welder!? (1 Viewer)

[dieselcruiserhead]

You've amplified my point perfectly, srplus. I wanted to avoid spewing the technical jargon as I'm plenty boring enough without doing that, but the limitation of my 210 to 1/4" steel as opposed to the weldpak claim of 5/16" capability is a discrepancy that I thought had better be brought forth considering 'chicago's' last post.

When a person who is new to welding is advised to spend what can seem to be extraordinary amounts of money and yet sees for him or herself specifications from manufacturers which indicate that much less money will do as much or more than will ever be needed to do there's a big disapointment in the making, at best, or a catastophic equipment failure pending, at the worst.

For what its worth I have a good power outlet and good fat 12/3 extension cord (45 feet long) and I think 5/16ths is very doable in a single pass with a 210 machine, just as advertised. The Miller Matics are good powerful machines above 175 in my opinion.. Even 175 seems to do the trick pretty well I think also...

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Question is does it lie with the consumer or with the seller. I again don't think those numbers are too inflated. they are talking about using a big fax .045 flux core wire with that maching... I believe it can probably do that thickness...

Rusty,

I agree about long welds. If I have to run a bead for 6 minutes my arm will know it did something and I hate to think of what kind of shapes the work might take with a constant application of heat for that long. So I doubt many of us homeshop typpes will strain the duty cycle all that often.

I like the 175 sized welders. Both Miller and Lincoln versions have 30% duty cycles at 130 amps out, so they're not really 175's now are they? I think that they could do most things around here though. I think it NOW, but bought more welder THEN).

The 175 machines are a good place to show how misleading promotionals can lead us down a wrong path. Miller's promotional material says this about theirs:

While Lincoln's promo material says this:


Both quotes are from the respective websites, go see for yourself.

Now, a trained welder (No, I'm NOT a trained welder) will be able to see what's going on wiith that, but an excited kid looking to get into welding up all of the neat things for his truck might not. That kid is going to take one look at the Lincoln info, Lincoln hopes, and buy the Lincoln because it's clearly able to weld a lot better than the Miller will. Right? Clearly.

But WHAT is all that Lincoln gobbledygook?? You might as well call it a pack of lies designed to suck in a neophyte, but it isn't really b.s. entirely. A trained welder equipped with the item numbers specified probably COULD get that little welder to weld thickness as claimed but he won't be doing it without careful prep and more than one pass, not to mention a very highly developed skillset. Nevermind that the SP-175 welder does not come equipped to run .045" wire. Nevermind that the specified Lincoln fluxcore wire is some specialized, read expensive, stuff and again, the welder does not come with an "Innershield® NR®-211-MP" to carry the wire to the torch. Lincoln is content to let you find out about these things AFTER you've bought their welder.

This is what I meant above about questionable advertizing and as you see it gets me riled up because not all that long ago I was in the market for welders and trying to make those big money decisions based on every bit of info I could find and subject to my best estimation of how much welding power I would, or might, eventually need. I had used a torch pretty regularly over ten years of one career, and also used a stick welder as needed during that time so I knew just enough to realize how little I knew.

It's not an easy place to be if you don't have the advantage of some kind of welding background. Lots of ideas and projects in mind but not wanting to spend thousands of dollars to do them. That's why you'll see me recommend finding a short welding course. You don't have to enroll in a professional preparation for work as a welder, there are lots of adult ed, junior and high school afterhours courses set up in communities all over the country that are there just for people who want to learn to do hobby welding. You won't likely learn much welding in a few weeks of once or twice a week two hour blocks, but you'll meet other people in your same boat and can bounce this kind of stuff around while you try out many kinds of metal joining at little or no cost to you. It's time well spent, believe me.

Boy, I called the post above a rant? Silly me.

 

[Mace]

Funny, I have welded a TON of things with a little Lincoln weld pack...

Sliders, bumpers, springovers, rollcages, etc..

If it is really thick, I use the stick. But for almost anything you can do on a Lc a litle 110V will work.

The bigger machines are nice. Tehy make welding easier. BUt I tell you what, I will never give up the ability to throw a 110V welder in the truck and take it somewhere...

Another thing you might consider.
A AC/DC buzzbox and a readywelder. 1/2" plate is possible with that setup..

 

[rusty_tlc]

Hey Chicago.
Did you ever check to see if TMCC has welding classes?
I'd bet they would be at the Edison campus down the street from your house.

 

[Mace]

I know a couple of people that have taken classes at the TMCC campus..

Course, they suck at welding so....

 

[chicago]

Hey Fellas,
Thanks for all the input on the welders...This is a ton of info, that quite frankly...I dont understand much of...duty cycle? 30%, 60% etc.
Ive done SOME welding, but I never spent much time at it...Since I got my cruiser, Ive been wanting to explore many NEW things. Actually, my dad was/ is a welder, but he was a micro and heli arc welder for the tool and die industry, and doesnt know much about mig and stick for auto purposes...He says "get the bigger one."..."Thanks pops" .
Anyway, upon recommendation of the group, I did check into the community colleges, but they do not offer a class for the hobbiest, all they offer is for the trade classes which are mid day with a 2 hour lab at times Im working!
I really appreciate all the advice, and also the practical advice.
I was wondering if a little mig and a stick welder would be a good choice...
What I did gleen from this is...there is not much steel to weld greater than 1/4 in...but if you have the means....get a welder that can go bigger (as my dad would say.) Stick can be used for the heavy stuff, and the 110 can be used for MOST "hobby auto" jobs.

Thanks again for the info

Chicago

 

[chicago]

Funny, I have welded a TON of things with a little Lincoln weld pack...

Sliders, bumpers, springovers, rollcages, etc..

If it is really thick, I use the stick. But for almost anything you can do on a Lc a litle 110V will work.

The bigger machines are nice. Tehy make welding easier. BUt I tell you what, I will never give up the ability to throw a 110V welder in the truck and take it somewhere...

Another thing you might consider.
A AC/DC buzzbox and a readywelder. 1/2" plate is possible with that setup..

Hey Mace,

What are the "buzzbox/ ready welder?"

Chicago

 

[Mace]

Buzzbox is a lincoln stick welder.

Ready welder is a spool gun that you can take with you on the trail but also works at a at home welder fairly well.

 

[rusty_tlc]

I know a couple of people that have taken classes at the TMCC campus..

Course, they suck at welding so....

I took welding at CCCC and I suck at welding.

 

[rusty_tlc]

Hey Mace,

What are the "buzzbox/ ready welder?"

Chicago

The Club has a Ready Welder. So far we have fixed a broken Bronco that was blocking the trail, and Shawn tacked in his SBC motor mounts.
The consensus is they are great on the trail but not so good for a shop.

 

[Mace]

The Club has a Ready Welder. So far we have fixed a broken Bronco that was blocking the trail, and Shawn tacked in his SBC motor mounts.
The consensus is they are great on the trail but not so good for a shop.

It depends on how you use them. If you hook up two batteries in your shop they will suck. But if you use a DC welder to control the current, they actualy work quite well..

 

[rusty_tlc]

It depends on how you use them. If you hook up two batteries in your shop they will suck. But if you use a DC welder to control the current, they actualy work quite well..

I remember reading something like that on their web site. Sort of a wire feed adaptor for a stick welder?

 

[chicago]

I took welding at CCCC and I suck at welding.

CCCC?!
Is that Carson City Correctional Center!?


Chicago

 

[chicago]

Hey Mace...
I think I saw that "buzzbox" at Sears the other day for like 225 clams...
Im glad to know that is a good unit.

Chicago

 

[rusty_tlc]

CCCC?!
Is that Carson City Correctional Center!?


Chicago

Close, Clark County Community Collage. Down in Maces neck of the state.

 

[rusty_tlc]

Hey Mace...
I think I saw that "buzzbox" at Sears the other day for like 225 clams...
Im glad to know that is a good unit.

Chicago

What Mace was suggesting was combining a buzz box and a ready welder.
The buzz box would be the DC source for the ready welder instead of batteries.
Sounds like a good option if you want to get the ready welder for the trail anyway.

A 110 buzz box stick welder takes some skill to use well.

 

[chicago]

What Mace was suggesting was combining a buzz box and a ready welder.
The buzz box would be the DC source for the ready welder instead of batteries.
Sounds like a good option if you want to get the ready welder for the trail anyway.

A 110 buzz box stick welder takes some skill to use well.

How so? is it cuz of the length of the electrodes and less control you have as a result? That is what I remember of it when I used it WAAAAAYYY back in high school.
I have access to A LOT of steel scrap that I plan to use to my advantage...that'll really piss off the garbage collectors

See you tonight at the meeting.

Chicago

 

[rusty_tlc]

How so? is it cuz of the length of the electrodes and less control you have as a result? That is what I remember of it when I used it WAAAAAYYY back in high school.
I have access to A LOT of steel scrap that I plan to use to my advantage...that'll really piss off the garbage collectors

See you tonight at the meeting.

Chicago

I guess the big difference is how much easier it is to use a wire feed welder.

Lots of scrap steel huh? I still need a tire rack for my 40, we should talk.

See you tonight.

 

[chicago]

I guess the big difference is how much easier it is to use a wire feed welder.

Lots of scrap steel huh? I still need a tire rack for my 40, we should talk.

See you tonight.

Yeup, (scrap)
Some of our accounts are metal fab places, and they have BARRELS of scrap metal they said Id be welcome to...
Unfortunately, MOST of it is smaller pieces and doesnt seem to be "useable" for anything more than practicing welds.
If I do run into anything Ill definately let you know!
I think for starters, I might just go with the lincoln "weld pack" with the understanding that it wont do EVERYTHING, but will do what I need as a "shade tree" type of guy.

Chicago

 

[honk]

When I think "buzzbox" I think AC stick welder. An AC stick welder will NOT run a ReadyWelder, you need the AC/DC more expensive buzzbox stick welder and use the DC side for the readywelder. Be careful of that one if thinking about getting setup to do this as 90% of the Sears and other stick welders for sale everywhere are AC only and won't work for powering a ReadyWelder.

I have a readywelder. It's pretty neat if you've got a dual battery setup but the batteries have to be disconnected to run the welder without messing up the alternator. ReadyWelder is a VERY effective wirefeed welder when hooked up to THREE 12 volt batteries. It makes something above 300 amps that way.

I use Readywelder mostly for the rare occasion that I want to weld aluminum. It makes a pretty good spoolgun hooked up to the Miller 210 for the soft aluminum wire.