V35A-FTS bearing issue? (25 Viewers)

[rexington14]

All three of those items are easily identified in a PPI, including the quality of the trans fluid. Known issues with known causes and known solutions.

In particular with a PPI of the trans, sure, I guess you could warm the engine to spec, quickly pull the transmission overflow plug, and quickly replace it, to get a sample of the fluid. Although, this happening in a PPI is surprising to me... good luck convincing a private seller to let you do this. (Unless there is a better way to sample the fluid on a sealed transmission?)

Regardless, all your doing at that point is "eyeballing" the fluid that it's not cooked black. Hardly a scientific analysis of the fluid's condition or wear metals detected that only a company like Blackstone could provide.

And with the other items, given the context of long term, out of warranty reliability... just because the problem isn't discovered at the time of sale, doesn't mean it won't become a problem in the future. As you say, these issues are well known to occur.

 

[CarcaineProblems]

What a bunch of “Sky is falling” and “world is ending” worry warts. You sound like a bunch of old women. Warranty for 50k+ miles. By then this all shakes out

Worry never robs tomorrow of its sorrow, it only saps today of its joy.

 

[ikarus]

What a bunch of “Sky is falling” and “world is ending” worry warts. You sound like a bunch of old women. Warranty for 50k+ miles. By then this all shakes out

Worry never robs tomorrow of its sorrow, it only saps today of its joy.

To be fair I think everyone is surprised at the amount of failures seen in the Tundras. Uncharacteristic of Toyota. The only similar cases I can think of are the oiling issues and engine failures on the 3rd gen Tacoma when on a steep incline, or the FRS/86 oil issues on the track. So when a new engine comes out and there are a significant amount of failures - about 50 documented on tundras.com alone - it makes sense why it weirds people out. When was the last time there were multiple threads/posts/stories of catastrophic engine failure for 200s? or 5th Gen T4R? or 1st or 2nd Gen Tacoma? 70 Series, 100 Series, GX, LX, you name it. Let alone within the first 1-3 years of a vehicle's life.

Having said that I drove several '24 Tundras and I loved them. It's a great powertrain. I bet it will be nice in a GX. But I like to do my own work and really dislike dealers and waiting for repairs and ubering back and forth and fighting the warranty people etc. so I decided to go with a '21 Tundra instead.

 

[Rednexus]

What a bunch of “Sky is falling” and “world is ending” worry warts. You sound like a bunch of old women. Warranty for 50k+ miles. By then this all shakes out

Worry never robs tomorrow of its sorrow, it only saps today of its joy.

I'm not worrying as I own a GX470 . If folks want to drop $80k on one of these and not worry either, that is fine! But, as mentioned above it's uncharacteristic for Toyota so it will be interesting to see how this shakes out over the next few years.

 

[UZJ100LC]

In general, I'm not a fan of extended warranties and in the past would never buy one on a Toyota. However, you could hedge with a 7 year / 125k plan. I've it's going to throw an main, I would imagine that would happen before that time. Probably a $2,500 - $3,000 charge.

ok but what if it happens again after 125k? is the replacement somehow different and solves the problem?

 

[OregonLC]

ok but what if it happens again after 125k? is the replacement somehow different and solves the problem?

If it makes it to 125k then it's not a candidate for the current failure mode. We're currently talking about a very small percentage and those with problems all seem to occur early. This isn't like the 911 IMS or 200 radiator where 100% will fail.

 

[ikarus]

If it happens at any mileage, replacement is the same. Toyota doesn't do crate engines so it's a short block + rebuild/replace anything touched by oil. I believe standard warranty is 60 months/60,000 miles and so far it seems like most have been covered under warranty, which makes sense because most 22+ Tundras are still new and typical average car mileage is 15K/yr.

There are some guys over at the Tundra forum who are serious about tracking everything. You can see a spreadsheet outlining about 80 engine failures with verified VINs:

OFFICIAL: MY22+ Toyota Tundra V35A-FTS (Type '21) Engine Failure Questionnaire Results - 03/30/24

[ATTACH] FORM UPDATE - MARCH 30, 2024 @ 2:00pm Central CURRENT AVG MILEAGE @ FAILURE - 28,849 (46,428 KM) TOYOTA V35A-FTS (TYPE '21) ENGINE FAILURES...

www.tundras.com

3.4 I-Force engine failures.

This has been a heated debate on here and I wanted to see some statistics on some of these failures. I will update the member list in the original...

www.tundras.com

They have had 3 trucks verified to have 2 engine failures - the short block was replaced and then failed again later.

Lowest mileage failure: 4500 mi, highest mileage failure: 69,000. Unknown if the 4 failures past 60K were covered by warranty or covered by an extended warranty.

End of the day nobody knows anything for sure. There have been theories and speculation floating around for 2+ years now but it doesn't seem to matter how hard you use the truck, date of manufacture, factory defects. what type of oil, or towing. No common thread. In fact it seems to happen often to people just driving on the highway, doing nothing out of the ordinary.

You'll probably be fine buying one but there's really no way to know. They've sold almost 300K Tundras at this point so for every unlucky guy that ends up on forums and Reddit sharing their engine failure experiences there are probably 100 Tundra drivers who have never even heard of forums or engine bearings.

 

[OregonLC]

If, say, there was a catastrophic failure on a 100 or 200 at 90K miles (take away the argument of 'why' for a moment), would you have the dealer rebuild from a short block for $30K or would you source a replacement from a totaled donor? Obviously the later. So why debate an out of pocket scenario on a 550 when that isn't something that would happen in the real world anyway?

While this isn't a trivial issue, this is exactly what happens with every issue on the internet; lack of real information causes wild speculation and always terminates with worst-case outcomes. The only thing we know at the moment is there have been a very small percentage of engines in the Tundra and 600 that have failed. We do not know the 'why' nor do we know what changes Toyota is making. What we do know is that Toyota has a reputation for doing thing right and building things that last. Everything at this point is speculation.

 

[rexington14]

The powertrain warranty is even better on the 550 than the Tundra. Lexus's 6yr / 70k vs Toyota's 5yr / 60k. Also, any replacement repair typically comes with another warranty on the work, independent and supplemental of the original powertrain warranty, further protecting against the even rarer case of multiple failures.

The $30k number being thrown around (mostly for generating "fear factor") is what the dealership charges Toyota for the warranty work. To say that a customer is destined to pay this out of pocket should this failure occur after warranty is just inaccurate. Like most automotive work, the majority of that figure is going to be labor costs. The Toyota dealership will not be the only ones capable or willing to do this repair, and other repair options will likely become available (like an engine swap).

 

[M1911]

I could keep my spot on the waiting list for an OT at MSRP, but no clue when that might come. Cost would be roughly $75k, lots of power, very good infotainment system, similar room to my 200. But then there is the worry about near and long-term reliability.

I could try to get on a waiting list for a 250, but the dealers around here are asking for $5k - $10k ADM and at that price why not just get a 550 instead?

I've found a 2022 GX 460 nearby. I would need to remove the third row and put in a platform to get enough room. I worry that putting in a platform would increase the noise level in the interior. Then I would have to deal with the barn door and worry about the valley plate leak and transmission issues. Upside is the smooth V8 and more manageable exterior size. Downside is the 4.6L V8 isn't exactly powerful.

I've found a 2020 LX 570 not too far away. Cost would be $70k. I would have to budget for a Beatsonic kit to get Apple CarPlay. Then I would have the complication of AHC. I have an extra set of 18" wheels and tires in the basement, so I could remove the stupid 21" wheels. And it has the stupid "mouse" controller instead of a touch screen.

Used Land Cruisers are stupidly expensive.

Decisions, decisions. I don't know what I'm going to do.

 

[OGBeno]

So 80 or so verified engines out of over 200000 manufactured for the Tundra in the US market?

Are you all on drugs?

 

[OregonLC]

@M1911 I'm in the same boat. Hard justifying a $70k spend on a 4 year-old 570 with ancient tech and 13 mpg. I decided to put $10k or so into refreshing my 2013 and 'dance with the girl I brought' for a few more years until the supply/demand curve settles and there becomes better data on the V35A problems. Perhaps 2026 will be a 'December to Remember' at Lexus of Portland.

 

[ikarus]

So 80 or so verified engines out of over 200000 manufactured for the Tundra in the US market?

Are you all on drugs?

You would have an aneurysm sifting through the hundreds of pages of “discussion” on the issue over at the tundra forum

 

[Blackford Oakes]

I've found a 2020 LX 570 not too far away. Cost would be $70k. I would have to budget for a Beatsonic kit to get Apple CarPlay. Then I would have the complication of AHC. I have an extra set of 18" wheels and tires in the basement, so I could remove the stupid 21" wheels.

I'm an advocate for this. I don't own a Lexus, but we know with occasional maintenance AHC is a pretty stout and reliable system.

 

[OregonLC]

So 80 or so verified engines out of over 200000 manufactured for the Tundra in the US market? Are you all on drugs?

I agree that YouTube/Socials/Forums make it sound like it's a much more likely scenario. But in fairness It could be 80, 800, or 8,000. Internet postings are only a subset of the actual cases. Early main bearing failures should be zero for a Toyota.

The attitude of 'Are you all on drugs' really adds nothing to the discussion other than to make you sound like a fanboy. Post up some real empirical data before climbing on the podium.

 

[OSS]

While my 1986 2F engine with 330K miles keeps on running fine

 

[M1911]

@M1911 I'm in the same boat. Hard justifying a $70k spend on a 4 year-old 570 with ancient tech and 13 mpg. I decided to put $10k or so into refreshing my 2013 and 'dance with the girl I brought' for a few more years until the supply/demand curve settles and there becomes better data on the V35A problems. Perhaps 2026 will be a 'December to Remember' at Lexus of Portland.

That's not an option for me, due to rust.

 

[M1911]

I'm an advocate for this. I don't own a Lexus, but we know with occasional maintenance AHC is a pretty stout and reliable system.

What is the required maintenance? Just replacing the AHC fluid every 60k miles? Obviously, if lines rust out or globes die, then things have to be replaced.

 

[Blackford Oakes]

What is the required maintenance? Just replacing the AHC fluid every 60k miles? Obviously, if lines rust out or globes die, then things have to be replaced.

Changing fluid and replacing the four globes was what came to mind.

 

[Rednexus]

If, say, there was a catastrophic failure on a 100 or 200 at 90K miles (take away the argument of 'why' for a moment), would you have the dealer rebuild from a short block for $30K or would you source a replacement from a totaled donor? Obviously the later. So why debate an out of pocket scenario on a 550 when that isn't something that would happen in the real world anyway?

The supply of good used URs and UZs drastically out-paces demand as the engines do not have random catastrophic failures and there are lots of wrecked or rusted out vehicles available in salvage yards due to the long production lifespan. UZs in particular also very tolerant of poor maintenance and only usually killed by an overheat, broken T-belt, or hydro lock situation (owner/operator error, not a flaw with the design of the engine).

So, yes if I needed a new UZ I would buy a low-mileage example for around $1,800, which is what they are going for, as the cost is low and risk of the engine having problems is also low. I would also DIY the swap in my garage with my engine hoist and that part would probably take me 2-3 days.

If the main bearing problem on the VA35F turns out to be chronic the demand for used engines will out-strip supply and prices for used engines will be much higher. Additionally, I am betting that a VA35F will be nowhere near as tolerant of poor maintenance as a UZ, so there will be a higher risk in getting a used engine with significant problems. And, the job looks about an order of magnitude less DIY friendly than a UZ swap.

So, not an apples-to-apples comparison. We are in un-chartered territory with totally new engine technology that is a complete departure from the UZs we've had since 1998 and URs we've had since 2007.