Who uses GAIA?

[1Louder]

Here's an example where I was drawing a route. I could easily zoom down to 200ft. USFS Raster

They are available in the Android app as well. I just checked. I don't think they require a Pro account. USFS Raster is under North America sources. My app version is 6.5.12 for Android.

Gaia doesn't produce maps for the most part. They source them so you argument over not being compatible with folks that are colorblind is difficult to blame them. Blame the source of the maps.

I don't think Gaia is difficult to use and the UI is pretty good. On a phone or smaller screen it might not be as easy as a larger tablet but it still isn't bad. Am I a power user? Sure. All I'm try to do is bring the knowledge level up for other users so they can get more out of the app.

It is great for off-roading and it pretty much all I use. It is my primary source.

 

[1Louder]

I'm pretty sure the USGS maps are gone. Err FS maps. Whatever shows the actual FS roads are gone. I did a trip to the North Rim of the GCanyon back in May. Nothing. Contacted their support, and they said that there was nothing they could do. The whole reason I have the app and service is to be able to find FS roads out here in the West.

Look at my example above. The labels are very easy to read for each forest road with the raster maps. While they aren't everywhere most of the places I explore have them now. They are great.

Here's my write-up on the app with some more examples: Our Navigation App of Choice - Gaia GPS - 4X Overland Adventures

 

[GWcruiser]

Louder, you said "USFS Raster is under North America sources." Where do I find that path in the Gaia App?

 

[1Louder]

Louder, you said "USFS Raster is under North America sources." Where do I find that path in the Gaia App?

Top right tap the Map Layer icon. At least that's where it is in my Androind app. Looks like a sandwich. Scroll down and pick More Layers. North America is top choice. Tap that and USFS Raster is the 2nd choice.

Time for bed! Up since 3:45am.

 

[GWcruiser]

This is exactly what I mean about usability. Why would I look for a base map way down in More Layers, especially when I already have unusable duplicates in the Base Map selection panel?

Is there a method to clear the top most list of maps that probably are stale, no longer available maps?

...

Ah yes, now I remember... additional Base Maps are available in the More Layers option. Why it wasn't named Base Map Selection is beyond me... there are no extra layer items in that menu. And you can't stack Base Maps (and gray out one of the layers, like sat images over topos).

The Gaia team really needs a UI expert; might get them off their cliff. Either make the better app features intuitive and easy to use or depend on 'experts' to train up all your user base. Problem with that second approach is you lose 3/4 your users before they learn there are experts that may be able to help.

Even simple things like BUSY would be appreciated... and would let users know the app is working on something; like updating the map before displaying it. Selecting a Satellite Base from a USGS Topo Base causes the app to display various maps it has used recently - not the map selected - so users can easily think the app is broken, not busy. And no - BUSY doesn't mean everything stops; the app can still work; it just needs to provide some feedback the view isn't up to date with the selections. That would also let users know something is slowing things down.

e.g., Are the web servers hosting the maps slow (why does a 100MB map take an hour on my 100Mb/s network)? The machine the app is on (maybe the flash memory is the really slow but reliable type)? The app itself (some agreement with the map providers to throttle downloads)?

Most folk may dismiss these criticisms - but the real loser in this is the Gaia team. It's been my experience technical customers have a fairly high tolerance for quirky - but little tolerance for difficult or broken. And Gaia on Android is a bit beyond quirky, and edging broken.

 

[1Louder]

The common questions for how to do things in Gaia are clearly listed on their website. It takes 2-3 clicks to get your answer.

iOS – Help Center

Android – Help Center

Add Map Sources

Download Maps for Offline Use

You can complain about UI until the cows come home or you can learn how to use a given app. That’s your choice. A BIG issue with Android is there are NO UI requirements when developing software. There are very little standards. Apple however has a lot of requirements. Why? Because they try to make it easier for people to understand a wide variety of apps with common button styles, slides, etc. One can hate on Apple all they want but they have done a much better job in this area. Developers also might want to create better UI in their Android apps but can’t because Android does not offer the options.

This is exactly what I mean about usability. Why would I look for a base map way down in More Layers, especially when I already have unusable duplicates in the Base Map selection panel?

So your complaint is where the “More Layers” option is and how it is named. Ok…

Is there a method to clear the top most list of maps that probably are stale, no longer available maps?

Change the Visible Map Source

This is also where you can turn a map type off.

Ah yes, now I remember... additional Base Maps are available in the More Layers option. Why it wasn't named Base Map Selection is beyond me... there are no extra layer items in that menu. And you can't stack Base Maps (and gray out one of the layers, like sat images over topos).

I have never heard this complaint from anyone else that I have helped voluntarily use the software. These are layers. You pick the base map by dragging and dropping your map choices under the Visible section on top. Available layers, the ones you choose to turn on and off are listed below that. In Gaia Pro if you have more than one layer visible you can select the percentage displayed.

The Gaia team really needs a UI expert; might get them off their cliff. Either make the better app features intuitive and easy to use or depend on 'experts' to train up all your user base. Problem with that second approach is you lose 3/4 your users before they learn there are experts that may be able to help.

I think reading the help files covers at least 75% of the issues a new user may have. The user has to take the time to read them. I did. As you mentioned their support team is responsive. Why not ask them who does their UI.

Even simple things like BUSY would be appreciated... and would let users know the app is working on something; like updating the map before displaying it. Selecting a Satellite Base from a USGS Topo Base causes the app to display various maps it has used recently - not the map selected - so users can easily think the app is broken, not busy. And no - BUSY doesn't mean everything stops; the app can still work; it just needs to provide some feedback the view isn't up to date with the selections. That would also let users know something is slowing things down.

I would reduce the amount of layers you have. I generally only use 1 or 2.

e.g., Are the web servers hosting the maps slow (why does a 100MB map take an hour on my 100Mb/s network)? The machine the app is on (maybe the flash memory is the really slow but reliable type)? The app itself (some agreement with the map providers to throttle downloads)?

No idea. Ask them.

Most folk may dismiss these criticisms - but the real loser in this is the Gaia team. It's been my experience technical customers have a fairly high tolerance for quirky - but little tolerance for difficult or broken. And Gaia on Android is a bit beyond quirky, and edging broken.

Present day Gaia on Android is about as close to the iOS version as it can get. Again, there are limitation with the core code that Android offers when creating UI elements. I would encourage you to convey your feelings to Gaia. Some of your issues may be with your older hardware. Those are the breaks. We all experience that.

I am more than happy to sit down with folks and try to give a tutorial and answer questions over a beer. If you buy me the beer even better. I don't work for Gaia. I do talk to them all the time. I like their software enough and believe it is the best app out there for what I do so I voluntarily represent them online and answer questions as I have time. I went out of the way to fire up my Android phone to look at the differences to help you and you keep firing back additional complaints. That's cool but you should take that up with Gaia. Besides the help site they use Reddit for people to ask questions and provide feedback. Gaia GPS News and Discussion • /r/GaiaGPS

I hate the way iOS handles files downloaded from the Internet. Instead of giving up I figured out how to do it and took the time to share that information with others. At the moment I have the luxury of time.

 

[1Louder]

I use a Chromebook too. Is there any way to get the program to work with a laptop, and not just a mobile device?

Found this with a quick search of Google. Let me know if it works.

Enable the Google Play Store

1. Turn on and unlock your Chromebook (main account).
2. Click on your image, in the bottom-right corner of the screen.
3. A few options will pop up; select “Settings”.
4. Under “Android Apps” there will be an option that reads: “Enable Android Apps to run on your Chromebook”.

More items...
How to run Android apps on your Chromebook - Android Authority
www.androidauthority.com/run-android-apps-chromebook-703248/

 

[GWcruiser]

Change the Visible Map Source

Curious; on the Gaia web page, regarding choosing different maps, it shows the menu option as "Add more sources," not "More Layers" as it shows in my app. Seems they have been having others comment about this exact UI issue and have been hunting for the right words to describe the function. Why not use words that actually define the function? Change Visible Map Source does that fairly well.

Louder, it is clear you are taking my comments personally. My apologies, that was not and is not my intention. I appreciate your efforts to help CSC and Gaia; I am sure they also appreciate the effort. Your post even got me to think back to all the hours I spent trying to figure out a very buggy Gaia a few years ago; and the efforts their team made to make the product do what was claimed. But bear in mind taking feedback about a product is as important a task as training. I was making rhetorical comments/criticisms here that I thought would make it back to the team; now that I know it's a one way street I'll redirect my comments to them directly.

 

[1Louder]

Besides this long winded post below here are a few other tidbits. Auto routing will be coming out soon for Android. A new User Interface designer is coming on board to Gaia. I am now on the beta team for Gaia. I will primarily be testing iOS stuff but as time permits will do Android as well.

Now for the cool techy stuff below which includes a tutorial to add custom maps like Google, if you don't have them in Gaia, along with some other things I am working on in the 4XOA Lab.

Not sure how many of you are aware of this feature but you can import custom maps into Gaia GPS via a tool they provide. I wrote a basic tutorial on how to do this using Google Maps as the example. This is a very powerful tool. One that I am trying to take to the next level by importing all of the Motor Vehicle Use Maps beginning with Arizona. These are fast becoming the only Official record of open forest roads. If you want to stay legal you need to reference these maps. PDF Maps for iOS by Avenza allows you to use the MVUM maps but Gaia GPS is my preferred navigation app. I don't like to bounce back and forth between apps if I don't have to.

Here's an example of 2 custom maps layers. On the left is the Kaibab National Forest Williams District Map in black and white and the Coconino National Forest North map in color.

To get all of this to work and to get the highest resolution of maps available it will take purchasing some software which is not cheap. The other hope is Gaia will just eventually incorporate these layers into their app directly. Most likely these would only be available with a pro subscription.

So for those of you who use Gaia how valuable would these map layers be to you?
[ ] Only if they are free
[ ] Only if they are free from within Gaia GPS
[ ] Yes, I would pay $5-10 for the ability to access these maps from a 3rd party
[ ] Yes, I would be willing to pay for an annual pro subscription from Gaia

I don't work for Gaia. I am just a heavy user, product evangelist, and I am always trying to make the app even better.

My tutorial to learn how to import custom maps can be found here: How to Import Custom Maps into Gaia GPS - 4X Overland Adventures

Thanks,
Chris

Here is the current complete list of MVUM maps across the country.
USDA Forest Service - Caring for the land and serving people.


They have just added Hunting Map layers and public lands identification overlays to the pro subscriptions. Gaia GPS - Tap into the Wild

 

[Stepmurr]

So for those of you who use Gaia how valuable would these map layers be to you?
[ ] Only if they are free
[ ] Only if they are free from within Gaia GPS
[ ] Yes, I would pay $5-10 for the ability to access these maps from a 3rd party
[ ] Yes, I would be willing to pay for an annual pro subscription from Gaia

[ ] Only if they are free

I like Gaia and have been using it for years, but MVUMs in PDF Reader are totally free and work very well.

I use Garmin as the primary navigation device and have my tablet running PDF Reader. I glance at the tablet from time to time as the Garmin shows ALL roads, even ones that have been abandoned for years.

Please tell the new Gaia UI dude to create a way to easily tell what map tiles are already downloaded to the device so you know what more you need to download before a trip.

I currently use map pins to estimate what I have and what I will need, and often wind up with an empty map when I venture somewhere unexpected.

 

[1Louder]

[ ] Only if they are free

I like Gaia and have been using it for years, but MVUMs in PDF Reader are totally free and work very well.

Correct I stated that in my long winded post. That app is very limited though with regards to running tracks. It is a great map viewer and that's about it. For some folks that's all the need. It will show you where you are on the map as you move along.

Please tell the new Gaia UI dude to create a way to easily tell what map tiles are already downloaded to the device so you know what more you need to download before a trip.

Your cloud account shows this. Be sure to name them with a detailed name like: Cherry Creek Trail USFS Raster. Then it is easier to tell what you have. Remember that if you have a track you can click on the information for that track and tell the app to download maps for track. You can see all of your maps on the device by Title, Date, and Distance (relative to your current position) which can also help. That's all under the Saved button in Gaia.

Another trick is turn off Wifi and/or 3G and view where you are going. If you don't have the maps well they won't appear. It is just a good way to triple check you have what you need. Clear your map cache as well.

If you build a route with the new routing function the app will ask what maps you want to download when you save the route from all of the layers you have chosen to use in the app. I am trying to get better at building routes and using folders because it keeps things much better organized within the app.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

@1Louder interested in doing a CSC overview of Gaia and its capabilities? I can provide a projector and any other AV equipment needed.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Top right tap the Map Layer icon. At least that's where it is in my Androind app. Looks like a sandwich. Scroll down and pick More Layers. North America is top choice. Tap that and USFS Raster is the 2nd choice.

Time for bed! Up since 3:45am.

Why Raster over the other choices?

 

[Otter]

Found this with a quick search of Google. Let me know if it works.

Enable the Google Play Store

1. Turn on and unlock your Chromebook (main account).
2. Click on your image, in the bottom-right corner of the screen.
3. A few options will pop up; select “Settings”.
4. Under “Android Apps” there will be an option that reads: “Enable Android Apps to run on your Chromebook”.

More items...
How to run Android apps on your Chromebook - Android Authority
www.androidauthority.com/run-android-apps-chromebook-703248/

I guess I could've googled that, but it's so much easier to just expect that you have all the answers, Chris.

I'm pretty sure that's just for newer Chromebooks, since mine is a few years older, it's not going to be supported for Android apps. Thanks for looking though.

The next run we're on together, I'll be sure to provide the beer for your expertise.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

I guess I could've googled that, but it's so much easier to just expect that you have all the answers, Chris.

I'm pretty sure that's just for newer Chromebooks, since mine is a few years older, it's not going to be supported for Android apps. Thanks for looking though.

The next run we're on together, I'll be sure to provide the beer for your expertise.

I have access to the new Chromebook if you want to do a comparison

 

[Otter]

I have access to the new Chromebook if you want to do a comparison

Cool. I'll have to check it out next time I see you. I'm probably due for a new Chromebook, and this might push me over the edge.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Cool. I'll have to check it out next time I see you. I'm probably due for a new Chromebook, and this might push me over the edge.

It needs to be brought home if you follow me. Just let me know

 

[Otter]

It needs to be brought home if you follow me. Just let me know

Will do. Thanks

 

[1Louder]

@1Louder interested in doing a CSC overview of Gaia and its capabilities? I can provide a projector and any other AV equipment needed.

Yeah one of these days. Not sure how to project an iPad screen but maybe you know how to do that. I could try to cover the high level basics like creating routes and tracks, importing and exporting of tracks and waypoints, favorite map layers. It would help to have a list of questions from people that plan on attending in advanced to add to the presentation.

Why Raster over the other choices?

I just think they are the cleanest and easiest to read. I can easily write down all of the FR names/#'s for reference and there is good POI information in them. If I can get the MVUM stuff to work, and I have been pretty successful with AZ so far, that will be another good layer. The problem with some of the MVUM maps is they are really old and not Georeferenced. So when you try to create a map in Gaia the program I am using for the conversion has no idea where the map data actually is. You can manually create reference points but then the maps tend to be a bit off.

Note the level of detail of the forest road names. Of course it is better to look at the actual maps online at GaiaGPS.com or in your app. Castner Mountain Trail and Track.

Same view with the MVUM layer on top (My custom map not available without help)

Same view zoomed out with the MVUM layer added on top. You can see where Coconino South MVUM ends on the west side of the map. You can always change the percentage of the layer so I could make the MVUM 100% if I wanted to.

MVUM at 95%. You can see where the whitespace of the MVUM covers up the Raster info on the left. This view just gives you a better idea on the resolution of the MVUM color maps. Most are black and white though.

I am off today, and it is raining so I can quickly create silly screenshots like these!

 

[Stepmurr]

Correct I stated that in my long winded post. That app is very limited though with regards to running tracks. It is a great map viewer and that's about it. For some folks that's all the need. It will show you where you are on the map as you move along.



Your cloud account shows this. Be sure to name them with a detailed name like: Cherry Creek Trail USFS Raster. Then it is easier to tell what you have. Remember that if you have a track you can click on the information for that track and tell the app to download maps for track. You can see all of your maps on the device by Title, Date, and Distance (relative to your current position) which can also help. That's all under the Saved button in Gaia.

Another trick is turn off Wifi and/or 3G and view where you are going. If you don't have the maps well they won't appear. It is just a good way to triple check you have what you need. Clear your map cache as well.

If you build a route with the new routing function the app will ask what maps you want to download when you save the route from all of the layers you have chosen to use in the app. I am trying to get better at building routes and using folders because it keeps things much better organized within the app.

Thanks for the feedback.

I guess I should have defined "easily tell"

The biggest frustration to using Gaia is not knowing what tiles are already on the device and how much needs to be downloaded before a trip.

And yes, I turn off Wi-Fi and browse areas to see if the map tiles show up - but that is more of a guessing game than I care to do.

"easily tell" to me would be if Gaia had the ability to draw an outline of the tiles already downloaded on a base map, or if I could draw an outline on the base map and Gaia would show what part of that is downloaded. Ideally Gaia would then just keep downloading tiles until the outlined area is completely downloaded, and not make me guess at how many download sets I will need to get. For example if I outline the entire state of Arizona Gaia should just keeping creating and downloading tile sets until the state is completely downloaded and not make me create 27 tile sets on my own.

That is why I have resorted to using push pins to get a rough idea of what I have downloaded on the device.

The download-along-tracks concept might be ok for travelling along major roads, but kinda bites for exploration. The whole point of having a GPS device is so I can go anywhere I have a whim to go without knowing ahead of time where that might be. I typically pull out the maps first thing in the morning and pick a destination based on what strikes my fancy. I rarely plan a three day camping trip route and actually stick to the planned roads.