's tail shaft to weld it straight. Since the fine spline on the four speed seems to wear I think welding the two together would slow this way down being that the PTO gear is spline all the way through and the input gear is only half splined. This would put the wear on a much larger area.

John

we have these two gears as a full billet here in oz, lots of spline and $350 :crybaby dollars will get you one. They do fit as one unit as i have one in mine.I think the spline in mine is about 100mm long,i hope this helps.

 

[Living in the Past]

we have these two gears as a full billet here in oz, lots of spline and $350 :crybaby dollars will get you one. They do fit as one unit as i have one in mine.I think the spline in mine is about 100mm long,i hope this helps.

Is this in the one piece transfer case or split case? If it's in the one piece case at $350 plus shipping I could just change the transmission and transfer out a couple of times for that much. But if I was using the vehicle in the outback where it might make the difference between going back or not I would consider it. But just using it as a weekend warrior the price is a little steep. Thanks for the input. I guess if somebody going to make something heavy duty for the cruiser it's going to be OZ.

John

 

[Nick the Carpenter]

Is this in the one piece transfer case or split case? If it's in the one piece case at $350 plus shipping I could just change the transmission and transfer out a couple of times for that much. But if I was using the vehicle in the outback where it might make the difference between going back or not I would consider it. But just using it as a weekend warrior the price is a little steep. Thanks for the input. I guess if somebody going to make something heavy duty for the cruiser it's going to be OZ.

John

suites the one piece case, it was just a easy fix because you do not have to touch the tranny. I have nealy done 200,000KM and know backlash.You must like changing trannys, i do not want to do it again.

 

[Living in the Past]

In my 68 I can't pull the transfer case off the transmission while it is still in the vehicle (cross member behind the transfer case is in the way) so as long as I have to pull the whole unit it's just as easy to change the whole unit. As I said in a earlier post I don't rebuild the H42 transmissions I just replace them and have two spares with good tail shafts now. If this was my daily drive instead of a couple hundred miles a year it might be worth it. But since I haven't had it out since 1994 and it had a worn tail shaft when Installed pulling doesn't happen that often. The only reason I going to pull it now is for a clutch replacement. The only time I notice the backlash is at higher speed when I let off the gas. Like I said for my use it doen't warrent the cost. I'm not saying it isn't worth it, I'm just saying for me it isn't. But I would like to see a picture of what it looks like.

John

 

[65swb45]

Brand new tailshafts are still available for less money than that gear.........if you want to deal with the hassle of tearing down the tranny!

I have two H41s lined up for rebuilds in Sept. Both will be getting brand new tailshafts.

IMO, a new tailshaft should be good for 100-120k before any significant wear starts to show.

Of course there is always the option of the H41 10 spline output shaft.



Mark A.

 

[Doug_S]

Mark,



What would you want for a rebuilt unit?

 

[KOOTENAY KRUZER]

we have these two gears as a full billet here in oz, lots of spline and $350 :crybaby dollars will get you one. They do fit as one unit as i have one in mine.I think the spline in mine is about 100mm long,i hope this helps.

These are probably the same gears that 4wheelauto has for sale in Edmonton 4 Wheel Auto Wholesale -LANDCRUISER PARTS

 

[zebrabeefj40]

These are probably the same gears that 4wheelauto has for sale in Edmonton 4 Wheel Auto Wholesale -LANDCRUISER PARTS

$350 for the OZ gear is one thing: $800 for that Canadian gear is beyond nuts!



Nick