V8 Time!

[chicago]

Im now officially in the market for a Vortec V8.
Anyone have any tips where I might be able to source on locally for a decent price.
Ive been diggin around on Craigslist and found a couple higher mileage ones that I suspect would need a rebuild. Has anyone done a rebuild on one of these engines? Its it EXTREMELY hard to do? Ive seen a couple for really CHEAP is the reason I ask, and I wouldnt mind learning how to do a rebuild, and save a couple bucks in the process. Im not too savvy on bone yard pull outs and how those work...
Also in the market for a 700R4 tranny for this conversion as Id be able to run a reduction box behind it where a 4L60E, I DONT THINK, does not have options for low gears.
Im just learning, so consider that I know virtually NOTHING about what Im looking for/ doing!

Thanks in advance for any advice and help!

K

 

[DesertLake]

Which vortec do you plan to use? There's a lot of them. To me the 5700 seems a natural choice because it is closely related to the old 350 (actually it's the last 350), but there are newer engines with better performance too.

 

[rusty_tlc]

Why not go H55?

It's what all the Kool Kids do.

 

[DesertLake]

Why not go H55?

It's what all the Kool Kids do.

Or NV4500!

(That way I'll know someone that's tried it before I decide...)

 

[spressomon]

Find a 327...more torque since it is not as square of an engine. But either way I think you're going to love it!!!

 

[locrwln1]

Vortecs (5700's) are nice but they only made them for a few years...

LSx is where it's at. Those are the later model GM's (4800, 5300 and 6000) or you could find one out of a Corvette or the last years of the F-body (camaro/firebird) The corvette/f-bodyied ones are aluminium. Get a cam out of a corvette, tune the ECU and make some serious power out of the 5.3/6.0 versions. They have been putting them in truck/suv's since '99. A lot more common and a lot more products for them. The stock bottom end on those motors support 650 hp all day long. The vortec's don't even come close.

Now as far as tranny, that is up to you. The 700r4 is a non electronic controlled one. The 4l60 is essentially the same tranny only electronically controlled. There are some other upgrades, but essentially the tailshaft/adapter should be the same. Adapters for pretty much any t-case made are available for both trannies including the t-case in the 80/100's.

Reno Auto Wrecking on west 4th street has a ton of the motors and trannies to choose from. The do a compression check and everything to make sure they are good motors. Most of the newer GM motors are 200k+ motors now.

This should be fun.

Jack

 

[Bbumbl40]

You'll have fun with this. I'm happy with my little 5L TBI's. They've got plenty of power and are doing fairly good on gas. Almost any motor you chose will be batter on the road than what you've got. I'll pm you with some ideas and details.

 

[locrwln1]

Here is a link that pretty much will answer any question you might have. While there aren't too many swaps into a LC. The people on there have swapped them into pretty much everything else so some of it applies.

LS1 Performance Information - Powered by vBulletin

Jack

 

[chicago]

Thanks for the input gents!
As far as motor selection, Im looking for a basic stock vortec motor of the 5.3L variety. I dont wanna go TOO big with the ponies. Remember, Im just trying to make it more comfotable to drive on the street, to and from the trails. Its seems to me that the more power you throw into it, more likely youll start breaking other stuff? Am I right, or way off base? However, this project is still in the design stage, so...the biggest factor will be COST! The whole thing is gonna be dependent on the cost I can get the engine for.
As far as swapping in a manual tranny...I dont see much point in doing it if I will have gearing options available with an auto. the H55 is a SPENDY conversion, and the chevy auto tranny is reasonably cheap...HALF the price cheap, and I wouldnt have to add all the clutch components, pedal etc. which when I priced it out with the cost of the tranny...it was around 2.5K for the whole deal. Add that with the cost of the engine conversion....Too rich for my blood. Plus, I like wheeling an auto. I may be a wuss for that, but thats OK!
Anyone re built one of these motors.
Do you see any reason to go with a TBI vs. multi port?
I dont know too much about this, so Im learning everything I can to make a smart decison.

Keep it coming boyz. Im really feeding on the input!

K

 

[chicago]

Vortecs (5700's) are nice but they only made them for a few years...

LSx is where it's at. Those are the later model GM's (4800, 5300 and 6000) or you could find one out of a Corvette or the last years of the F-body (camaro/firebird) The corvette/f-bodyied ones are aluminium. Get a cam out of a corvette, tune the ECU and make some serious power out of the 5.3/6.0 versions. They have been putting them in truck/suv's since '99. A lot more common and a lot more products for them. The stock bottom end on those motors support 650 hp all day long. The vortec's don't even come close.

Now as far as tranny, that is up to you. The 700r4 is a non electronic controlled one. The 4l60 is essentially the same tranny only electronically controlled. There are some other upgrades, but essentially the tailshaft/adapter should be the same. Adapters for pretty much any t-case made are available for both trannies including the t-case in the 80/100's.

Reno Auto Wrecking on west 4th street has a ton of the motors and trannies to choose from. The do a compression check and everything to make sure they are good motors. Most of the newer GM motors are 200k+ motors now.

This should be fun.

Jack

Jack,
Can you break down what you stated above regarding the trannies. Electronic vs. non. I kinda get what youre saying, but what are the advantages one over the other?

K

 

[spressomon]

Thanks for the input gents!
As far as motor selection, Im looking for a basic stock vortec motor of the 5.3L variety. I dont wanna go TOO big with the ponies. Remember, Im just trying to make it more comfotable to drive on the street, to and from the trails. Its seems to me that the more power you throw into it, more likely youll start breaking other stuff? Am I right, or way off base? However, this project is still in the design stage, so...the biggest factor will be COST! The whole thing is gonna be dependent on the cost I can get the engine for.
As far as swapping in a manual tranny...I dont see much point in doing it if I will have gearing options available with an auto. the H55 is a SPENDY conversion, and the chevy auto tranny is reasonably cheap...HALF the price cheap, and I wouldnt have to add all the clutch components, pedal etc. which when I priced it out with the cost of the tranny...it was around 2.5K for the whole deal. Add that with the cost of the engine conversion....Too rich for my blood. Plus, I like wheeling an auto. I may be a wuss for that, but thats OK!
Anyone re built one of these motors.
Do you see any reason to go with a TBI vs. multi port?
I dont know too much about this, so Im learning everything I can to make a smart decison.

Keep it coming boyz. Im really feeding on the input!

K

Well...I could be way off base here but from what I know about the 5.3L it was developed because the 350 was on the dirty side (exhaust). You need to up the RPM's on this engine to get to any real usable amount of torque for heavy rigs.

I believe at 2,750(!) you're at 190ftlbs of torque (not exactly crawl speed!)...and you gotta push this engine to 4,200rpm to get it's max torque rating of 283ftlbs.

 

[rusty_tlc]

Thanks for the input gents!
As far as motor selection, Im looking for a basic stock vortec motor of the 5.3L variety. I dont wanna go TOO big with the ponies. Remember, Im just trying to make it more comfotable to drive on the street, to and from the trails. Its seems to me that the more power you throw into it, more likely youll start breaking other stuff? Am I right, or way off base? However, this project is still in the design stage, so...the biggest factor will be COST! The whole thing is gonna be dependent on the cost I can get the engine for.
As far as swapping in a manual tranny...I dont see much point in doing it if I will have gearing options available with an auto. the H55 is a SPENDY conversion, and the chevy auto tranny is reasonably cheap...HALF the price cheap, and I wouldnt have to add all the clutch components, pedal etc. which when I priced it out with the cost of the tranny...it was around 2.5K for the whole deal. Add that with the cost of the engine conversion....Too rich for my blood. Plus, I like wheeling an auto. I may be a wuss for that, but thats OK!
Anyone re built one of these motors.
Do you see any reason to go with a TBI vs. multi port?
I dont know too much about this, so Im learning everything I can to make a smart decison.

Keep it coming boyz. Im really feeding on the input!

K

Yeah people might think you were compensating or something.


I know next to nothing about autos. How will the gearing change between the stock auto tranny and a GM auto tranny?

 

[locrwln1]

I had a '99 GMC 1/2 ton with the 5.3 and loved it. My mother-in-law has a '03 Tahoe with the 5.3 and it pulls that truck around like it's not even there and gets about 17mpg doing it.

Just some more specs to linger over.

Vortec 5300 5.3L V-8
(LM7/L33/L59) What's
New View Photo
Select Avalanche Escalade 2WD Flexible Fuel Chevrolet Express 1500/2500 Flexible Fuel Savana 1500/2500 Sierra Sierra PHT Silverado Silverado PHT Suburban Tahoe Yukon Yukon XL Performance Plot
Select Avalanche Escalade 2WD Express 1500/2500 Savana 1500/2500 Sierra Silverado Silverado PHT Suburban Tahoe Yukon Yukon XL
Type: 5.3L V-8
Displacement: 5328cc (325 ci)
Compression ratio: 9.5:1
Bore x stroke: 96.01 x 92mm
Fuel system: sequential fuel injection
Horsepower: 295 hp @ 5200 for 1500 Sierra and Silverado including FlexPower (PHT) (LM7)
(revised 6/24/03) 295 hp @ 5200 rpm Yukon and Tahoe (L59/LM7)
295 hp @ 5200 rpm Yukon XL and Suburban (L59/LM7)
295 hp @ 5200 rpm Savana and Express (LM7)
295 hp @ 5200 rpm Escalade (LM7)
295 hp @ 5200 rpm Avalanche (LM7)

Torque: 335 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm for 1500 Sierra and Silverado including FlexPower (PHT) (LM7)
(revised 6/24/03) 335 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm Yukon and Tahoe (L59/LM7)
335 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm Yukon XL and Suburban (L59/LM7)
335 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm Savana and Express (LM7)
335 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm Escalade (LM7)
335 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm Avalanche (LM7)
335 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm Sierra and Silverado (L33)
Fuel Shut Off: 5900 rpm with automatic transmission and electronic throttle control (LM7/L59)



Vortec 5300 5.3L V-8
(L33) What's
New View Photo
Select Extended Cab Silverado Extended Cab Sierra Performance Plot
Select Sierra Extended Cab Sierra Extended Cab
Type: 5.3L V-8
Displacement: 5328cc (325 ci)
Compression ratio: 9.9:1
Horsepower: 310 hp ( 231kw ) @ 5200 rpm
335 lb-ft ( 454Nm ) @ 4000 rpm
Fuel Shut Off: 6000 rpm with automatic transmission and electronic throttle control


Vortec 5300 Gen IV V8
(LH6 ) What's
New View Photo
Select Envoy Envoy Denali XL Rainier Performance Plot
Select Envoy Envoy Denali XL Rainier
Type:
5.3L V-8 Small Block

Displacement:
5328 cc (325 ci)

Compression ratio:
9.95:1


Horsepower:
300 hp (224 kw) @ 5200 rpm

Torque:
330 lb-ft (447 Nm) @ 4000 rpm

Fuel shut off:
5750 rpm

Applications:
Chevrolet Trailblazer, Trailblazer EXT

GMC Envoy, Envoy XL, Envoy XUV

Buick Rainier

Saab 9-7X

Isuzu Ascender

MATERIALS

Block:
cast aluminum

Cylinder head:
cast aluminum



Jack

 

[spressomon]

Weird. I drove my buddy's 2002 Suburban with the 5.3L and it was a dog. Driving, for instance, up to Tahoe Meadows you had to be sure the RPMs were up there to keep it climbing; it was either under lugging or hi-revving; seemed like it lacked torque.

 

[locrwln1]

Weird. I drove my buddy's 2002 Suburban with the 5.3L and it was a dog. Driving, for instance, up to Tahoe Meadows you had to be sure the RPMs were up there to keep it climbing; it was either under lugging or hi-revving; seemed like it lacked torque.

That is weird. I even towed with my truck fully loaded and a trailer with my Jeep on it from here to Moab and back and it pulled just fine. All of the others that I have driven will get it no matter where or what speed you were going. Now I will agree that they are more of a higher rpm motor, but according to everything I have read/experienced, they have a fairly flat torque curve. I have towed with a 5.7tbi/regular cab/2wd with a lighter load and it didn't even compare to my 5.3/ex-cab/4x4.

For Keith, he will basically be doubling his HP and adding over 100lb/ft of torque to his experience.

I will take a higher hp motor and compensate offroad with gearing any day. In the old days, low down torque was needed to make up for lack of gearing, now with crawler boxes and the t-case choices, it's not as important. Just look at the 4cyl toyota mini's, no torque but with crazy gearing, it's not really an issue.

Keith the 700r4 is like an older tranny in that the shifts are controlled by a vacumn. Only the torque converter is electronically controlled. The 4l60e is fully electronically controlled, also in the later model versions, the bell housing bolts on and the tail section added more bolts. The tail shaft is the same, but the adapter changed to reflect the added bolts/pattern.

Jack

 

[spressomon]

That is weird. I even towed with my truck fully loaded and a trailer with my Jeep on it from here to Moab and back and it pulled just fine. All of the others that I have driven will get it no matter where or what speed you were going. Now I will agree that they are more of a higher rpm motor, but according to everything I have read/experienced, they have a fairly flat torque curve. I have towed with a 5.7tbi/regular cab/2wd with a lighter load and it didn't even compare to my 5.3/ex-cab/4x4.

For Keith, he will basically be doubling his HP and adding over 100lb/ft of torque to his experience.

I will take a higher hp motor and compensate offroad with gearing any day. In the old days, low down torque was needed to make up for lack of gearing, now with crawler boxes and the t-case choices, it's not as important. Just look at the 4cyl toyota mini's, no torque but with crazy gearing, it's not really an issue.

Keith the 700r4 is like an older tranny in that the shifts are controlled by a vacumn. Only the torque converter is electronically controlled. The 4l60e is fully electronically controlled, also in the later model versions, the bell housing bolts on and the tail section added more bolts. The tail shaft is the same, but the adapter changed to reflect the added bolts/pattern.

Jack

Good point Jack about using gearing to make up for higher RPM torque curve. And as you mentioned the 5.3L is pretty decent on gas for what it is.

 

[rusty_tlc]

......

I will take a higher hp motor and compensate offroad with gearing any day. In the old days, low down torque was needed to make up for lack of gearing, now with crawler boxes and the t-case choices, it's not as important. Just look at the 4cyl toyota mini's, no torque but with crazy gearing, it's not really an issue......

Jack

Nothing like the whine of a dual cased mini on an obstacle.

What t-case oprions are there?I seem to remember that there was a problem going dual t-cases with the auto in a 62.

 

[chicago]

That is weird. I even towed with my truck fully loaded and a trailer with my Jeep on it from here to Moab and back and it pulled just fine. All of the others that I have driven will get it no matter where or what speed you were going. Now I will agree that they are more of a higher rpm motor, but according to everything I have read/experienced, they have a fairly flat torque curve. I have towed with a 5.7tbi/regular cab/2wd with a lighter load and it didn't even compare to my 5.3/ex-cab/4x4.

For Keith, he will basically be doubling his HP and adding over 100lb/ft of torque to his experience.

I will take a higher hp motor and compensate offroad with gearing any day. In the old days, low down torque was needed to make up for lack of gearing, now with crawler boxes and the t-case choices, it's not as important. Just look at the 4cyl toyota mini's, no torque but with crazy gearing, it's not really an issue.

Keith the 700r4 is like an older tranny in that the shifts are controlled by a vacumn. Only the torque converter is electronically controlled. The 4l60e is fully electronically controlled, also in the later model versions, the bell housing bolts on and the tail section added more bolts. The tail shaft is the same, but the adapter changed to reflect the added bolts/pattern.

Jack

So which is BETTER?
I was looking at the 700R4 exclusively for the gearing options that can be run with it, but what your saying, the 4L60E should have the same options...correct? Someone also mentioned that you can buy some after market items to make the 700R basically bullet proof. Do you know anything about that? The one problem Ive heard with the 700R is that it has a Lock up? but AA makes a bypass for it.
Im NOT steadfast against the use of a manual, however it would be additional work and cost to do it. But if anyone can forsee a reason I should look into this futher, by all means...lemme hear it. As I said, Im trying to make the best long term choices when doing this.
Just so you all know...I WILL be asking for your assistance at some point if you all are game!? This will be a HUGE undertaking for me, and I guarantee that anyone here know a TON more on this topic than I do!
Specifically, what motor should I be looking really HARD for? Should I consider to rebuild it myself, or should that be done by a pro like the gears?

Thanks for those specs Jack! Im not too sure what they all mean, but your endorsement on the 5.3 makes me feel pretty good.

K

 

[chicago]

Nothing like the whine of a dual cased mini on an obstacle.

What t-case oprions are there?I seem to remember that there was a problem going dual t-cases with the auto in a 62.

Correct. There are NO OPTIONS for low gearing for the A440F tranny, with exception of the marks gears. That is one of the main reasons folks are swapping in the H55's for the 62's, that and to free up the 15-20 ponies that are lost through the torque converter. Brett T ran the 4 speed with a marlin box and 4.11's. For that installed I think he paid over 6K.
I had considered this insted of the V8, but in the end, its a lot of dough and I still may be wanting more from the 3F than it can give.
Im thinking that the V8 is gonna get me where I want to be.
Brokenparts has a TBI chevy set up with the 700R behind it with a reduction box. I do still have to investigate what options there are for the t cases.

Lots to consider!

K

 

[locrwln1]

Nothing like the whine of a dual cased mini on an obstacle.

What t-case oprions are there?I seem to remember that there was a problem going dual t-cases with the auto in a 62.

For the 700r4/4l60e, pick a t-case. Pretty much any t-case you would want to use, there is an adapter to the 700r4/4l60e.

So which is BETTER?
I was looking at the 700R4 exclusively for the gearing options that can be run with it, but what your saying, the 4L60E should have the same options...correct? Someone also mentioned that you can buy some after market items to make the 700R basically bullet proof. Do you know anything about that? The one problem Ive heard with the 700R is that it has a Lock up? but AA makes a bypass for it.
Im NOT steadfast against the use of a manual, however it would be additional work and cost to do it. But if anyone can forsee a reason I should look into this futher, by all means...lemme hear it. As I said, Im trying to make the best long term choices when doing this.
Just so you all know...I WILL be asking for your assistance at some point if you all are game!? This will be a HUGE undertaking for me, and I guarantee that anyone here know a TON more on this topic than I do!
Specifically, what motor should I be looking really HARD for? Should I consider to rebuild it myself, or should that be done by a pro like the gears?

Thanks for those specs Jack! Im not too sure what they all mean, but your endorsement on the 5.3 makes me feel pretty good.

K

The gearing options should be the same for either. The gears in the tranny are the same, the tail shaft is the same, a lot of the parts interchange.

Bowtie Overdrives

They can build you anything you want. Now having said that pick up a tranny from the junkyard when you get your motor and when you have the ECU re-programmed to get rid of the anti-theft and other things you need for the swap, they can program it for the tranny you are using and any modifications you want for that.

I would do the auto. Both of my rockcrawlers have been manuals with and without gearing. Auto's are more forgiving and less fatigueing.

As far as rebuilding. You shouldn't need to. Get a low mile motor and enjoy it. Unless something really bad happened to the motor, the newer ones just won't need it.

I have friends that have dealt with 4th street auto wrecking and they understand motor swaps, so they make sure the compression is in specs and everything needed is included. Every wire, sensor, etc. you need.

There are plenty of companies that will do the wire harness/reprogram at a very reasonable price.

Correct. There are NO OPTIONS for low gearing for the A440F tranny, with exception of the marks gears. That is one of the main reasons folks are swapping in the H55's for the 62's, that and to free up the 15-20 ponies that are lost through the torque converter. Brett T ran the 4 speed with a marlin box and 4.11's. For that installed I think he paid over 6K.
I had considered this insted of the V8, but in the end, its a lot of dough and I still may be wanting more from the 3F than it can give.
Im thinking that the V8 is gonna get me where I want to be.
Brokenparts has a TBI chevy set up with the 700R behind it with a reduction box. I do still have to investigate what options there are for the t cases.

Lots to consider!

K

On t-cases behind a 700r4/4l60e, do you want an orion, crawler box, 203 reduction box, LC t-case, atlas, any Dana, pretty much name it and you can put it behind one?

Jack