Vibration Issue - Not wheel balance

[iwashmycar]

An aftermarket CV can still be fine, but maybe not have enough grease to cushion....you never know what they come with or even how good it really is.

I think I have mentioned it in another thread, but I have a Mini that I loath, and it developed nasty vibration and sounded like a machine gun on the freeway. I thought it was the end, and had blown out the transfer case or something. As a test I opened up and regreased the CVs..... the vibration and noise nearly disappeared. Probably didn't fix it all the way because they were DRY and thus got a little beat to sh*t inside.

 

[gregnash]

What is your lift in the rear? I have a 3” rear lift and a minor vibration above 65mph which I used adjustable rear upper control arms to smooth right out. I stress minor.

Not really sure as the PO put it on but aside from the receipt (attached in my build thread) he really had no clue, or couldn't remember. It is an OME setup, PO THOUGHT it was a medium lift but didn't know beside that. I have not done any measurements to confirm what lift is but I would believe it is 1.5" as it is not overly tall and easily houses the 285/75r16 tires he put on after.

Seeing as my upper ball joints are shot and nasty I am assuming that between that, hub flanges being worn, diff bushings being shot (normal) and the driveshafts being pretty dry, that all have some part in the vibration I have. I am slowly hitting things. Have a new upper cushion for the front diff, front bushing (one that is integrated as part of diff cover) coming to help with the clunk. Then will hit the hub flanges after that with new lock nuts, star washer, grease of spindle with proper pre load, etc. to see if that gets rid of. After that I will hit the upper and lower ball joints on both sides, lowers may be ok but if I am doing it I might as well just R&R all of them.

If the vibration under load between 50mph and 70mph is still there then I will have to go deeper down the rabbit hole to diagnose. Hell could be something with front shocks, torsion bars, rear control arms (upper and lowers looked original), driveshafts out of balance, etc.

Again, I believe (more now) that this was nothing more than a third vehicle toy for the PO I purchased from and thus was rarely used. When used, any of this stuff was probably just chalked up to the truck being "an older vehicle" and thus ignored for the most part. Seeing as I am using as a daily driver, and am a bit more anal retentive about stuff like this and maintaining my vehicles on my own, all this is like nails on a chalkboard for me.

 

[cmck]

Keep after it, I redid my steering rack and control arms and it rides awesome.

 

[gregnash]

Keep after it, I redid my steering rack and control arms and it rides awesome.

Yeah I am sure that is down the road too.. Think the steering rack was replaced once already (early 2000s if I remember correctly) from the paperwork I received. Will have to verify date and mileage. May just be time for new inner/outer TREs along with the other stuff.

And here I thought I was going to get to spend FUN money on stuff like a new stereo or new speakers or something like that here soon... But NOOOOOOOO... I gotta pick another project truck....

 

[Poncherelli]

I’m asking about balancing because most shops will just balance and get it close enough to “OK” but never tell you things like one wheel took a lot of weights, etc.

Even without a road force you can ask how much weight the wheels took and if you’re over 4oz or so it will bounce no matter what. We have to remember on these trucks with 16” rims or larger tires that there is a lot of rubber so out of balance issues are compounded. It pays sometimes to fix the cheapest solution for sure before looking for more expensive solutions. On these older vehicles you throw out tons of money changing parts just chasing a wobble or shake. Also, most shops in my experience will see a 20 year old truck and just tell you point blank that lets need changing without truly looking at them to see if they are still mechanically sound.

Get a balancing somewhere where you can see the tech’s screen on the balancing machine and ask how much weights each took.

might find a $60 solution to your issue

 

[gregnash]

I’m asking about balancing because most shops will just balance and get it close enough to “OK” but never tell you things like one wheel took a lot of weights, etc.

Even without a road force you can ask how much weight the wheels took and if you’re over 4oz or so it will bounce no matter what. We have to remember on these trucks with 16” rims or larger tires that there is a lot of rubber so out of balance issues are compounded. It pays sometimes to fix the cheapest solution for sure before looking for more expensive solutions. On these older vehicles you throw out tons of money changing parts just chasing a wobble or shake. Also, most shops in my experience will see a 20 year old truck and just tell you point blank that lets need changing without truly looking at them to see if they are still mechanically sound.

Get a balancing somewhere where you can see the tech’s screen on the balancing machine and ask how much weights each took.

might find a $60 solution to your issue

Very true and very good information. My local DiscountTire knows me from taking my 60 there for a couple sets of tires. I kinda have the office guys trained on what I like, they let me know if they had to add a bit of extra weight because one tire was out. Actually had them replace a tire under warranty due to a puncture that scraped the inside of the sidewall. The replacement tire took some extra weight and I told them no, if it did I didn't want it. They happily sent out for a new tire and grabbed me a good one. While most of the guys there are younger, they have been there since the shop opened about 5yrs ago and all have plenty of time under their belts from what I can tell. And I learned when I worked at a truck accessories place, about a lot of this stuff, hence why I am on the picky side.

For me, my vibration does not feel like your a-typical wheel balance vibration (normally felt in the steering wheel or butt) this is more of a groan vibration which leads me to believe it is more "gearing" related.
And just in case you don't believe me...
Both upper ball joints look like this....
Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

This is gap that is partially causing the R-D or N-D clunk
Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

Video of above clunk of diff bushing (almost like upper diff bushing is missing).


and here is my CV axle backlash/play...

98 LC Clunk

Talking with some of the other guys on here and looking through the different threads and doing my research, all these items play into the vibration and clunk. Not to mention that my slip yokes both took at least a dozen pumps before the slip yoke moved (per 2001LC's instructions) and both f/r diff u-joints took a handful of pumps of grease, which tells me things were on the dry side.

 

[PDPerry]

This is what I am hoping it is NOT. CV Axles on DS was replaced in 2018 but done by 4WheelParts whom, at least our local shop, I don't trust to do quality work. I do have quite a bit of play in mine (see vids in my build thread of axle shift when shifting from R-D) so I know that the hub flanges are worn. I question whether or not the preload and everything was done properly on the axle nuts and c-clips were gapped properly on the axles so when I do the hubs I will go through that stuff.

What was the CV replaced with?
If not OEM, that's where I'd look. Disconnect the front drive shaft and lock your transfer case. Then go for a spin.
If the vibration is gone, there's your culprit.

 

[liveoak]

driveshaft/s out of phase? have you ever greased your spindle needle bearings that the CV shaft rides in?

How to lubricate front axle shaft bushings?

forum.ih8mud.com

How-To Video DIY Spindle bearing greasing tool w/o touching wheel bearing preload

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[gregnash]

Ok to answer a couple questions with my particular situation..
- DS CV axle was replaced by PO and done by 4WheelParts in Las Vegas, NV. No idea what they used but highly doubt it was OEM. Have to double check to see if PS has ever been done.
- Driveshafts were greased by me according to instructions here on the forum. Took a bit of grease so they were on the dry side.
- Spindle bearings have not been greased by me but will be. I don't have much faith in 4WPs work so when I go through to replace the ball joints I will play with everything, new spindle nut washers/locks and will regrease bearings. Hub Flanges have play so will be replaced with OEM new along with new gaskets. The reason I plan to do the spindle nuts is because I highly doubt they were preload/breakaway tension done properly. I have checked bearings for play; lateral (3-9) has a very slight amount of play, vertical (12-6) has zero play, so I have a feeling the bearings are ok.

 

[whitef]

I had a different but possibly related vibration issue with my 1999 LX470.

The symptom was a high speed vibration (matched engine RPM) at highway speeds. You could kind of notice it at 65mph. A bit more at 70. By 80 you could feel it in the seat cushion and the truck had a maddening droning noise that rose above any radio volume.

We did a lot of troubleshooting, all of which did not fix the issue. This includes:

1. Making sure driveshafts were in phase.
2. Changing all rotating fluids to RedLine.
3. Redline transmission fluid and new filter.
4. Replacing transfer case.
5. Replace rear U-joints.
6. Send driveshaft with new U-joints to be balanced.
7. Grease driveline points liberally using quality synthetic grease.
8. Replacing both CV axles with OEM axles.
9. Disassembling rear differential, inspecting all gears. No issues found.
10. Removing all four tires to verify integrity of wheels.
11. Road force balance.
12. Remove all four brakes to check each wheel bearing. Reassemble with all new brake components.

What finally helped was listening on a lift. Remove rear shaft so only the front spins. Run to 80mph on the lift and listen. Re-install front shaft. Remove rear shaft. Run to 80mph and listen.

The conclusion after all that was that the vibration was coming from the rear. Since everything had been touched we finally ordered a brand new Toyota (Lexus) drive shaft assembly. This is the shaft, slide yoke and U-joints as one part number.

Fixed.

I have no idea why changing the U-joints and the balance didn't have the same result. Truck is smooth and quiet at all speeds now, so it's just "one of those things."

FWIW...if anyone is interested in a nice driveshaft assembly for off-roading or modest speeds, I have a hell of deal for you.

 

[gregnash]

After going through my paperwork that I got with the truck I am now leaning towards what @PDPerry and @iwashmycar said about the CV axles. Paperwork shows that both were replaced in 2018, PS in June and DS in July. The cost for the new axles was $105/ea. so they definitely were not Toyota or higher quality aftermarkets. Seeing as I have the other stuff that needs attention; hub flanges, front diff bushings, ball joints, it will just be one more thing to add to the list.

For the time being I may pull the band for the axle boots and pull them down to see what the grease looks like in the tulips. Maybe I can throw some more bearing grease in there as I am sure they are probably pretty dry and not heavily packed. Looks like I ended up giving up one mostly finished project truck for another one....*sigh*

 

[Sloth Cruiser]

My vibration issues was pretty easy to identify.....

 

[iwashmycar]

After going through my paperwork that I got with the truck I am now leaning towards what @PDPerry and @iwashmycar said about the CV axles. Paperwork shows that both were replaced in 2018, PS in June and DS in July. The cost for the new axles was $105/ea. so they definitely were not Toyota or higher quality aftermarkets. Seeing as I have the other stuff that needs attention; hub flanges, front diff bushings, ball joints, it will just be one more thing to add to the list.

For the time being I may pull the band for the axle boots and pull them down to see what the grease looks like in the tulips. Maybe I can throw some more bearing grease in there as I am sure they are probably pretty dry and not heavily packed. Looks like I ended up giving up one mostly finished project truck for another one....*sigh*

Probably wont be worth it to try and push the boot down. The bearings take up so much room in the tulip that it isnt easy to add a ton of grease with the axle installed, let alone sideways. Even then extra grease may just be a coverup for ill-fitting / manufactured CV axles. Its not much fun trying to reclamp them on the truck covered in grease either. I can probably assure you that a TON of grease will come out if you were to loosen the clamps anyway despite vibrations.

 

[gregnash]

Probably wont be worth it to try and push the boot down. The bearings take up so much room in the tulip that it isnt easy to add a ton of grease with the axle installed, let alone sideways. Even then extra grease may just be a coverup for ill-fitting / manufactured CV axles. Its not much fun trying to reclamp them on the truck covered in grease either. I can probably assure you that a TON of grease will come out if you were to loosen the clamps anyway despite vibrations.

Yeah kinda what I figured but was just a thought of a way to prolong the life of the axle and possibly get rid of the groan/vibration.