Traction control problem (I think)

[-Spike-]

On a recommendation from me, a friend purchased an '04 LC a few months ago. I've never owned a 100, but I figured it was a good choice for her since she basically wanted a reliable station wagon and would never wheel it. [/stupid 80 vs. 100 jokes]

She is having an issue which I will try to describe here. Apparently she was driving on a highway, somewhere over 50 MPH, when the truck started swerving nearly out of control of it's own volition several times. She saw an indicator light on the dash, but I'm not clear on which one. I assume it was either the ABS light or maybe an ATRAC light if such a thing exists. She thought she saw curved lines, which made me think of the 'slippery road' signs on icy highways and so I figured it was the ATRAC light.

This episode has repeated itself several times since then, for both her and her husband, with the kiddies in the car (and apparently they weren't too thrilled). No particular behavior seems to be bringing the problem on, it seems to happen when driving straight, at speed, perfect conditions, and perfectly randomly.

What she described sounded to me as if the brakes were applying on one wheel. My first impression was that the traction control system was malfunctioning, perhaps due to a faulty wheel speed sensor or something. Any suggestions as to what else I should look into would be appreciated.

However, she 'doesn't have time' to let me fix this obviously incredibly unsafe condition right now. My limited understanding of ATRAC leads me to believe it is related to the ABS system. Is there a way of disabling the ATRAC easily? I'm thinking fuse, and wondering if there's an ATRAC fuse, or an ABS fuse that would also disable ATRAC, or a magic switch on the dash (which I've never even looked at, so please don't haze me if there's a big 'ATRAC DISABLE' switch in the middle of the steering wheel).

UPDATE: DO NOT REMOVE THE ABS FUSES and drive the truck, and DO NOT IGNORE warning tones. See post #51 for more information.

Also, is this a known issue for the vehicle? I searched, but didn't find- and if I'm being an idiot please give me the magic keyword to unlock the hidden treasure trove of recall info. In my opinion, a problem like this should be taken care of by the dealer at no charge, as it seems like an extreme safety issue and a huge lawsuit waiting to happen (possibly after the funeral).

Thanks for your patience with the newbie-

-Spike

 

[CrusrDug]

The VSC (vehicle stability control) is what she is seeing. Whether that is the cause or the save- Sounds like she better find time to have it looked at. What you describe is not a known issue.

 

[richg]

I would definitely pull the ABS fuse until you can get it resolved. There are a variety of sensors involved in the VSC system so hopefully a dealer scan-tool has the ability to monitor them.

rich

 

[e9999]

with an 04, first thing to do is make a beeline to the dealer and have them check all that under warranty, which they better do cuz somebody could die here...

 

[-Spike-]

ABS fuse- easy for a woman to find? Labelled? Is that the only system that uses that fuse, or should I look for a relay or something?

As it turns out, she now thinks the Cruiser is an '01 or '02. I would think the dealer would still be willing to fix this ASAP.

-Spike

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

when the truck started swerving nearly out of control of it's own volition several times.

This episode has repeated itself several times since then, for both her and her husband, with the kiddies in the car (and apparently they weren't too thrilled). No particular behavior seems to be bringing the problem on, it seems to happen when driving straight, at speed, perfect conditions, and perfectly randomly.

Those are the comments that bother me. TRAC is not the culprit as it operates without a warning sound. VSC is in fact the system that is kicking in as it sounds the beeps.

My GUT tells me the problem is not in the VSC system. I would bet there is something else triggering the VSC CPU.

This is not normal....please give us more info:

Miles
Year
Area of the US
Weather....was it wet, etc.

 

[LX470Pilot]

I remember within the last year, someone posted about their alignment having been done improperly, the nut came loose and one wheel started to turn on its own, at speed etc.

Is it possible this is the same or a similar issue? VSC/ATRAC would trigger in this situation, right?

Also, I hate to be gruesome, but ask her if she doesn't have time to get such a serious problem checked out, if she instead has time to bury her children.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

if she instead has time to bury her children.

Come on now. Geeze.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

if she instead has time to bury her children.

Good thing you didn't say that to Spike's face.

 

[LX470Pilot]

Perhaps I might have said it in a nicer fashion.

But to "not have time" to protect your own children strikes me as being equally unthinkable.

If 3 members have an issue, I'll edit the post.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Perhaps I might have said it in a nicer fashion.

But to "not have time" to protect your own children strikes me as being equally unthinkable.

If 3 members have an issue, I'll edit the post.

I don't think we know the severity of the problem by Spike's post. I think if it is dangerous that they'd park the thing.

 

[LX470Pilot]

I don't think we know the severity of the problem by Spike's post. I think if it is dangerous that they'd park the thing.

... driving on a highway, somewhere over 50 MPH, when the truck started swerving nearly out of control of it's own volition several times...

...has repeated itself several times since then, for both her and her husband, with the kiddies in the car...

...happen when driving straight, at speed, perfect conditions, and perfectly randomly.

...'doesn't have time' to let me fix this obviously incredibly unsafe condition right now.

...seems like an extreme safety issue and a huge lawsuit waiting to happen (possibly after the funeral)

Even Spike identifies it as dangerous. It wasn't a one-off event, and they've driven it, and had the same problem, several times.

We don't know if the kids were onboard the first time or a subsequent time - but if they had put their children in a vehicle they knew was unsafe (after the first event), I'd call CPS.

But they can't be bothered to take the time to fix it.

Anyone who demonstrates this kind of decision making is non compus mentus.


Am I off-base here?

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Even Spike identifies it as dangerous. It wasn't a one-off event, and they've driven it, and had the same problem, several times.

We don't know if the kids were onboard the first time or a subsequent time - but if they had put their children in a vehicle they knew was unsafe (after the first event), I'd call CPS.

But they can't be bothered to take the time to fix it.

Anyone who demonstrates this kind of decision making is non compus mentus.


Am I off-base here?

Hopefully the kids were seatbelted in.

Good points.

 

[dclee]

Am I off-base here?

Nope. If that happened even once to me, that truck would not ever be driven by a member of my family again until it was certified fixed by Toyota (or I absolutely knew what the problem was, fixed it myself, and thoroughly tested it). There is not even any gray area here.

Spike - Does the problem happen when she is attempting to use the brakes? This exact thing happened to me on the old 80 Series. I accidentally busted one ABS sensor when re-inserting an axle shaft after a Birfield job. Stupid mistake, forgot to pull the ABS sensor first, and I can't even claim rookie status as this was about the fifth time I had pulled a Birf. With the bad sensor, when I applied brake (even gently braking), one wheel would intermittently start applying ABS pulsing, but only one wheel (since only one sensor was bad), which of course decreased the braking power to that wheel and caused the truck to want to heel over to the other side. If I was trying to brake harder at the time, then obviously the effect was more pronounced. However, the key was that I had to be applying brakes first before the behavior would occur. It was not just squeezing a caliper all on its own.

 

[-Spike-]

I think it's an extremely unsafe condition and I wouldn't drive it, let alone let my wife drive it with the kids in it. But it's not my truck. I give advice, I don't try to run other people's lives for them.

As stated earlier, the conditions are clear and sunny (perfect weather), driving straight at steady speed- no brakes applied, just holding speed. From what I gather, the first time it happened was going up a slight grade on the highway, but it has since happened on flat roads. This is in and around the Phoenix area.

I told her today to take it to a dealer and ask them if they want to fix it for free. If not, at least they'll diagnose it (free or not) and I will fix it. Meanwhile, I hope I can convince her to take the time to find the ******* fuse and pull it.

-Spike

 

[-Spike-]

PS- VSC = ?

-Spike

 

[-Spike-]

TRAC is not the culprit as it operates without a warning sound. VSC is in fact the system that is kicking in as it sounds the beeps.

My GUT tells me the problem is not in the VSC system. I would bet there is something else triggering the VSC CPU.

I didn't mention a warning sound. As far as I know there wasn't one, other than I believe she said she heard something like a motor- but I could be mistaken. It's been a few weeks since she told me about it and my memory sucks.

I can't think of any other explanation for the behavior as it was described to me other than the brakes applying themselves on single wheels, and as far as I know the only system that would be capable of doing that would be traction control. I suppose a blown wheel bearing might exhibit something similar, but she didn't note any odd noises when moving, nor do I believe it would be driveable for several months with a locked-up bearing, with the occasional problem.

-Spike

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

PS- VSC = ?

-Spike

Vehicle Skid Control

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I didn't mention a warning sound. As far as I know there wasn't one, other than I believe she said she heard something like a motor- but I could be mistaken. It's been a few weeks since she told me about it and my memory sucks.

I can't think of any other explanation for the behavior as it was described to me other than the brakes applying themselves on single wheels, and as far as I know the only system that would be capable of doing that would be traction control. I suppose a blown wheel bearing might exhibit something similar, but she didn't note any odd noises when moving, nor do I believe it would be driveable for several months with a locked-up bearing, with the occasional problem.

-Spike

I guess we need to know which light was blinking. Unless there's the beep, then we know it's VSC.

 

[LX470Pilot]

VSC = Vehicle Stability Control

Kinda like ABS but to help you keep moving instead of helping you stop.

I've only experienced it in a 2wd RX - on dirt, floor the accelerator and the wheels spin, VSC kicks in and applies wheel specific brake/modulates engine output to control spinning.

In a LC/LX it would be damn difficult to trigger unless on ice/snow/mud - since fulltime 4wd

Standard on the LX as of '00 - on the LC as of '01 (I think) and gives a tone to let you know it's working.


-LX Pilot

EDIT: Damn Shotts, you beat me. So is it Skid or Stability? Cause I've seen it referred to as both, just can't remember what the official line is.