V8 Time! (1 Viewer)

[chicago]

Jack,
So if you had the choice between the 4L60/ or 700R, which would you use.
I wasnt aware that the 4L60 had the same gearing options as the 700R4.
What box would you use behind it?

Thanks.
This is some great info you got!

K

 

[CaliCruiser]

Dude, I want some V8 action too! You thinking of tearing into after the summer for a winter project?

Dylan

 

[locrwln1]

Jack,
So if you had the choice between the 4L60/ or 700R, which would you use.
I wasnt aware that the 4L60 had the same gearing options as the 700R4.
What box would you use behind it?

Thanks.
This is some great info you got!

K

Well the 4l60e has a lot of the upgrades you would do to a 700r4. Plus the ecu on the 5.3 is already set up to control the 4l60e. When you get it the ecu re-programmed you can't have it programmed to run a tranny or not.

For boxes, I would have to look into a Marlin Toy box. Reason being that you can get a real choice for low ranges, if Marlin will back it up behind a v8. If that won't work, gotta go with strength and for that you are talking about a 203 box. The issue for a crawler box won't be what will bolt up behind the tranny, it will be more of what will bolt up to the t-case you choose to run.

Are you go going to run a 60 case or something like an orion? What ever you do, I do recommend some type of crawler box in front of a t-case. Gearing options rule. I had a single 4:1 t-case in my Jeep and while it was awesome on the rocks, it was a pain for desert/snow wheeling. I had the stock range in my crawler box (2.28) and 4:1 in the t-case on my Runner and having the choices was awesome.

Jack

 

[rusty_tlc]

I agree with Jack on options, a straight 4:1 reduction would suck for a lot of trails. but 4:1 on the obstacles is freaking great. If you add a 2.5:1 box all of the sudden you have a lot of options. Dual cases was one of the best decisions I made on my build.

As far as help goes, I'm right around the corner, I have no problem coming around for a few hours or a few minutes. Not much experience with engine swaps but I'm pretty crafty at moving large heavy objects solo. I can also read schematics as long as there aren't a lot of big words.

 

[chicago]

Well the 4l60e has a lot of the upgrades you would do to a 700r4. Plus the ecu on the 5.3 is already set up to control the 4l60e. When you get it the ecu re-programmed you can't have it programmed to run a tranny or not.

For boxes, I would have to look into a Marlin Toy box. Reason being that you can get a real choice for low ranges, if Marlin will back it up behind a v8. If that won't work, gotta go with strength and for that you are talking about a 203 box. The issue for a crawler box won't be what will bolt up behind the tranny, it will be more of what will bolt up to the t-case you choose to run.

Are you go going to run a 60 case or something like an orion? What ever you do, I do recommend some type of crawler box in front of a t-case. Gearing options rule. I had a single 4:1 t-case in my Jeep and while it was awesome on the rocks, it was a pain for desert/snow wheeling. I had the stock range in my crawler box (2.28) and 4:1 in the t-case on my Runner and having the choices was awesome.

Jack

See, this is what is confusing me right now...
I was of the impression that a 2nd t case would go behind my 19 spline split case.
However, I was reading through the AA literature book, and I dont see ANY gearing options for the stock split case I have? The orion, and the rock box are both set to go with a 16 spline 60 series split t case.
Im a little confused about this. So, would you use a reduction box (like Rusty TLC has in lieu of the stock transfer case, or run it WITH the stock t case.
As far as the Marlin box goes, ive heard that they do not hold up well behind a V8...That is mud board "hear say" though.
This is a hang up for me, cuz I DO want the gearing options, as you stated above.
BTW, I swung by reno auto wreckers...1100.00 for a 5.3 with ECU and wiring, and 1350.00 for a 5.7. They said to figure around 700.00 for a tranny.
Jack, if you wouldnt mind, could you PM me your number? I might need some help and if its ok with you, Id like to contact you about some of this stuff.

K

 

[chicago]

Dude, I want some V8 action too! You thinking of tearing into after the summer for a winter project?

Dylan

Im gonna hit it when I get the parts to do it, so its gonna be a while...
Ideally, I would much prefer to start it in the summer months. Im FU*KING tired of freezing my ass off working in the winter.
However, it may work out that I wont be able to start it till winter, or maybe even next spring. It all depends on finances.
I WILL BE WHEELING this summer though as she sits...Tired old DOG of an engine as it is!

Speaking of...whens the BBCNN Rubicon run scheduled?


K

 

[chicago]

I agree with Jack on options, a straight 4:1 reduction would suck for a lot of trails. but 4:1 on the obstacles is freaking great. If you add a 2.5:1 box all of the sudden you have a lot of options. Dual cases was one of the best decisions I made on my build.

As far as help goes, I'm right around the corner, I have no problem coming around for a few hours or a few minutes. Not much experience with engine swaps but I'm pretty crafty at moving large heavy objects solo. I can also read schematics as long as there aren't a lot of big words.

So Rusty, are did you add to your stock t case with the reduction box you got? Its an orion, correct?
Youre rig and gearing is actually what got me started thinking about finding a way to get low gearing in my rig. Its truly an amazing sight to behold seeing it work.
You think 4:1 would be too low? Im not sure what you mean as far as the gearing you stated above?

K

 

[chicago]

I went back and re read Jack post above...
So if you run just the 4:1 box by itself youd be limited to that. But if you were to run the 4:1 and the stock t case you have the taller gears for crawling, and shorter gears for just...easy wheeling where you can cruise along at higher speeds...right?
Its emberrassing how little I know about the gearing.

I feel so ashamed!

K

 

[rusty_tlc]

So Rusty, are did you add to your stock t case with the reduction box you got? Its an orion, correct?
Youre rig and gearing is actually what got me started thinking about finding a way to get low gearing in my rig. Its truly an amazing sight to behold seeing it work.
You think 4:1 would be too low? Im not sure what you mean as far as the gearing you stated above?

K

4:1 IMHO is way to low for a lot of trails, like Barney Reily or just up in the hills behind our houses. The factory t-case gears are fine in that case. On trails like Rubicon you need lower gears for sections of the trail but a lot of it is like BR and the roads in the Virginia range. With the 4:1 Orion and the 2.48:1 toy box I can have the best of both worlds. Plus I can use both to get things moving really slow if needs be.
The Orion offers a very strong t-case, you've seen how heavy it is. You could also get away with a t-case saver on a stock T-case and a 4:1 toy box. That would give you about the same gearing I have. If you go with an SMA420 or 465 you have a world of options. I haven't priced it out but I would bet the manual trans with bell housing wouldn't run a lot more than an auto tranny. I grew up with manual transmissions so shifting is second nature for me, i don't even think about it, which translates to I'll take the highway fuel economy of a manual over an auto in exchange for the ease of an auto.

Any time you want to take the 40 for a drive let me know.

 

[rusty_tlc]

I went back and re read Jack post above...
So if you run just the 4:1 box by itself youd be limited to that. But if you were to run the 4:1 and the stock t case you have the taller gears for crawling, and shorter gears for just...easy wheeling where you can cruise along at higher speeds...right?
Its emberrassing how little I know about the gearing.

I feel so ashamed!

K

You need to take the 40 out for a drive.
Maybe next Saturday?

 

[locrwln1]

See, this is what is confusing me right now...
I was of the impression that a 2nd t case would go behind my 19 spline split case.
However, I was reading through the AA literature book, and I dont see ANY gearing options for the stock split case I have? The orion, and the rock box are both set to go with a 16 spline 60 series split t case.
Im a little confused about this. So, would you use a reduction box (like Rusty TLC has in lieu of the stock transfer case, or run it WITH the stock t case.
As far as the Marlin box goes, ive heard that they do not hold up well behind a V8...That is mud board "hear say" though.
This is a hang up for me, cuz I DO want the gearing options, as you stated above.
BTW, I swung by reno auto wreckers...1100.00 for a 5.3 with ECU and wiring, and 1350.00 for a 5.7. They said to figure around 700.00 for a tranny.
Jack, if you wouldnt mind, could you PM me your number? I might need some help and if its ok with you, Id like to contact you about some of this stuff.

K

The way "crawler boxes" work are they go between the tranny and t-case. The issue is, that you have to find a box that will hold up to a v8 and allow your t-case of choice to bolt up the crawler box.

I went back and re read Jack post above...
So if you run just the 4:1 box by itself youd be limited to that. But if you were to run the 4:1 and the stock t case you have the taller gears for crawling, and shorter gears for just...easy wheeling where you can cruise along at higher speeds...right?
Its emberrassing how little I know about the gearing.

I feel so ashamed!

K

Exactly. A 2ish low range works great for most wheeling. It just falls short for rockcrawling. That is where deeper gears shine. Now if you combine that stockish low range with a 4ish range, you can really slow everything down.

Jack

P.S. PM Sent.

 

[chicago]

Thanks Jack!
Ill be calling you regarding this!

I do have one more question...
You had mentioned at one of the meetings that youd do a SBC with with TBI, vs the vortec.
Are you still of that opinion?
Having been pricing the vortecs and the SBC with TBI's....the SBCs are MUCH cheaper.
However, I dont wanna do one motor, and wish I had done another.
Do you get where Im going with this?

My cheap ass is thinking alterantely.

However, If the Vortec is the BETTER option long term...I will do whats best.

What do you think?

K

 

[rusty_tlc]

If you want a visual on how crawl boxes are set up you can come look at my rig anytime.

When looking for a motor keep in mind the DMV wants you to use the same year or newer engine when you do a swap. And they want all the smog devices in place. How they police this I don't know, Shawn may have some insight into that since he has done two V8 transplants.

 

[chicago]

If you want a visual on how crawl boxes are set up you can come look at my rig anytime.

When looking for a motor keep in mind the DMV wants you to use the same year or newer engine when you do a swap. And they want all the smog devices in place. How they police this I don't know, Shawn may have some insight into that since he has done two V8 transplants.

I was gonna swing by yesterday, but I didnt have my phone with me, and I didnt want to drop in un announced...
Im planning on doing this as eco conscience as possible, but Im registered in Carson so I dont have to smog YET!

Id love to hear more from Shawn on this....

K

 

[rusty_tlc]

I was gonna swing by yesterday, but I didnt have my phone with me, and I didnt want to drop in un announced...
Im planning on doing this as eco conscience as possible, but Im registered in Carson so I dont have to smog YET!

Id love to hear more from Shawn on this....

K

We were at Mom's.

 

[locrwln1]

Ok Keith, I found a post on Pirate that was talking about whether to use a 700r4 vs. 4l60e behind a LSx motor. There are some other differences that I was not aware of.

700R4 to LS1 - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board

Jack

 

[chicago]

Im starting to get a clearer picture as to what I want and need to do.
I started a thread in the 60's board and got some GREAT info there. I even got a little side tracked by investigating KEEPING the 3FE and swapping in a manual, but the cost to rebuild the 3FE is RIDICULUS for the master kit, and swapping in a USED 4 speed with a marlin box isnt cheap either...
When all was said and done, Id actually be saving a bit doing the V8 with a crawl box...
So, Im gonna buy components as they come up and as I can afford them.
It may take couple of years to amass all that is needed, but...
that is my goal from here.

Thanks for the link Jack!

K

 

[CaliCruiser]

Not to irritate you about the possibility of a manual, but you can have my h42 for free for the conversion. I had no idea that those master kits were so expen$ive!

Dylan

 

[chicago]

Not to irritate you about the possibility of a manual, but you can have my h42 for free for the conversion. I had no idea that those master kits were so expen$ive!

Dylan

Thanks D!
I appreciate the offer, but Im gonna stick with the auto. Thus far its worked very well and the rig is set up for it. Plus, going manual with the vortec tacks on a bunch more money to the swap.
I too had no idea that the rebuild kits would be that much. That is nearly 3X the amount for the cost of a master kit for an SBC...
BRUTAL!
If the motor had less miles and was a little more PERKY, Id probably do the manual conversion and gears and wait on the V8.

When are you wheel-able again?

K

 

[Bbumbl40]

Did hear a smog question? If you ask three different people, you'll get three different answers. I went the simplest way I could. Look for the SMOG sticker in your engine bay. It'll list all the pieces that are required, like: EGR, charcoal canister, cat., air injection, fuel vapor return and etc. Make sure you collect all these pieces from your doner vehicle or collect them up before you start. Having it all at the start makes it easier to plan out the layout of the engine bay.