what good polisher/buffer for clear coat to get started with?

[e9999]

about to start working on cleaning up the 80 a bit. Needs a thorough buffing and maybe even claying. Haven't cleaned it and waxed it in a long time. I hate doing that stuff, even with a power buffer.

Right now I'm using a cheapo Craftsman buffer, one of those big 9" orbital 2 handed affairs that look like a wedding cake, not the kind that looks like a grinder. This thing is old, lost its foam padding and I only have run-of-the-mill terry cloth and fake wool pads. Surely I can get better.

I'd prefer not to ruin the finish. So, what kind of power buffer should I get to not mess things up too much assuming I do my part? Any type and size or speed range that is best to have? Don't want to spend hundreds for a pro gizmo of course, but you only get one OEM clear coat. And are there pads that are much better than the others?

TIA

 

[Squid60]

I use a porter cable 7152 (I think) random orbital buffer. It is variable speed and since it random orbital you have a lot less chance of burning the paint. They have 6 in pads and 4 inch with Velcro backing. The pads are from autogreek come in many different colors that correspond to different cutting ability all they way to no cut for final coats of wax. Just use corresponding polishes to get the desires effect you are looking for. I think autogeek also has video to show you how to polish you car. If the paint is very oxidized then you may need to look into wet sanding. Stacy David has a show on speed and he explains the entire, long, and messy process. Hope this helps.

 

[JCruse]

I started off with the PC, well worth the investment. And you must clay before putting a machine on the paint. a speck of grit can come loose and travel around and around with the pad leaving a spiral scratch across the panel. Besides if your car/truck hasn't been clayed before you won't believe the filth that will come off on it. The first car I clayed was a new to me VW that I had just gotten and after the first few swipes I realized that the plain grey paint was in fact metallic grey paint! You could not see the metal flake underneath 7 years of grime.

I went to Autogeek and bought one of their kits - a porter cable DA polisher (foolproof for the beginning fool) plus an assortment of the most useful pads. I recommend the 5-1/2" pads which work better than the 6-1/2".

There are two polishes made by Meguiars that are about all anyone on a budget would need - Meg's #105 and #205. Heavy and light. Do those, put on a good sealant-wax like wolfgang deep gloss paint sealant or Pinnacle liquid souveran and you won't believe the feel and shine you can get out of an old truck.

They also have plenty of how-to videos and forum support. This is how I learned to detail and maintain our now three cars, including my new 80 which looks almost new.

I even used Forever Black to the running boards, rubber trim, and even rain gutters black again. This alone goes a long way to making any car look new.


I got a lake country CCM orange cutting pad, a white light cutting pad, and a blue final finishing pad for applying wax. These would correspond to the #105, 205, and wax, respectively.

Yes it'll cost a couple hundred bucks but it'll do the job really well and last forever and keep all your cars like new.



Here's a perfect starter kit for $169:




http://www.autogeek.net/porter-cable-pad-kit.html



$32 cheaper than buying separately.












.

 

[JCruse]

I just saw yesterday that Advanced Auto sells Meguiars 105 and 205 in the store. It's not with the regular waxes and stuff on the wall though, it's in a case down one of the isles for some reason. By the paint I think. Must be the Pro section. lol

 

[Old Cruiser]

If you were into spending some money and wanted ease of use, longevity (mine have detailed 1000's) and ability to work in small tight places, then look into Cyclo's dual orbiter.

http://cyclotoolmakers.com/polishers.php

As for an easy to use product? simple- Griots Garage makes a numbered step system thats simple. Find the number that works the best to remove what you have and work backwards.

http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/machine+polish+collection.do

Ive been at it a long time and when all the guys went from wool pads to foam, I kept to my old style and my work never suffered the burn throughs that a foam pad on a conventional buffer could do in mere seconds (you called it a grinder style). If your willing to learn, wool is much more forgiving and if started at slow speed (1000 rpm's) you could make what a polisher would take 10 minutes to do- done in about 30 seconds with a heat leveling compound.

Here is one of the vehicles I did recently at my house to help a buddy out, 2007 FJ Cruiser with scratches that had scratches- took 6 hours but in the end came out great.

-OC

 

[e9999]

that is impressive.
But I'm no pro and likely won't use the thing very often so I'll have to stick to a medium-level tool I think.
The PC7424 does indeed seem to be on many people's lists. May do that then.
Unless somebody knows a better value one?

 

[JCruse]

that is impressive.
But I'm no pro and likely won't use the thing very often so I'll have to stick to a medium-level tool I think.
The PC7424 does indeed seem to be on many people's lists. May do that then.
Unless somebody knows a better value one?

The PC is on sale now for $25 bucks off at Autogeek. Making it $125.

 

[e9999]

The PC is on sale now for $25 bucks off at Autogeek. Making it $125.

I just saw the 7424XP at HD online for $119 with free shipping (and potentially easier warranty service or returns?). There are also some reconditioned out there for $99.

May just do it and have a decent tool to work with. But is it one of those things where you have to buy new expensive pads all the time to be safe about the finish and that ends up being the main expense? Seems like the ones I've used in the past (with cheapo machines) would get clogged or dirty very quickly.

and at the risk of asking a(nother) silly question, is there something equivalent to claying that can done with a buffer like this one rather than by hand - the dang 80 is a lot of real estate...?


FWIW I'll add for context that I once had some scratches on the hood of my car because of a branch that fell on it. Had a pro body shop polish it off, thinking it was safer. And it promptly was obvious after that that they had completely burned the coat and paint while buffing it. I then had the hood repainted by a pro body shop, think it was safer. And a few years later the clear started to peel off and the paint to crack. After that it was downhill all the way. So, I'm thinking power buffing and polishing is not as obvious as one might think, and potentially risky.

 

[techbytes]

Hi,
I use the vista-g polish to coat my bike but it is not look good can you please tell me where can i get a good polish to over come the scratches in my bike .

 

[Jetboy]

I've had great success with the Harbor Freight variable speed polisher. That plus 3m pads, and a set of polishing compounds works great. It's not idiot proof though. I've done it before with air powered high speed buffers. There's a bit of learning as far as how aggressive you can get and how much you can take off before causing damage. OTOH it cuts a lot faster than an RO and if you have a lot of deep scratching to remove it's the way to go IMO. Double edged sword. If you just to polish a pretty good surface, the RO might be a better choice.

Oh, and make sure you use new polishing pads with each different grit of compound. And clearly mark each pad so you can use them in the future.

 

[e9999]

I've had great success with the Harbor Freight variable speed polisher. That plus 3m pads, and a set of polishing compounds works great. It's not idiot proof though. I've done it before with air powered high speed buffers. There's a bit of learning as far as how aggressive you can get and how much you can take off before causing damage. OTOH it cuts a lot faster than an RO and if you have a lot of deep scratching to remove it's the way to go IMO. Double edged sword. If you just to polish a pretty good surface, the RO might be a better choice.

Oh, and make sure you use new polishing pads with each different grit of compound. And clearly mark each pad so you can use them in the future.

interestingly, the 6" RO DA variable speed harbor freight polisher is highly reviewed -unlike many of their other polishers- and is favorably compared to the porter cable 7424 in several reviews. May well be one of their rare very good tools and is tempting. Only $64 now online before the usual 20% coupon. OTOH, some youtube reviews suggest that the inexpensive HF foam pads are not well size-matched to the DA backing plate which is really 5 3/4" diam and because of that get chewed up fast.

So maybe that RO with better pads?

 

[JCruse]

I just saw the 7424XP at HD online for $119 with free shipping (and potentially easier warranty service or returns?). There are also some reconditioned out there for $99.

May just do it and have a decent tool to work with. But is it one of those things where you have to buy new expensive pads all the time to be safe about the finish and that ends up being the main expense? Seems like the ones I've used in the past (with cheapo machines) would get clogged or dirty very quickly.

and at the risk of asking a(nother) silly question, is there something equivalent to claying that can done with a buffer like this one rather than by hand - the dang 80 is a lot of real estate...?


FWIW I'll add for context that I once had some scratches on the hood of my car because of a branch that fell on it. Had a pro body shop polish it off, thinking it was safer. And it promptly was obvious after that that they had completely burned the coat and paint while buffing it. I then had the hood repainted by a pro body shop, think it was safer. And a few years later the clear started to peel off and the paint to crack. After that it was downhill all the way. So, I'm thinking power buffing and polishing is not as obvious as one might think, and potentially risky.

I've had the same pads for several years. Since I bought the machine back in '07 or 8, and they're all still good. I only buy a new one if I need it to do something the others cant. Like when I got the LC the paint on the hood was so bad I needed a very aggressive pad to deal with it. I had never needed one that stiff (Lake Country CCM yellow) since I never had a car with paint that bad. But now that I have it it's in my arsenal and will stay there for a long time.


You can't clay with a buffer since you're trying to get out bits of matter that would scratch circles if picked up by a polisher.
Claying doesn't take that long. It's like waxing a car by hand. You only need to wipe across each area of paint once being careful to overlap a bit. I think the 80 took me a half hour or so. They also make clay like pads that don't need to be constantly kneaded and turned over. You just dunk it in a bucket of water to rinse it off after each panel. Real clay is more thorough but this is all you need to do before polishing since you don't need to create a show car.
Trust me, one of the clay methods, one coarse polish (205), one fine polish(105), and a good wax (Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant) and stand back!

If your truck is light colored or if you don't care that much you can skip the 105 and go straight to wax.

Just remember, the 205 is VERY FAST. It dries up in like two minutes, but that's because it's usually DONE by then having taken off all or most of the oxidation. Don't keep polishing after it's dry. It won't do any good. Just wipe it off and inspect. If there's still haze reapply and go for another 2 min. That should do it.



Oh, one of the clay alternative pads:


http://www.autogeek.net/optimum-opti-eraser-aggressive.html






.

 

[e9999]

thanks. There are tons of vids out there about the RO buffers, the 7424 in particular. They do seem very newbie-friendly, unlike the circular buffers... Good vids about claying too. Yea for Youtube!

 

[JCruse]

thanks. There are tons of vids out there about the RO buffers, the 7424 in particular. They do seem very newbie-friendly, unlike the circular buffers... Good vids about claying too. Yea for Youtube!

I hadn't so much as hand waxed one of my cars in a couple decades when I got the PC. After reading on autogeek's forum and autopia's forum, as well as watching their beginners how-to video's, I took a new to me VW and transformed it from a flat grey dull wart to a shiny silvery-grey metallic jewel in a weekend. Detailing is something that generally requires patience, of which I have none. But then I was hooked! With an arsenal of a few high end Menzerna polishes and good quality waxes I went looking for cars to polish. LOL

 

[e9999]

Well, I did some research on this. And thanks for the help above.


Here is what I concluded if that helps somebody - for great results potential by those with little or no experience:

- must go with a random orbit (or possibly true DA but not necessary) if a Noob. Do not go for rotary or you're doomed!

- don't go for the super cheap "grinder" no-name ones or the really big wedding cake affairs if you want to do a good job/enjoy the job/resell at little loss.

- you can't go wrong with the PC 7424XP. It's by far the most popular one out there. Lots of used ones on ebay but they go for not too far from what you can get a new one for if you search smartly for the latter. You can find it for $120 (+tx) delivered new, although most out there are sold for about $140 or so. They seem to go for around $90 or $100 used on ebay. So, a good buy for later resale. But note that you probably want the newer XP not the older 7424 which is less powerful. Note also that I've read that the OEM backing plate/pad that comes with it is not the velcro type (not 100% sure on this) so you may need to buy a new one for serious work. There are several variations that are sold for sanding. Seems like the speed and all are generally the same or similar so try and look under sanders also for a deal, but again several generations of them. Do note that the backing plates for sanding may not be the same (typically adhesive type I think) so keep that in mind if you get a sander. It's also reported that the counterweight on the 24xp is too light for a good 6" plate, but the heavier weights can be found cheap.

- there are other machines out there in the same general class: Griot's, Meguiars etc. A bit more expensive but less well-known. All of those have potential reaching into the pro shop but are also OK to use for amateurs (unlike the rotary evil affairs).

- there are also some more obscure ones -and hopefully but not obviously higher end- more in the $300 range but I think not relevant for amateurs.

- Seems like all machines in the 7424XP class have interchangeable accessories and there is a lot of them out there. Lego system.

- In the 7424XP class, out of the 3 most popular (PC, Meguiars, Griot), the Griot is advertised as more powerful than the PC, 7A vs 4.5A. That could well make a difference for demanding jobs. The Griot also boasts a lifetime warranty and seem to have excellent support. I don't know much about the Meguiars.


Well, I was all set to buy the PC because the Griot and Meguiar are more expensive and less common on resale. Until I found a Griot 6" that had been somehow overlooked on ebay and I snatched it for a great price. I also like the extra power a lot. (Moah powah... !) (Also 3 generations of that one, you want the 2d or 3rd - more power)

Now to buy pads, polishes and the like. A bewildering variety out there and most not cheap... But the results I've seen in videos are stunning.

Some fun acomin'.....

 

[e9999]

wow, got the Griot polisher in. Have not used it yet on the truck but just handling it, that is one fine and sturdy piece of equipment. You can feel the powah too! Comes with spare brushes and a lifetime (limited?) warranty too. Nice.

I imagine the PC is equally nice. Good pieces of kit both, no doubt. (I do like the overhead handle on the Griot better than the side handle of the PC though.)


(one bit of info on the odd chance that it will save somebody a heartache: The "Fine hand polish" Griot sells is too strong to use with the polisher. Which makes perfect sense in retrospect given the high speed of the machine. But is also a bit counterintuitive and could also easily be misinterpreted. Glad I double-checked.)

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Dont forget to clay bar first

 

[e9999]

Dont forget to clay bar first

Nope. In the plans.
Still have to buy a whole bunch of stuff to go with the machine too. 25 different polishes, 37 foam pads, etc etc... There are goodies out there to choose from, I tellya...