Welder & 220v outlet

[MBOffroading]

So I am planning on picking up a 220v welder from my work, since they are upgrading to all new Millers.

Currently I have a 220v outlet that the house came with, and I know most of the time it's for a dryer, but since I don't have an electric dryer, I want to use it with the welder.

I've done the testing on the outlet to verify it has power (I don't have the welder yet, so I couldn't test it with that).

Using my Multimeter, I set it to AC/DC and and proceeded to test the outlet. This outlet has 1 vertical slot, and 2 slanted slots. I test the vertical slot with a slanted one, and it was reading roughly ~110v, tested the other side, and it read ~110v. So I tested the 2 slanted slots and it read 0v, and according to my research, it should be ~240-250v

So after doing some research, it seems that I have a bad breaker, and it needs to be changed.

I'm looking for any advice from people that have tested 220v and I want to see if I am right.

 

[Pin_Head]

The 220V circuits in the US give 110V from each one of the hot leads to the neutral wire and 220V between the two hot wires. This is normal. Make sure the breaker capacity is enough for your welder or you will only be able to run it at partial capacity. I have a 50A breaker and I can only get about 200A out of my 250A welder before the breaker trips.

 

[MBOffroading]

That's what be been able to gather. I think my problem is that between the 2 hot wires, the meter reads 0.00v. As where 1 hot & 1 neutral reads 110v. It seems that something is not right.

 

[madinal]

Your breaker is in the wrong position. If you could see the back of your breaker panel you would see two energized plates that interweave. Each finger is two thin (110) breakers wide or one 220 breaker. Your dryer breaker is probably on the top of the row or an even number of thin slots down. Have an electrician rearrange the breakers so the 220 breaker crosses the two energized plates. It will then pick up 110 from each side. Then when you check you will have 220 at the plug.

 

[Brian in Oregon]

Your breaker is in the wrong position. If you could see the back of your breaker panel you would see two energized plates that interweave. Each finger is two thin (110) breakers wide or one 220 breaker. Your dryer breaker is probably on the top of the row or an even number of thin slots down. Have an electrician rearrange the breakers so the 220 breaker crosses the two energized plates. It will then pick up 110 from each side. Then when you check you will have 220 at the plug.

And if not, then it is possible the breaker itself is bad.

BTW, it is against code to have split breakers on a circuit without the toggles being joined together. The reason is if one is tripped the circuit is still live through the other breaker. Joining the toggles ensures when one trips they both trip. Some breakers have provisions for a pin to join the toggles. Others need to be replaced with the proper breaker.

 

[MBOffroading]

Your breaker is in the wrong position. If you could see the back of your breaker panel you would see two energized plates that interweave. Each finger is two thin (110) breakers wide or one 220 breaker. Your dryer breaker is probably on the top of the row or an even number of thin slots down. Have an electrician rearrange the breakers so the 220 breaker crosses the two energized plates. It will then pick up 110 from each side. Then when you check you will have 220 at the plug.

Currently in the panel, the 220v plug is wired to a breaker that has 2 - single 30a breakers. From talking with a few people knowledgeable in the field, it should be 1 double 30a breaker. I believe this is the problem.

My main goal was to find out if I had power to the 220v outlet, if it needs to be re-done, then I'll have it redone.

 

[-Spike-]

Yep, your two hot leads are coming from the same leg on the panel, so there is 0 potential between them.

 

[MBOffroading]

Yep, your two hot leads are coming from the same leg on the panel, so there is 0 potential between them.

So will replacing the 2 single 30a breakers with a single double breaker fix the issue? Or is it more than that?

If it's a simple $10 fix, it would save me time and more money.

 

[KLF]

You could just move one of the breakers to a position so it's on the other leg (or phase), then you'll get 220V on both hots. But, this is not really safe, for the reasons that BiO mentioned above. I had my big table saw wired at my previous house that way, wasn't big deal, but not really a good idea.

You're better off getting a new 2-pole breaker, popping that in so they are in adjacent positions in the panel. Breakers are pretty much universal, but I would try to match the same brand as your panel if you can. Should be less than $20.

30A is kinda minimal for a welder, depending on what model you end up with. You should check the size of the wire going from the panel to the device, you *might* be able to bump up to a 40A breaker, but if the wire is only 12ga you have to stick to 30A max. Sounds to me like you're have a NEMA 10-50R receptacle for the dryer, which is rated for up to 50A, but the wire is the most important part of the system. Remember the breaker needs to be the weakest part.

 

[MBOffroading]

You could just move one of the breakers to a position so it's on the other leg (or phase), then you'll get 220V on both hots. But, this is not really safe, for the reasons that BiO mentioned above. I had my big table saw wired at my previous house that way, wasn't big deal, but not really a good idea.

You're better off getting a new 2-pole breaker, popping that in so they are in adjacent positions in the panel. Breakers are pretty much universal, but I would try to match the same brand as your panel if you can. Should be less than $20.

30A is kinda minimal for a welder, depending on what model you end up with. You should check the size of the wire going from the panel to the device, you *might* be able to bump up to a 40A breaker, but if the wire is only 12ga you have to stick to 30A max. Sounds to me like you're have a NEMA 10-50R receptacle for the dryer, which is rated for up to 50A, but the wire is the most important part of the system. Remember the breaker needs to be the weakest part.

Basically what I did was look in the panel, and found an unused breaker, and I found out that the breaker that had the 220v outlet was only sitting on 1 leg. Luckily the breaker (unused) above the breaker that had the 220v wired into it was the empty one. Went to Home Depot and picked up a new double 50a breaker, got it installed and tested it, reads perfect on the meter.

The wire is pretty thick, about 4-6 gauge, so it should be plenty. The welder I'm getting is the Millermatic 211 Auto-Set. I know the plugs are different, but at least I know I have 220v at the wall now.

 

[KLF]

I have that same exact welder, I absolutely love it. I have mine on a 40A breaker.

I did some sheetmetal work a couple weeks ago, and I actually think it works a little better down on 120V with 0.023 wire, working with 22 ga sheetmetal. Less prone to burn through. YMMV.

 

[Brian in Oregon]

If the panel is in the garage, the best solution might be to just add a new 50 amp breaker and wire it to an outlet that matches the power cord that comes with the welder.

You may or may not have to get an electrical permit from your city or county for this.

 

[618Henrik]

Something like this make me thankfull to live in Europe.
All the standard household sockets are 230V and most houses have at least one 400V socket.
the 400V are made of 3 phases, making it possible to use cables that are a lot thinner since the breaker for a large welder only have to be 16amp.

(no bashing, jusf for info)

 

[madinal]

Glad I could help, the next step is to switch out the outlet. Make sure the breaker is off and test the circuit before you change the outlet. You could also change the plug on the welder. I'm not sure if it is replaceable or not but it's your call which you change.

 

[fj40charles]

If the panel is in the garage, the best solution might be to just add a new 50 amp breaker and wire it to an outlet that matches the power cord that comes with the welder.

You may or may not have to get an electrical permit from your city or county for this.

Adding additional circuits in the garage does not get any easier than this scenario. Given a choice, I'd run #6 wire and use a smaller breaker your welder calls for. Your little Millermatic 211 welder requires a 25 amp breaker at 230v.

Change out the larger breaker at later time when/if you need more amperage.

Input power cords on most welders are undersized for amount of current the welder may need at max output. Not really an issue since you're dealing with 6 feet of cord and the fact that you're probably never going to run your welder at 100% duty cycle at full output in a residential setting with single phase power.

Manual says the minimum input wire gauge on the MM 211 is 14 gauge.

 

[fj40charles]

Glad I could help, the next step is to switch out the outlet. Make sure the breaker is off and test the circuit before you change the outlet. You could also change the plug on the welder. I'm not sure if it is replaceable or not but it's your call which you change.

I'd make an adapter or extension cord with proper plug/receptacle before replacing the 6-50P plug on the welder.

 

[MBOffroading]

I plan on changing the wall plate to match the welder once I pick it up.

 

[Spook50]

I have that same exact welder, I absolutely love it. I have mine on a 40A breaker.

I did some sheetmetal work a couple weeks ago, and I actually think it works a little better down on 120V with 0.023 wire, working with 22 ga sheetmetal. Less prone to burn through. YMMV.

Ditto that. Mine was a birthday gift from my folks for my 30th, and I've already used it more than any other gift (whether tool or toy throughout my life) I've ever received. I've only used it on 120V so far, but will be adding two 50A 220V circuits to my shop when I rewire. I would much rather use it at 220V to weld my crossmember mounts into place when I do the H55 conversion, so getting that done is weighing on my getting the shop's electrical done in a timely manner.

Have yet to try sheet metal, but I've got some 16GA and 14GA scraps to practice on, and some customizing work on my Tuffy to see how well I pick it up.

 

[41magsnub]

I run a millermatic 212 autoset off of a 30A breaker and it has been just fine. Mine was easy, I added a new outlet mounted directly below the breaker box in the garage which was in the same corner of the garage I do the welding in. There is all of 18" of wire between the breaker and the outlet.