Yet another glow plug thread -- 81' HJ47 (1 Viewer)

[meatbiscuit]

Been lurking the forums for a long time now and figured it was time to join officially.

I have a 1981 HJ47 RHD, originally from Australia, and have the dreaded "click" but nothing more when trying to glow or start. I pulled the glow plug relay and tested with a multimeter (relay part number is the 28610-46030) -- I'm getting +12V on the B terminal of the relay, and nothing on the G terminal when turning the key to glow or start. I can occasionally get a reading of ~+10.5V on the G terminal when the relay is intermittently functioning, but it's left me high and dry in a parking lot before and I need it to be reliable while I'm working on our other vehicles.

That said, I've searched thick and thin, and learned a ton of useful info regarding the glow plug wiring (and some of the erroneous material in the FSM), but haven't seen much in the way of retrofitting an aftermarket glow plug / starter relay into the setup / wiring on my rig. I picked up a glow plug relay that looks to be a reasonable replacement, pic below. I wanted to consult ya'll regarding the wiring before proceeding.

My plan was to run the original wire from the battery feed "B" terminal of the stock relay to the left-hand post in the pic above, and the glow feed "G" terminal of the stock relay to the right-hand post, but I'm not sure how to wire the front two terminals. The front terminals on the aftermarket relay are marked "S" and "I", I took that to mean "start" and "ignition", but I'm not sure where to wire in the glow / start wires of the ignition switch. My rig has an EDIC motor, and I've been using the diagram below as a reference for my wiring (shout out to lostmarbles for his excellent work here, credit goes to him for the diagram). Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[duncanrm]

I would honestly just leave all of the factory wiring alone and not try to integrate any of it..Instead of using the turnback function of the ignition switch I would wire in a push button to your new glow relay and a new cable from 12V+ on the battery to your solenoid and a big thick wire to your glow rail (after removing everything but the main glow rail on the glowplugs).

When its super cold this gives you the ability to hit the glow button for a few seconds after the vehicle has started and will prevent any future faults from degraded factory wiring.

Being an HJ47 without SuperGlow it already has the correct voltage plugs for a Wilson Switch.

 

[meatbiscuit]

Thanks Duncan.

I was aiming to retain the factory setup, but I'm starting to feel like wiring in a Wilson switch would be the best (I suppose this is why everyone else has gone this route ).

That said, right now, my bad glow plug relay is keeping the starter from turning over. How do you prevent the bad glow plug relay from keeping the starter relay from closing? I wired in the new relay from my previous post today to test, -- it's a 4 wire relay and has the starter running when the key is in both the "glow" and "start" positions.

This is baffling, as running the new relay with either of the "glow" or "start" wires connected will turn over the starter when the ignition switch is in the "start" position. When both the "glow" and "start" wires from the ignition switch are connected, the ignition switch will turn the starter in either of the "glow" or "start" positions.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[meatbiscuit]

SO -- bumping to ask the question, why in god's name would this relay trigger the starter when turned to both the glow and start positions? Shouldn't the wiring to the glow plug relay only be controlling whether or not the glow plugs heat both when the ignition switch is turned to glow and start? And not have any control over the starter being triggered when the key is turned to glow?

 

[Paraglider]

SO -- bumping to ask the question, why in god's name would this relay trigger the starter when turned to both the glow and start positions? Shouldn't the wiring to the glow plug relay only be controlling whether or not the glow plugs heat both when the ignition switch is turned to glow and start? And not have any control over the starter being triggered when the key is turned to glow?

I would love to know the answer to that question, too, because my HJ47 does the same thing--starts the starter in Glow or Start positions. I have what appears to be a Wilson switch in place of the glow plug light on the dash but I've never used it. Just let the plugs heat up from the key Start position.

 

[BreckenridgeCruiser]

@Paraglider Your starter should not be activated when you glow. In fact, I wonder if the wiring was messed up when the momentary switch was installed. Pictures speak louder than words. Post up a pic of that switch and your relays.

 

[ToyotaMatt]

@Paraglider Your starter should not be activated when you glow. In fact, I wonder if the wiring was messed up when the momentary switch was installed. Pictures speak louder than words. Post up a pic of that switch and your relays.

these do in-fact wear out internally , there a mechanical ROTORY switch filled with contact springs and balls too .....

a concrete confirm and verify correct function should be a 1 few steps step by step for sure ,

 

[Paraglider]

@Paraglider Your starter should not be activated when you glow. In fact, I wonder if the wiring was messed up when the momentary switch was installed. Pictures speak louder than words. Post up a pic of that switch and your relays.

Here are some pics that show the manual button where the GP light normally is. Has two yellow wires coming out, one that goes to the glow plug relay in the engine bay (seen in the 3rd and 4th photos) and one that gets spliced into by another wire. The yellow one of that splice goes to the engine fuse on the fuse box and I don't know where the wire splicing into it goes but it disappears into a shealth along with a bunch of other wires.

 

[Paraglider]

these do in-fact wear out internally , there a mechanical ROTORY switch filled with contact springs and balls too .....

a concrete confirm and verify correct function should be a 1 few steps step by step for sure ,



View attachment 2879689

My ignition barrel looks like the one in this photo. I can't tell if the photo I'm adding is this wire you show. There are two corrugated shealths coming out of the steering column, one on each side. This white connector and wires on other side comes from the left side of the column. The photo with the black covering a connector connecting to the green connector and fat wires (probably 6 gauge?) comes from the right side of the column (This is all on a RHD HJ47)

 

[ToyotaMatt]

My ignition barrel looks like the one in this photo. I can't tell if the photo I'm adding is this wire you show. There are two corrugated shealths coming out of the steering column, one on each side. This white connector and wires on other side comes from the left side of the column. The photo with the black covering a connector connecting to the green connector and fat wires (probably 6 gauge?) comes from the right side of the column (This is all on a RHD HJ47)
View attachment 2880352
View attachment 2880385

i dont see any ignition switch or any barrels is any of these pics

to do a propper by the FSM parts Identification Procedure here you would have to do the following :


- snap a pic of the lock and key cylinder face 1st and post that



- looking for the GLLOW FEATURE step part

thats #1


then report back here if i need more in depth ill give you step 2 remove the plastic column cover top portion only

and count the big phat wires going to the key Rotory switch

tell me if 4 or 5 ?


but pics of cylinder lock face first please

thanks



lets keep it simple eazy peezy ........

 

[Paraglider]

When I said the cylinder barrel looks like the one in "this photo" it was referring to the image you included with the Glow Lock ACC On Start sequence from left to right.

 

[Paraglider]

i dont see any ignition switch or any barrels is any of these pics

to do a propper by the FSM parts Identification Procedure here you would have to do the following :


- snap a pic of the lock and key cylinder face 1st and post that



- looking for the GLLOW FEATURE step part

thats #1


then report back here if i need more in depth ill give you step 2 remove the plastic column cover top portion only

and count the big phat wires going to the key Rotory switch

tell me if 4 or 5 ?


but pics of cylinder lock face first please

thanks



lets keep it simple eazy peezy ........







View attachment 2880416






View attachment 2880423
View attachment 2880419View attachment 2880420View attachment 2880421





View attachment 2880418




View attachment 2880424




View attachment 2880426

View attachment 2880417

View attachment 2880425

So if I have the ignition wiring for the glow feature, it should have 5 wires coming out of the connector that is green, right? But the green one is for a gas engine (FJ40) so it might have been switched for the one with the glow feature to be able to turn the key to GLOW and have it work, instead of having the engine turn over?

 

[ToyotaMatt]

So if I have the ignition wiring for the glow feature, it should have 5 wires coming out of the connector that is green, right? But the green one is for a gas engine (FJ40) so it might have been switched for the one with the glow feature to be able to turn the key to GLOW and have it work, instead of having the engine turn over?

When I said the cylinder barrel looks like the one in "this photo" it was referring to the image you included with the Glow Lock ACC On Start sequence from left to right.

i am not sure i fully understand what your trying to expain to me here , sorry ?



please post all the photos as i suggest above then we will know wwhats what with all that JIS JASS ?


thanks

 

[Paraglider]

i am not sure i fully understand what your trying to expain to me here , sorry ?



please post all the photos as i suggest above then we will know wwhats what with all that JIS JASS ?


thanks

Okay, not sure why that's so hard to understand but if you're a visual guy, here it is:

 

[Paraglider]

I took off the covering around the steering wheel and the ignition barrel only has 4 fat wires coming out of it as I had thought given the green color of the connector matches the FJ40 in your picture. But even if I put the right one in that has five wires coming out of it, I only have 4 wires coming out of the green connector on the other side that goes into the engine bay. What would have happened to the 5th wire?

 

[ToyotaMatt]

I took off the covering around the steering wheel and the ignition barrel only has 4 fat wires coming out of it as I had thought given the green color of the connector matches the FJ40 in your picture. But even if I put the right one in that has five wires coming out of it, I only have 4 wires coming out of the green connector on the other side that goes into the engine bay. What would have happened to the 5th wire?

well ..........

i did indeed SNIFF out a conflict of GENUINE TOYOTA Parts Applications interests from the onset here , but since i Am INDEED a VISUALS guy , i had to confirm before i could deny ...

thats's the factory focus-point mind-set approach in a nut shell ..

- i guess there are obvious tech conclusions here and a few unknown mysteries too still also ??


- We know you have the incorrect elec key switch now concrete for sure ...


- the GLOW key cylinder is a 5 step ROTORY application

- NON-GLOW are ONLY 4 Steps

- i have no idea what wilson switch is ? so if u can elaborate further , be helpful ?

- i only speak OEM toyota , and that;s not in any FSM iv seen since being permanently programed back in T-TEN

- i do know a YELLOW indash indicator LAMP does go where this Wilson Device is now , but why remains unclear also ?



- so ,,,,,,

- here is what i prescribe and suggest next :

- obtain a propper GLOW key switch , we know thats wrong and will need to be corrected after or during you investigate , shoot many many photos and postn them here in this thread so myself and others can better assist you in every possible way ,


- Below i have RED FLAGGED ALL areas of concern and further study to confirm or deny the WHY ?


- at the end of the day we will know , and then your HJ47R-LP will be ready to gitty up and go ...


- pictures do indeed tell 1,001 words so bring them on !


- THE RED INK FLAGS are all NON OEM in some way shape or form , this much we know ....


report back after you complete the above


thanks

-

 

[Paraglider]

well ..........

i did indeed SNIFF out a conflict of GENUINE TOYOTA Parts Applications interests from the onset here , but since i Am INDEED a VISUALS guy , i had to confirm before i could deny ...

thats's the factory focus-point mind-set approach in a nut shell ..

- i guess there are obvious tech conclusions here and a few unknown mysteries too still also ??


- We know you have the incorrect elec key switch now concrete for sure ...


- the GLOW key cylinder is a 5 step ROTORY application

- NON-GLOW are ONLY 4 Steps

- i have no idea what wilson switch is ? so if u can elaborate further , be helpful ?

- i only speak OEM toyota , and that;s not in any FSM iv seen since being permanently programed back in T-TEN

- i do know a YELLOW indash indicator LAMP does go where this Wilson Device is now , but why remains unclear also ?



- so ,,,,,,

- here is what i prescribe and suggest next :

- obtain a propper GLOW key switch , we know thats wrong and will need to be corrected after or during you investigate , shoot many many photos and postn them here in this thread so myself and others can better assist you in every possible way ,


- Below i have RED FLAGGED ALL areas of concern and further study to confirm or deny the WHY ?


- at the end of the day we will know , and then your HJ47R-LP will be ready to gitty up and go ...


- pictures do indeed tell 1,001 words so bring them on !


- THE RED INK FLAGS are all NON OEM in some way shape or form , this much we know ....


report back after you complete the above


thanks






View attachment 2881506


View attachment 2881507




-

Thanks for pointing out the nonOEM electrical connections/wires. I wish I knew where those wires go. I'll try to give it another look, but it's really tough when they disappear into shealths and you don't see the same wire coming out somewhere in the engine bay. On top of that, the PO did his own thing and there is wiring in the engine bay that goes nowhere (connections floating in the air on standby) and you don't know where they came from or what their reason is for being there. Visibly, the only things that don't work are the oil pressure (working on that one), the fuel gauges and the glow system for how it's supposed to work. I get the impression some things stopped working and so the PO did work-arounds, but that doesn't really explain the nonconnecting electrical wires.

Anyway, the Wilson switch supposedly is something a lot of owners install because at some point the superglow stops working and it's easier/less expensive/simpler, I guess. I'm sure there's some connection between the changing of the ignition wiring and the Wilson switch. I am only recently learning about the switch, myself. Right now, the Wilson switch wiring (two yellow wires) goes to the Engine fuse and the glow plug relay, but there seems to be another wire that's spliced into one of the yellow ones. I'm waiting for a glow plug to arrive to replace a faulty one and then will put everything back together to try to do some testing and find out what's being electrically activated when I do this or that. Up to this point, I've only used the "On" key position to heat the glow plugs, so it will be enlightening when I try to use the Wilson switch and see if anything shows voltage. I'll pick up the thread as soon as I get more info.

 

[Paraglider]

well ..........

i did indeed SNIFF out a conflict of GENUINE TOYOTA Parts Applications interests from the onset here , but since i Am INDEED a VISUALS guy , i had to confirm before i could deny ...

thats's the factory focus-point mind-set approach in a nut shell ..

- i guess there are obvious tech conclusions here and a few unknown mysteries too still also ??


- We know you have the incorrect elec key switch now concrete for sure ...


- the GLOW key cylinder is a 5 step ROTORY application

- NON-GLOW are ONLY 4 Steps

- i have no idea what wilson switch is ? so if u can elaborate further , be helpful ?

- i only speak OEM toyota , and that;s not in any FSM iv seen since being permanently programed back in T-TEN

- i do know a YELLOW indash indicator LAMP does go where this Wilson Device is now , but why remains unclear also ?



- so ,,,,,,

- here is what i prescribe and suggest next :

- obtain a propper GLOW key switch , we know thats wrong and will need to be corrected after or during you investigate , shoot many many photos and postn them here in this thread so myself and others can better assist you in every possible way ,


- Below i have RED FLAGGED ALL areas of concern and further study to confirm or deny the WHY ?


- at the end of the day we will know , and then your HJ47R-LP will be ready to gitty up and go ...


- pictures do indeed tell 1,001 words so bring them on !


- THE RED INK FLAGS are all NON OEM in some way shape or form , this much we know ....


report back after you complete the above


thanks






View attachment 2881506


View attachment 2881507




-

ToyotaMatt, so here are a couple more pics although the one showing the other end of the ignition wire isn't much different from the one I already have above. It only has 4 wires coming into it. You can see the three and the fourth one is hidden behind the others. The pic of the ignition wiring is defiitely the 4-wire one, not the 5-wire one that allows the glow to be turned to (at least not without starting the engine, wich is what it does now if I turn it to Glow. I also checked my plug voltage and they're all 6v, so I assume it heats up on the superglow process. But I don't know why the PO would have put in a momentary button if it is to by-pass the superglow system (but I suppose it's possible that it was only installed to activate the superglow because the wrong ignition wiring was put in. Is that likely? I mean I can still heat the plugs by just turning the key to "On."

 

[ToyotaMatt]

ToyotaMatt, so here are a couple more pics although the one showing the other end of the ignition wire isn't much different from the one I already have above. It only has 4 wires coming into it. You can see the three and the fourth one is hidden behind the others. The pic of the ignition wiring is defiitely the 4-wire one, not the 5-wire one that allows the glow to be turned to (at least not without starting the engine, wich is what it does now if I turn it to Glow. I also checked my plug voltage and they're all 6v, so I assume it heats up on the superglow process. But I don't know why the PO would have put in a momentary button if it is to by-pass the superglow system (but I suppose it's possible that it was only installed to activate the superglow because the wrong ignition wiring was put in. Is that likely? I mean I can still heat the plugs by just turning the key to "On."

View attachment 2887326

View attachment 2887327

It seams to me if the key lock is a glow with extra turning radious

And the key switch has less this would be the logical place to begin the hunt for tue PO Jerry rig of some obviously one or the other ?

Extra Rotory rotation. Can indeed maybe leed do starting in more then one key spot locaton ?


I have not run into this yet before but tue parts can mesh mechanically for sure

 

[Paraglider]

It seams to me if the key lock is a glow with extra turning radious

And the key switch has less this would be the logical place to begin the hunt for tue PO Jerry rig of some obviously one or the other ?

Extra Rotory rotation. Can indeed maybe leed do starting in more then one key spot locaton ?


I have not run into this yet before but tue parts can mesh mechanically for sure

ToyotaMatt,
I'd like to come back to this now that I have the glow plug system squared away (new current sensor, new plugs and all put back together). I'm not sure I understand your last entry. But to recap, I can turn to each thing on the ignition switch and they function EXCEPT the Glow, which causes the engine to turn over like on Start. The ignition wiring, as the picture I sent shows, it is a FJ40 ignition wiring with only 4 wires. I should have the 5-wire one and I would buy it BUT on the other end of the of the white connector of the ignition wiring (where the green connector is), there are only four wires connecting. I need FIVE, right? Otherwise, it's not helpful to have an ignition wire with 5 wires to activate the GLOW on the ignition wiring if I don't have a wire that goes to the Glow Plugs (at least that's what I assume is missing from the four wire one). So not sure how to proceed from here--You show three red circled nonOEM wiring applications in that same photo but I have no idea what they do or if one of them should be the fifth wire. The system works as is, so I should probably leave well enough alone, but if I had a five-wire connector on the other side of the ignition wiring, I'd buy the right one.