welder!? (1 Viewer)

[chicago]

Hey all,
Getting to a point I can start doing some of the "fun" mods to the rig...Front and rear bumper...cut rear quarters and build some sliders etc...
What is a good welder to get and what should I be looking for?
Looking for a mig of some sort!

What can ya tell me?

Thanks,

Chicago

 

[AZkick-n40]

I have a Miller 175 - runs on 220, but will do everything that I want it to do. Some people have said that they like the smaller millers (MM135 IIRC) for sheet metal work.

I'd just say to get more than just a flux core and buy the best machine that you can.

I took a class at the local CC which really helped out.

There has been quite a few discussions on this as well on here - so search around a bit

HTH,

Brian

 

[Franky40]

I have been using a little Hobart 135 wire feed for years, with the Argon gas mix. I have done bumpers, sliders, roll cages, and even alittle sheetmetal. It runs on regular house current so it makes it quite convenient. If I remember right it is not reccomended for more than 1/4" thick steel.

 

[chicago]

Thanks for the input gents...Ive got places all over town that are willing to let me pillage their scrap piles, I just have to get the welder now...Its kind of a big purchase, and I want to get a relatively good one the first time so I dont have to make the same investment twice!

Chicago

 

[VETTE60]

lincoln power mig 215 here. very nice and plenty powerfull for more than i need. they run about $1200 bucks but it is well worth it. flux is great, but not clean. you can convert some smaller units to shielded gas welders, but they have significantly less thickness ability then, that is one reason to go bigger the first time, unless all you need is smaller stuff.

 

[chicago]

Sounds as if the Miller is the way to go for versitility...Damn, 1200 clams is a lot of dough!
Ive been looking at one of those Lincoln weld pack deals, but Im now re thinking this based on the input and the search.

Thanks,

Chicago

 

[honk]

Sounds as if the Miller is the way to go for versitility...Damn, 1200 clams is a lot of dough!
Ive been looking at one of those Lincoln weld pack deals, but Im now re thinking this based on the input and the search.

Thanks,

Chicago

You're talking about the Millermatic 210? (It hasn't been mentioned in this thread is why I ask)

It's a nice welder with enough power to do almost anything you might want on a cruiser. Nice old school simple operation and very durable. One of the last chances to avoid having questionable worth electronics to fail and require replacement of very expensive IC boards. If I'm beginning to sound like I might have one it's because I do.

One thing that you have to consider when looking to choose a welder is the amount of power it needs to operate at it's max output. Some will put a big strain on some house's supply. The 210 draws 42 amps at full rated output. You might never need to run it that hot but you should know about it for choosing how to wire your place to use the welder.

 

[VETTE60]

Sounds as if the Miller is the way to go for versitility...Damn, 1200 clams is a lot of dough!
Ive been looking at one of those Lincoln weld pack deals, but Im now re thinking this based on the input and the search.

Thanks,

Chicago

actually i said lincoln 215, but the miller is good too. the things i like about the lincoln are that the consumables are cheaper, and the lincoln also has a 120v outlet on the machine for runnning other things like drinders...etc, and a nice built in storage compartment.

 

[chicago]

actually i said lincoln 215, but the miller is good too. the things i like about the lincoln are that the consumables are cheaper, and the lincoln also has a 120v outlet on the machine for runnning other things like drinders...etc, and a nice built in storage compartment.

OPPS!!! my bad...
In all actuality...when doing any type of fab work on cruisers, what is the thickest gauge metal I can expect to use?
As mentioned, I saw the lincoln weld pack and it ran around 500.00 and it would weld up to 5/16 in steel...Is this too light duty for doing work on LC's?

Chicago

 

[honk]

OPPS!!! my bad...
In all actuality...when doing any type of fab work on cruisers, what is the thickest gauge metal I can expect to use?
As mentioned, I saw the lincoln weld pack and it ran around 500.00 and it would weld up to 5/16 in steel...Is this too light duty for doing work on LC's?

Chicago

One of the few problems that I have with Lincoln (or whoever it is that markets the "WeldPak" line that carries a Lincoln name) is the inflated claims made as to the thickness of steel that the products can weld.

I guess maybe it goes into the realm of definition of terms, particularly the word "weld". Without going beyond the above so as to avoid a possible free for all of opinion I'll say that the thickest steel that I feel comfortable to weld with my Millermatic 210 welder is carefully prepared 1/4" plate in a single pass.

Aren't those weldPak sets limited to 100 or at most 125 amp claimed maximum (as opposed to rated) output? I have one that's called a WeldPak 100, and best I recall the documentation for it lists a max welding power of 90 amps. Even with fluxcore wiire I wouldn't trust a weld I'd made joining 1/4" plate unless I'd done such things as hold the gun burning in one spot for three or four times the normal time in a pass, ground bevels on both sides of each piece of the work, and preheated the steel with a torch before starting the weld. Maybe I'm overcautious, after all I think I remember seeing a setting in that instruction manual for welding 3/8" steel (!), but I like welds to hold.

Where does this rant put the $500. 5/16" welder?


(BTW - I took that little welder as part payment once. I use it once in a while for some little thing, keeping it plugged into the wall on one of my workbenches just because it's here. Kinda' handy that way, but it's no bumper welder)

 

[srplus]

consider checking miller's site re: choosing a welder

from this url: http://www.millerwelds.com/education/articles/story18.html

"Duty cycle is the number of minutes out of a 10-minute cycle a welder can operate. For example, the Millermatic 210 MIG unit can deliver 160 amps of power at a 60 percent duty cycle. It can weld continuously at 160 amps for six minutes, and then must cool down during the remaining four minutes to prevent overheating.

Next, consider that thin metals require less amperage and thicker metals require more amperage. For example, to MIG weld 18 gauge steel in a single pass takes roughly 70 amps, where welding 1/4 in. steel in a single pass requires roughly 180 amps.

The phrase in a single pass is the key, because multiple passes can be made to weld thicker material. However, this takes more time, so you may exceed the machine's duty cycle and spend more time waiting than welding."

the biggest thing that is forgotten is: what is the actual duty cycle of the welder you are going to buy? cheap welders = low duty cycles = lots of waiting for welding machine.

get the baddest welder you can afford... if something is too thick for you to weld then just tack it in place and roll down to your local welding shop and let them really burn it on. most of the small stuff that you won't be able to do with a smaller welding unit can be done at the local welders for almost a minimum shop fee... if they are doing the mock ups, measuring, cutting, tacking on, re-measuring, etc. expect your cost to rise geometrically. most of the small shops are happy to help you out.

Miller is an excellent brand with support and great product availability. Miller also just acquired Hobart. the biggest 110V Hobart welder new can handle most of the stuff you will do as long as you are not going crazy, expecting it to be a full blown commercial rig. most of the parts are interchangeable with the Miller of similar size and the Hobart will be about 10% cheaper than the Miller... go to your welding supply house and talk to those guys to fine tune in your decision. They are professionals in the field. if you don't buy the welder from them, at least make sure they stock the consumables you will need for your machine. they might even have a reconditioned for sale for a reasonable price and you won’t have to pay some of eBay's retailers inflated shipping charges. If they don’t have one that was traded in or returned you can at least check their bulletin board for machines for sale. use ALL of the resources available to you. your junior college prolly has a course that you can take to do something larger as your shop project.

 

[honk]

You've amplified my point perfectly, srplus. I wanted to avoid spewing the technical jargon as I'm plenty boring enough without doing that, but the limitation of my 210 to 1/4" steel as opposed to the weldpak claim of 5/16" capability is a discrepancy that I thought had better be brought forth considering 'chicago's' last post.

When a person who is new to welding is advised to spend what can seem to be extraordinary amounts of money and yet sees for him or herself specifications from manufacturers which indicate that much less money will do as much or more than will ever be needed to do there's a big disapointment in the making, at best, or a catastophic equipment failure pending, at the worst.

 

[srplus]

thanx honk... in the RW a 40% down time when billing at $125 /hr is unacceptable. i'm not sure but i think to get 180 amps out of a 210 Millermatic the duty cycle in reality is probably between 30 to 40% when you start using the machine and getting worse and worse as you continue to weld and cycle down to let the machine cool. just a guess though.

in the sign business we use welders all the time when installing signs... never found a welder that was TOO big or a set of torches that were TOO good. have found situations where amperage was set too high or low, though. nothing like trying to make a nice looking cut with a cheap POS set of torches or gauges... usually the cheaper stuff is just that - marginal at best, even for everyday use. for home use a 220/240 is better, but having the right socket in the right place with sufficient amperage is usually the problem. And DON’T try to run that 110 welder on the same extension cord you light the xmas tree with. TIG is prolly the most adaptable for what this fellow wants since it welds so easily such a wide variety of materials. the larger 110 will do most of what is needed for body work and light bumper building with some wait times involved.

wouldn't dream of trying to weld on huge D Rings with a 110. hammers are great. BF sledge hammers are great. ball peen hammers are great. tack hammers are great. they all could prolly be used to do anything but for some applications the tool has to match the job. Unless truly stoopid no one would try to drive a tack with a sledge hammer (although I did use a baby sledge once when I didn’t have anything else available).

when buying a welder: DON"T throw your money away on crap just because it is cheap... that is why it's cheap. i used to have a guy that worked for me that would weld in body panels with a torch and a coat hanger. i never could, or would. doesn't mean it should be done just because it can.

 

[rusty_tlc]

Re:what is the thickest material you can expect to weld on a cruiser.
I haven't had to weld anything over 1/4". That was adding a cross member.
I'm using a Hobart Handler 135 (same as the miller matic 135). with "Golden Gas" whatever the heck that is.

RE: Duty cycle
Realisticly the hobby welder will probably not weld for 6 minutes with out a break. At least I don't think I ever have.

RE:cost
The first round of mods I did ten years ago cost about ten to one labor to materials.
This round has been more like one to ten, there have been a couple of things I had done by a pro. Like my roll cage. If your going to build the rig anyway buying a welder will save a lot of money in the long run.

I can't wait to see what you do with your 62.

 

[JRFJ4-]

Lincoln 175

I have a Lincoln 175. I like it alot for the money. About 600 bucks, and will do everything I want. If it gets to thick, I've always got my Lincoln 225 stick welder. A little over $800.00 invested in both.


JR

 

[alia176]

Millermatic 210 with Spoolgun. Good duty cycle, can handle thick metals and easy to use Spool gun. Buy it once then give it to the grand kids or get buried with it!

 

[Ironmanfj45]

x2 Millmatic 210

 

[honk]

Rusty,

I agree about long welds. If I have to run a bead for 6 minutes my arm will know it did something and I hate to think of what kind of shapes the work might take with a constant application of heat for that long. So I doubt many of us homeshop typpes will strain the duty cycle all that often.

I like the 175 sized welders. Both Miller and Lincoln versions have 30% duty cycles at 130 amps out, so they're not really 175's now are they? I think that they could do most things around here though. I think it NOW, but bought more welder THEN).

The 175 machines are a good place to show how misleading promotionals can lead us down a wrong path. Miller's promotional material says this about theirs:

"All-in-one wire welding package welds 24 gauge - 1/4 in (0.8 - 6.4 mm) mild steel"

While Lincoln's promo material says this:

"MIG weld on mild steel as thin as 24 gauge with .025" SuperArc™ L-56 wire. Flux-cored wire weld up to 5/16" mild steel plate with Innershield® NR®-211-MP and up to 1/2" plate with .045" Innershield NR-212"

Both quotes are from the respective websites, go see for yourself.

Now, a trained welder (No, I'm NOT a trained welder) will be able to see what's going on wiith that, but an excited kid looking to get into welding up all of the neat things for his truck might not. That kid is going to take one look at the Lincoln info, Lincoln hopes, and buy the Lincoln because it's clearly able to weld a lot better than the Miller will. Right? Clearly.

But WHAT is all that Lincoln gobbledygook?? You might as well call it a pack of lies designed to suck in a neophyte, but it isn't really b.s. entirely. A trained welder equipped with the item numbers specified probably COULD get that little welder to weld thickness as claimed but he won't be doing it without careful prep and more than one pass, not to mention a very highly developed skillset. Nevermind that the SP-175 welder does not come equipped to run .045" wire. Nevermind that the specified Lincoln fluxcore wire is some specialized, read expensive, stuff and again, the welder does not come with an "Innershield® NR®-211-MP" to carry the wire to the torch. Lincoln is content to let you find out about these things AFTER you've bought their welder.

This is what I meant above about questionable advertizing and as you see it gets me riled up because not all that long ago I was in the market for welders and trying to make those big money decisions based on every bit of info I could find and subject to my best estimation of how much welding power I would, or might, eventually need. I had used a torch pretty regularly over ten years of one career, and also used a stick welder as needed during that time so I knew just enough to realize how little I knew.

It's not an easy place to be if you don't have the advantage of some kind of welding background. Lots of ideas and projects in mind but not wanting to spend thousands of dollars to do them. That's why you'll see me recommend finding a short welding course. You don't have to enroll in a professional preparation for work as a welder, there are lots of adult ed, junior and high school afterhours courses set up in communities all over the country that are there just for people who want to learn to do hobby welding. You won't likely learn much welding in a few weeks of once or twice a week two hour blocks, but you'll meet other people in your same boat and can bounce this kind of stuff around while you try out many kinds of metal joining at little or no cost to you. It's time well spent, believe me.

Boy, I called the post above a rant? Silly me.

 

[alia176]

Agree on the welding course; its a great way to learn about welding and what kinds of machines will work work for you. Also, the schools can get their students discounts on welders.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

I just bought a millermatic DVI that I LOVE. It is not quite as powerful as the 210 but is in the same cabinet and claims it can do the same thickness. Duty range slightly lowered. it is the smallest machine they make in the big cabinet. I believe it but because I have literally burned right through 1/4" joints where I have had to turn it down. It also has a neat setting where you can knock it down to 110 amp and power it that way with regular household cord for thinner stuff. Very high quality. Best part, about $1050 retail. So nearly the power of the 210 and more than the 175, but still has the thin ability to do stuff a 135 machine can do.. I was using a 135 machine with flux core for too long. It worked but I will never do that again after finally getting a good powerful welder.. Also they can't seem to keep the DVI machines on the shelf, for what its worth.. One day they'd have three in stock and the next day they would be gone. Seems like they are popular. I think that's the best bang for the buck personally..