Which wires to tap for subwoofer amplifier (2013 LX570 ML system)? (1 Viewer)

[Mbethman]

Greetings and Salutations,
Long-time lurker, first-time poster.
I have a 2013 LX570 with the ML system. I currently have a Rockford Fosgate 500w powered sub that I hooked up using the ML sub leads. I feel like I am missing some range and would like to try and tap the signal from the front door speakers unless there is a better solution. My initial idea was to grab the signal from the head unit going into the ML amp but from what I have seen that signal is MOST. I have no idea what that means but I assume I should not mess with it. After spending hours last night and this morning trying to find any documentation of which wires I need to tap on the 30 pin plug out from the amp, I am throwing myself at the mercy of the brain trust here. Thanks in advance for any assistance.

-Mike

 

[grinchy]

Greetings and Salutations,
Long-time lurker, first-time poster.
I have a 2013 LX570 with the ML system. I currently have a Rockford Fosgate 500w powered sub that I hooked up using the ML sub leads. I feel like I am missing some range and would like to try and tap the signal from the front door speakers unless there is a better solution. My initial idea was to grab the signal from the head unit going into the ML amp but from what I have seen that signal is MOST. I have no idea what that means but I assume I should not mess with it. After spending hours last night and this morning trying to find any documentation of which wires I need to tap on the 30 pin plug out from the amp, I am throwing myself at the mercy of the brain trust here. Thanks in advance for any assistance.

-Mike

Here's the pin out and wire colors for the sub, but there is no functional difference from the amp out or speaker in. The amp will have already done whatever DSP and house adjustments it does either way. Obviously if you want to put the amp under the driver seat or passenger seat (More space) the location could matter.

You could consider a sub amp with bass recovery or harmonic boost if you're interested in recovering source excluded by the ML DSP. Audio Control among others tout a couple different techniques for this.

A = F60. So position 5, 6 on F60 are the sub

 

[Mbethman]

As usual, I did a terrible job of asking the question. I am looking for the location/color of the wires for the front door speakers in an effort to get more mid-range bass. I currently have the amplified sub leads running into my amp and seem to be missing some range. It sounds pretty damn good and is loud but I feel like what the amp is sending to the oem sub is very limited. I have the seat out and the 30 pin plug out of the ML amp. I just need to know which damn wires I can tap into (assuming the front door speakers are best). Down the road, if I am not happy I will school myself on summing the two signals possibly but that is for another day. Right now I am just hoping to give this a shot.
Since I wrote the original post, I have been scouring the forum and found some mention of tapping the MOST signal coming from the head unit to the amp but there was no follow-up on whether or not it is a solution. My amp/sub will handle low-level or high-level inputs (Rockford Fosgate P500-12P) so I am curious if this is an option.
Thanks for the reply and sorry for being confusing.

-Mike

 

[grinchy]

ok. 12 and 13 or 10 and 11.

A still equal F60.

 

[grinchy]

For your zooming pleasure. Here are all the outputs on the Amp.

 

[Mbethman]

Thank you, sir!
Wish me luck.

 

[Julian73]

No expert on the 'Toyota' methods but all the amp out (speaker in) signals are post processed and frequency chopped for the particular speaker set. I.e. sub woofer signal is probably low pass filtered at 80 to 100 Hz as subs really distort above 100-120 Hz. So even if you can feed in a signal from midrange door speakers you'll be adding distortion and only a signal fro the left or right channel. Sounds like you need to adjust your subwoofer setts down, the sense of "lack of range" is probably due to the sub overpowering the sound levels above the crossover point, or boost mid bass range with its own R/L amps and speaker sets.

 

[Mbethman]

I tapped into 10, 11, 12 & 13 and ran two RCA's back to the sub, and plugged them in. I am happy. There is a lot more mid range bass than I was getting from the lines that went to the OEM sub and the sound is louder overall. I set the crossover on the box to somewhere around 125 and it got rid of the high stuff. I was worried that the low range would not be there since the leads were going to front speakers (I'm still not sure exactly which ones by the way but there is plenty of bass. That Rockford Fosgate P500-12P is a pretty neat setup. 500w powered 12" with speaker or low level inputs, crossover, instant on when it gets a signal from the stereo, remote bass control, and quick disconnects. Not a bad setup for $500 if you are trying to recapture your youth and bump some Too Short. I'm still curious about the head unit MOST leads because of course I am eyeing a dual 12" box with a 1000w amp. I'm just afraid that it will be all bass at that point. Then I would have to go down the rabbit hole of upgrading the other speakers.

Thanks again for the help grinchy.
-Mike

 

[AnyMal]

You can always sum channels as well OP.

 

[Ratchey]

As usual, I did a terrible job of asking the question. I am looking for the location/color of the wires for the front door speakers in an effort to get more mid-range bass. I currently have the amplified sub leads running into my amp and seem to be missing some range. It sounds pretty damn good and is loud but I feel like what the amp is sending to the oem sub is very limited. I have the seat out and the 30 pin plug out of the ML amp. I just need to know which damn wires I can tap into (assuming the front door speakers are best). Down the road, if I am not happy I will school myself on summing the two signals possibly but that is for another day. Right now I am just hoping to give this a shot.
Since I wrote the original post, I have been scouring the forum and found some mention of tapping the MOST signal coming from the head unit to the amp but there was no follow-up on whether or not it is a solution. My amp/sub will handle low-level or high-level inputs (Rockford Fosgate P500-12P) so I am curious if this is an option.
Thanks for the reply and sorry for being confusing.

-Mike

There is a lot of sub info here Factory Subwoofer Info Guide - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/factory-subwoofer-info-guide.1193993/
Also a description of MOST here Factory Subwoofer Info Guide - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/factory-subwoofer-info-guide.1193993/post-13034702
You will need a processor that can handle digital in and out communications to utilize MOST

 

[grinchy]

Glad you got it rolling. What you tapped are the front woofers in the lower front doors.
No idea what frequency band they’re getting, but it probably wouldn’t be hard to deduce with a voltmeter and a signal generator.

 

[Mbethman]

You can always sum channels as well OP.

I was thinking that out of the gate, but the door speakers are pretty much small woofers and they seem to be getting exactly what frequencies I was looking for.

 

[AnyMal]

I was thinking that out of the gate, but the door speakers are pretty much small woofers and they seem to be getting exactly what frequencies I was looking for.

Maybe use the tailgate rears then?

 

[Ratchey]

Maybe use the tailgate rears then?

Those speakers are pretty small. I would imagine they only receive mid and upper range frequencies.
The front door speakers are 6x9 and get a larger range of frequencies except for the sub bass and high frequencies.
I summed the front door and sub frequencies to get the desired range I was looking for but I do cross my sub at about 80Hz. Currently only running an 8" JL sub but still looking for a much better 10".

 

[Mbethman]

Those speakers are pretty small. I would imagine they only receive mid and upper range frequencies.
The front door speakers are 6x9 and get a larger range of frequencies except for the sub bass and high frequencies.
I summed the front door and sub frequencies to get the desired range I was looking for but I do cross my sub at about 80Hz. Currently only running an 8" JL sub but still looking for a much better 10".

Summing and DSP are new to me. Do you mind sharing what make/model you bought? I may give it a shot and see if I am missing lower bass. I am still playing with where I want to cross my sub at. I think I am around 100 right now on the dial that the amp has on it.

 

[Ratchey]

Summing and DSP are new to me. Do you mind sharing what make/model you bought? I may give it a shot and see if I am missing lower bass. I am still playing with where I want to cross my sub at. I think I am around 100 right now on the dial that the amp has on it.

I have the Audio Control DM810. Way overkill for what you are trying to do and what I am currently using it for DM-810 - AudioControl - https://www.audiocontrol.com/car-audio/digital-signal-processors/dm-810/ (Originally used in my 4Runner with a fully custom system and then in my ES350 to replace the amp and speakers but keep the head unit)

You would probably just need something along the lines of their Epicenter series. The Epicenter Processors - AudioControl - https://www.audiocontrol.com/car-audio/the-epicenter-processors/

 

[Mbethman]

I have the Audio Control DM810. Way overkill for what you are trying to do and what I am currently using it for DM-810 - AudioControl - https://www.audiocontrol.com/car-audio/digital-signal-processors/dm-810/ (Originally used in my 4Runner with a fully custom system and then in my ES350 to replace the amp and speakers but keep the head unit)

You would probably just need something along the lines of their Epicenter serries. The Epicenter Processors - AudioControl - https://www.audiocontrol.com/car-audio/the-epicenter-processors/

Awesome, thanks.
Stupid question #1:
I have two RCA's coming from the stock sub and two coming from the leads I ran from the factory amp.
What to do?
Or could/should I tap the MOST inputs into the amp and run them back to the DSP?

 

[Ratchey]

Awesome, thanks.
Stupid question #1:
I have two RCA's coming from the stock sub and two coming from the leads I ran from the factory amp.
What to do?
Or could/should I tap the MOST inputs into the amp and run them back to the DSP?

I have no idea what type of controller/dsp you would use for MOST. It is a 2 way digital communication that reports back to the head unit and ECU on what is happening with the system. That is way above my paygrade.
As far as the RCA's, you could potentially take one channel from the front and one from the sub and run them to the amp. I imagine it could process the signals well enough. You could also Y the RCAs together and run one set into the left input and one in the right. Tha amp is going to combine them into a mono output.
There are also other types of processors with fewer channels then the 8 I have. You only need 4. That would be a better way to go. Or using one of the Epicenter DSPs, you would only need the sub out and it would likely give you the signal you are looking for.
Your desired output is a bit difficult as a sub is really only meant to be felt and not so much heard. (if that makes sense) It is a very omni-directional sound that bounces all over the vehicle and when you are trying to hear more mid-bass frequencies, the tonal quality becomes more muddied.

 

[tpatrickmc]

Thanks to OP and those contributing! I've got a 2014 LX with the LM system and I am adding a JL 12W6v3 and a JL RD500 amp. I'm having my shop do this install (begrudgingly, but it's the path of least resistance) and the current plan is to retain stock subwoofer function. This would retain that upper bass range that OP was missing, something I attribute to a JL 10" driver and appropriately sized box not being great at replication at the upper bass range. I'll keep you posted on how everything shakes out, where we tap the signal and if we use the MOST outputs. I don't have that detail yet. Also, as was said, there are products that help to recreate the lower frequencies that the stock LM sub (entire system likely) was probably not receiving...I'm talking the lowest lows. Thanks again all and I'll keep you updated on my build. Sub should arrive in the next week or two.

 

[tpatrickmc]

Thanks to OP and those contributing! I've got a 2014 LX with the LM system and I am adding a JL 12W6v3 and a JL RD500 amp. I'm having my shop do this install (begrudgingly, but it's the path of least resistance) and the current plan is to retain stock subwoofer function. This would retain that upper bass range that OP was missing, something I attribute to a JL 10" driver and appropriately sized box not being great at replication at the upper bass range. I'll keep you posted on how everything shakes out, where we tap the signal and if we use the MOST outputs. I don't have that detail yet. o, as was said, there are products that help to recreate the lower frequencies that the stock LM sub (entire system likely) was probably not receiving...I'm talking the lowest lows. Thanks again all and I'll keep you updated on my build. Sub should arrive in the next week or two.

Also, regarding the mid bass, what I mean is that the combination of the stock sub and stock sub signal was better at replication of that range and this ability was lost with the JL and maybe even the RF amp crossover point (though that seems to be a non-factor now). Seems like tapping the front speakers brought a higher dose of upper bass range for the aftermarket equipment to work with.