upgraded brakes

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65swb45

65swb45

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marksoffroad.net
Nothing like having a bud suffer a devastating loss to shake you back into reality.

I've been daily driving the lwb for something like 12 years now with the original brake system. I do my adjustements every few months, replace the shoes as necessary and turn the drums to keep them from glazing. I admit I finally got complacent about the sufficiency of the system, even though I'd decided years ago that I would upgrade to a dual circuit master.

A few days after Gene's accident, a little lightbulb went off in my head and I remembered that I too had experienced a serious brake failure with a single circuit master. I lost all brakes on my '40 back in '92 when a rear cylinder failed. Downhill, off-road!

I was fortunate to only be going 25 at the time, and a quick downshift, along with killing the engine got me stopped before I ran out of road. I think this is what influenced my decision to make the adapters in the first place that I put on the swb when I built it up later that year.

So last Thursday it was back to the drill press to knock out 4 more. Very simple plates with one big hole for the master, 3 to match the early bolt pattern and 4 for the later. With a couple of swagelock connectors I got from Downey, the swap was in in under an hour and a quick bleed later, dual circuit. I split the front from the rear at the point where the original line wraps around the battery tray. Capped the forward section off [with the welder for now], and turned the rearward section up to meet the new line behind the 4wd control box. Now that line is out of the way, I will be able to install my dual battery tray I've been hanging on to for 14 YEARS!
MVC-004F.webp
MVC-005F.webp
 
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And yes, the pedal does feel different. Not firmer, just different.

EVERYONE should think about this. There are no clearance issues without a booster involved, and no worries about overwhelming the banjo fitted wheel cylinders either.

:cheers:
 
there are many people looking for a plate like that for their own conversions....you may want to offer that plate as a kit for others...a very necessary upgrade

nice job
 
Mark, where is the booster? Or are you just using the dual circuit master cylinder without a booster and keeping the drums on all wheels?
 
cruiser_guy said:
Mark, where is the booster? Or are you just using the dual circuit master cylinder without a booster and keeping the drums on all wheels?
Click to expand...

I am not running a booster. I have not needed one on the swb these last 15 years, and haven't really had any problems stopping the 40 or the lwb with the single circuit as long as I keep up on the maintainance. It was and is just a safety thing.

The adapters are listed for sale somewhere on my website, I'm just not sure where!:doh:

Best

Mark A.
 
Mark; looked for the adaptors on your website and drew a blank also....will not drive a single circuit vehicle; had a very bad accident many years ago with a single circuit system failure.....not a damn thing to do but pull for all might on the ebrake??!! and pray!

Lou
 
65swb45 said:
I am not running a booster. I have not needed one on the swb these last 15 years, and haven't really had any problems stopping the 40 or the lwb with the single circuit as long as I keep up on the maintainance. It was and is just a safety thing.
Click to expand...

OK, just checking. I'd have been upset if I did the whole firewall thing for disc brakes last week to discover there is a much easier way. Obviously this solution only works for drum brakes on all 4 corners.
 
No, it works for discs front too! I would recommend a smallish(3/4") bore master... I made a plate similar to it, and used an early 80's corolla master(very similar to FJ60) and stock FJ40 calipers on the front on my FJ45 LWB. Stopping took effort, but less than the single circuit.
 
good reason

cruiser_guy said:
OK, just checking. I'd have been upset if I did the whole firewall thing for disc brakes last week to discover there is a much easier way. Obviously this solution only works for drum brakes on all 4 corners.
Click to expand...

I think you did good charles. Especially if the Mrs. is driving the rig, or one of the boys. You can easily source the vacuum canister off a mini truck or parts cruiser and adapter an appropriate master cylinder.
 
Though I disagree with cruiserbrett on this point, it brings up an interesting thought.

If you ever wanted to know how HARD it would be to stop a 5000# plus rig with disc brakes, you could try unplugging the booster on an FJ60 temporarily. I am not advocating anyone doing this unless it is in a VERY CONTROLLED environment. The point is you would have a better understanding of the dramatic difference in stopping power, both for the lack of the booster and for the additional force the discs require.

IMO, ....[all other things being equal-e.g. organic pads/shoes, non-glazed rotors/drums] ......a properly adjusted, single circuit, all drum brake cruiser will stop faster than a non boosted dual master stopping discs. Simple mathematics: brake shoes have twice the contact area as disc pads.

JUST MY OPINION.

Mark A.
 
That is correct. When building hot rods etc, I will put 12" drums at each corner with a dual circuit for a period look and style. It will damn near throw you out of the car when you stomp on it. That being said discs brakes help with stopping in a straight line and don't overheat as fast.

All this being said give me 4 wheel disc with dual circuits boosted any day...


-bully
 
if you are looking for power brakes on a conversion system....you may want to try a hydroboost made by Lockheed...when working as a brit car/truck tech....we put these on alot of vehicles...very noticable added power as i recall...and never a comeback AFAIK.

they run the brake line into it and boost it (vac)...kinda simple from what i remember...but this would give you the added boost needed for front disk brakes.

never tried on a cruiser....i have always had a dual sys...but if anybody has access to a used one or new for that matter....you may want to try it.

i'll see if i can find a site
 
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65swb45 said:
Though I disagree with cruiserbrett on this point, it brings up an interesting thought.

If you ever wanted to know how HARD it would be to stop a 5000# plus rig with disc brakes, you could try unplugging the booster on an FJ60 temporarily. I am not advocating anyone doing this unless it is in a VERY CONTROLLED environment. The point is you would have a better understanding of the dramatic difference in stopping power, both for the lack of the booster and for the additional force the discs require.

IMO, ....[all other things being equal-e.g. organic pads/shoes, non-glazed rotors/drums] ......a properly adjusted, single circuit, all drum brake cruiser will stop faster than a non boosted dual master stopping discs. Simple mathematics: brake shoes have twice the contact area as disc pads.

JUST MY OPINION.

Mark A.
Click to expand...

Is it not also true that drums tend to increase the braking forces simply because the wheels are turning while the brakes are applied kind of levering the shoes against the drums, something that doesn't happen with discs.

I'm NOT going to volunteer to unplug my booster on my truck! I know how much harder it is when I shut off the engine sometimes in long traffic jams and coast downhill, a few brake applications and the boost is gone and at that point you'd best be able to stomp HARD on the brake. This of course is all at less than walking speed so I'm not too worried, but at normal driving speeds....
 
Mark, I have two FJ25's to convert to dual brakes and cannot find the adapters on your website. I think I must have read every page but didn't see it, can you the post link for those of us interested in this conversion so we know the details of how to order? Thanks, Rick
 
Couldn't find it myself!:doh: Don't have the patience to update the site right now either.

The adapter is $80. Figure $10 for s&h. Send a money order and I'll send it out. Simple enough.;)
 
Thats a great simple yet effective solution :clap:

With regards to you resivoir manifold, what are the two lower cap looking parts directly below each resivoir for. I have them also on my 1978 45?

Thanks
NT
 
Disconnecting the Vac booster dosent truely give you an accurate simulation of a non-assisted disc brake system. There is a VERY large spring inside the brake booster that pushes AGAINST the pedal that the vacume overcomes. If youve ever taken apart a vac brake booster your familiar with this spring as it will take your head off when you split the case halves.

On a system designed for a boosted pedal the pedal leverage ratio is different as well as the master cylinder bore is larger than on a non-boosted brake system. (Boosted systems use a larger M/C bore or a smaller caliper piston)
On a boosted system the pedal ratio is something like 1.4-1.5:1 (going off memory here, may be way off) where a non-boosted system uses a smaller bore master and a pedal ratio of like 1.6-1.7:1

If the system is set up right an unboosted disc system is fairly easy to stop with moderate pedal effort and great feedback. Something you loose when you add a booster.

My cruiser has factory booster but will most likely get removed when I link the front in favor of a non-boosted system. Mine is a trail rig and having a non-running engine with a boosted brake system requires alot of pedal effort to stop. I want the brakes to be the same engine running or not.


Chris:cool:
 
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